Dissolution of the self

[corene]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
Two days ago the sense that I was a person dissolved and saw with crystal clarity that "I" as a self did not exist. It was astonishing, and I felt - and continue to feel - consciousness is waking up to itself. I see the old "self" as a character that was never real. So I think I have walked through the gateless gate.

What are you looking for at LU?
It would be great to share and to be guided to further widen and deepen this realization with a guide. I am fortunate to have one friend who really understands this, but having another source of support would be appreciated.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
A conversation between two no-selves talking about the nature of all. As mentioned above, there is a desire to support the continued unfoldment of the realization that happened a couple of days ago. It is quite extraordinary (and also ordinary).

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I have had a variety of practices (meditation and otherwise) over the past 15 years. I have also had a samadhi-like awakening before (where I entered unity and bliss for about 2 weeks). But this feels and is very different.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
11

[Magdalena]

Hello, Corene (is that what you want me to call you, or some other name?),

Welcome to Liberation Unleashed. My name is Magdalena and I can join you here if you like.

So, to begin with, let’s get over a couple of formalities.
Please confirm that you’ve read and are OK with the following:
1) The LU Disclaimer http://www.liberationunleashed.com/register/disclaimer/
2) The LU Terms and Conditions http://www.liberationunleashed.com/register/terms/
3) What LU is not https://www.liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041
Also, please watch this short video to learn how to use the Quote function which we will need in our conversation: viewtopic.php?t=660

Now tell me: what’s it like to be seeing what is being seen?
In other words, how is life being experienced right now?
In what ways is this

quite extraordinary (and also ordinary)?

Please answer all the questions.

[corene]

Thank you very much Magdalena. I have read and understood the terms and links you sent :) And I agree to them.

"What’s it like to be seeing what is being seen?""

At first it was like seeing everything for the very first time with a completely different perspective from what was known before. Everything was and is perceived fresh and alive, although that sense of crisp freshness and "oh wow, this is consciousness observing and sensing everything, which itself is consciousness" is now waning. This is what I meant it being extraordinary and ordinary at the same time.

"In other words, how is life being experienced right now?"

Right now, life is being experienced as a series of moments that arise and then change, all by themselves. I am perceiving the vast majority of things with a sort of detachment.

In the past week the sense of me as a person has come back "online" at certain times, especially when doing work or spending time with family. Today there was a fair amount of impatience going on with my otherwise sweet dog who was acting up. During the week there was also feeling of not wanting to speak or interact with others, and an inclination to solitude and quiet to just sit and be. For several days there was also a sensation of pressure or energy moving into my head - this has now gone.

Right now there is also an awareness of a feeling of resistance around the idea of going into the office for work tomorrow. There are also questions in the mind arising about how to "be" with other people, even though I know that will sort itself out and there is no need to worry. I have told my close family members and very close friends about the shift, but there is a sense that my family in particular don't know what to do with that information - which is fair enough! I also am not sure what to tell them. (None of them have any experience nor knowledge about non-duality and so forth).

In short, it life has been experienced as a series of flowing events and changes, sometimes with a "Corene" appearing to be "back" but most of the time a nameless being is just aware of it all.

Thank you again for your guidance!

Warmly,

Corene

[Magdalena]

Hello, Corene,


Thanks for your reply. Let me now address some of the things you mention.

… that sense of crisp freshness and "oh wow, this is consciousness observing and sensing everything, which itself is consciousness" is now waning.

Have you noticed how quick and automatic it is for thoughts to intercept the experience? I mean first comes what you refer to as “that sense of crisp freshness” and the very same moment there comes a thought trying to explain what’s happening by means of applying mental labels on top of the experience (“consciousness observing…”).

Yes, I am saying that “consciousness” is NOT part of what is experienced in the sense that consciousness is a human-made concept, or idea, residing in thought, and cannot be experienced as such. The same goes for the “samadhi” you referred to in your intro, and so much more - if not most of it. Are you with me?

It helps to be aware of what is actually being experienced (which is very simple indeed), and what is thought stuff. Nothing wrong with thought stuff, of course, but there is no need to again apply the mental veil on top of experience.

Come to think about it (ironical, isn't it?), isn’t even “crisp freshness” a mental label of sorts?

And yet we need to try and communicate things as best we can.

I am perceiving the vast majority of things with a sort of detachment.

…a nameless being is just aware of it all.

Is there a gap – any separation – between YOU (the one who’s perceiving)/that “nameless being”) and “things”/”it all”?
In your Intro, you say you want “a conversation between two no-selves”.
Is that at all doable? 😉
Don’t go to mind for an answer – just LOOK.

In the past week the sense of me as a person has come back "online" at certain times, especially when doing work or spending time with family. Today there was a fair amount of impatience going on with my otherwise sweet dog who was acting up. During the week there was also feeling of not wanting to speak or interact with others, and an inclination to solitude and quiet to just sit and be.

All of this is perfectly natural and has its place.

Or is there an expectation that things should be different than what they are?

For several days there was also a sensation of pressure or energy moving into my head - this has now gone.

Yes, these things can happen. No need to give it any meaning. Just another experience.

There are also questions in the mind arising about how to "be" with other people, even though I know that will sort itself out and there is no need to worry.

That’s true – things do sort themselves out.
But are there any expectations around this – as in, ideas about how it should be? LOOK into this.

I have told my close family members and very close friends about the shift, but there is a sense that my family in particular don't know what to do with that information - which is fair enough! I also am not sure what to tell them.

Then don’t say too much.

Why this drive to share it? Particularly with people who don’t really understand?



Now for the most important part.
What is that “sense of me as a person” made of?
That "I" as a self [which] d[oes] not exist”? That “"self" as a character that was never real”?
Where does it come from when it comes “online”? What is its nature?
Again, don’t go to mind, don’t philosophise, don’t resort to any teachings etc. that you may have heard or seen. Just LOOK.

Please answer all the questions.

[corene]

Hi again and thank you for this questions.

Is there a gap – any separation – between YOU (the one who’s perceiving)/that “nameless being”) and “things”/”it all”?

As I look, no, there is no separation. Just smooth seamlessness between whatever I perceive and my eyesight/hearing/awareness.

In your Intro, you say you want “a conversation between two no-selves”.
Is that at all doable? 😉

I have no idea!

Or is there an expectation that things should be different that what they are?

This was more to report the experience of the last week. I didn't really have much expectations at all.

Why this drive to share it? Particularly with people who don’t really understand?

With my close family it was to ask for space and solitude. (There are a lot of requests and pressure for me to spend a lot of time with them, and I didn't want to - so was honest why). I was being authentic to what felt like the right thing to do at the time. But now I know I'll just keep my experiences to myself for the most part/use more discernment.

What is that “sense of me as a person” made of?
That "I" as a self [which] d[oes] not exist”? That “"self" as a character that was never real”?
Where does it come from when it comes “online”? What is its nature?

The sense of me as a person is empty - it is just an idea or a set of stories based on memories (which now all seem to be stories/fictions). So yes, it was never real. The coming back "online" of the personality happens almost automatically as I interact with people, and people ask me questions, and I am aware of needing to respond as Corene and so on.

Where does it come from? When I look I can't find the source. What is it's nature? It is a set of ideas and stories about protecting "me" somehow. But I also know that is also a story, as it can't protect something that can't exist.

Thanks again!

Corene

[Magdalena]

Hello Corene,

So if the sense of self is basically stories (i.e. thought stuff), what does the "dissolution of the self" in your thread title refer to?

[Magdalena]

Hello, Corene,

How are you doing?