Discovery

[Elad]

I think that some of my exacerbated problems are actually resistance to giving up control.And I do feel like this is a good thing.I feel like I have reached a point of no return where no self is really the only way forward.

I am glad to hear all this Lucy! I believe in our work together and I am happy to continue.

Is the inquiry with you during the days at the moment? If yes, in what way?

I often attend as well and guide a little on the Sunday evening meetings (European time). To get all the different times, please write Vince, say I gave you the contact: vinceschubert@proton.me

[Elad]

Ups wrong email, here it is: vinceschubert@gmail.com

[Swift]

Is the inquiry with you during the days at the moment? If yes, in what way?

Sorry Elad, I didn't really understand this question.

[Elad]

Is the inquiry with you during the days at the moment? If yes, in what way?

Sorry Elad, I didn't really understand this question.

This process of looking into if there is a self, what is the nature of self, is it part of your days in any way you can identify? Such as asking yourself if there is a self, asking your self what it is that is being taken to be a self, asking yourself what is controlling different things that happen, etc.

Makes sense?

[Swift]

Hi Elad,

Forgive the delay I've been dwelling with this for a while.

Yes I think something similar to this is with me all the time. I may be not looking for evidence of self but for an example if I have feelings I tend to now think what's actually here and I find sensation and I find thought but I don't find a connection between sensation and thought, I just find what is.

I also often find myself thinking who is this happening to and of course I conclude that it isn't happening to anyone it's just life happening and there's no individual that things are happening to.
I do also often examine what feels like my physical form and find that I don't really find a beginning or an end or a connection between me and other things but there is just a sense or a presence and no real feeling of me.

And I have been busier of late and this is a time when sometimes I can feel no self at all.
if I really am in the flow and I'm engrossed in something my self just isn't there. It's not that I'm looking for it and can't find it, it's that it really isn't there at all.

[Elad]

Hi Elad,

Forgive the delay I've been dwelling with this for a while.

Yes I think something similar to this is with me all the time. I may be not looking for evidence of self but for an example if I have feelings I tend to now think what's actually here and I find sensation and I find thought but I don't find a connection between sensation and thought, I just find what is.

I also often find myself thinking who is this happening to and of course I conclude that it isn't happening to anyone it's just life happening and there's no individual that things are happening to.
I do also often examine what feels like my physical form and find that I don't really find a beginning or an end or a connection between me and other things but there is just a sense or a presence and no real feeling of me.

And I have been busier of late and this is a time when sometimes I can feel no self at all.
if I really am in the flow and I'm engrossed in something my self just isn't there. It's not that I'm looking for it and can't find it, it's that it really isn't there at all.

Beautiful!

What youi describe in the end sounds like states of no self. These are wonderful and like all states they come and go. The most important thing for us here, is the clear ability to see preverbally, that whatever the state is and what happens, it happens spontaoeusly without a self, and that the idea of a controller/doer is an illusion.

Are there any questions around that?

This video expresses the point in a simple and clear way:

https://youtu.be/CPnTy_wTxL4?si=Pka95G8lo8gvXD-b

[Swift]

Hi Elad,

I didn't really like that video at all, I thought it just seemed like a man with a very big ego expressing very pronounced opinions and I found it quite unsettling.

I could however identify with what he said about it being easier to just see no self as being a tiny tiny part of a huge organism rather than looking inside and identifying this absence of self - that is still something that I have a problem with. If I really look I can find no self but I don't really carry this sense around with me. I think you quoted something similar in a post earlier that you can feel like you've had that shift of knowing but not of living it.
I think I can fully identify with the notion of no controller though, I am becoming increasingly aware that I'm just part of life that is happening and my thoughts are just a part of that and they have no real bearing or weight on the reality of what is going to happen.

[Swift]

I think really I'm having a problem with surrendering to this. I think I understand that there is no self and that when I really examined direct experience, I find no self. I think I can even find joy in the notion of no self, it's just that on a day to day basis, I have such a ridiculously busy mind that it seems to overrun the no self and I just can't surrender to it.

[Elad]

I want to suggest to you a very soft enjoyable practice, try it out and write me about it when ready.

Take periods during the day, they can be short (1-10 min) or long (15 min - 40 min), where you just sit, walk or lay. Try it out both quiet places and "in the marketplace" (busy street, sitting in a lively cafe, etc). Now here is the crux: When I say just sit, walk or lay, I am not saying don't have thoughts and feelings and movements happening. What is is. It's just that the only "chosen/deliberate" activity during the period is to sit/walk/lay.

Try it out some times and write me what is experienced.

[Swift]

When I do this, the chosen activity seems to just happen naturally and then there are just loads of thoughts piled on top. When I went for a walk, I could even forget how I chose to come a particular route or crossed a particular road, because my mind was just so overrun with thoughts. But the walking actually happened quite naturally.

[Elad]

Good.

1) Now please tell me how you react to the following paragraph:

"We are not looking to change anything about the frequency or type of thoughts. Only to support a process where it becomes clear beyond doubt that there is no self controlling anything, no self at all. We are not even looking to get rid of the thoughts that say "this is not clear", "this is not sure", "I don't see this with full clarity". Only provide opportunities for it to be seen that also these are under no control and like everything else, without a self."

Before answering please sit with the sentence for some time. Just feel whatever transpires.

2) Do the same for this sentence:

"I cannot give up control because I have no control, I do not exist"

Again, before answering sit with the sentence for a while and just feel whatever is happening, gently.

3) Do the practice I introduced you to yesterday (just sit/walk/lay) more times, short or long.

Take all the time you want with this.

[Swift]

Hi Elad,

I think I may have to take a bit of time away from this. We have discussed in the past my control and anxiety issues and I think trying to deal with these is clashing with the LU.
I think I need to fix these as the priority so would you mind if I took a break and came back to you a little later.

[Elad]

Hi Elad,

I think I may have to take a bit of time away from this. We have discussed in the past my control and anxiety issues and I think trying to deal with these is clashing with the LU.
I think I need to fix these as the priority so would you mind if I took a break and came back to you a little later.

Hi Lucy

Of course.

I've been thinking to recommend you to see this interview and look into this work for your anxiety:

https://youtu.be/3T_y4QwSV_c?si=yoyrELVzXNYXNHld

https://youtu.be/eQkwLrSxd5w?si=SClrpsruRI04EODT

https://youtu.be/FeUioDuJjFI?si=vhYXoMmLzK7-6nw4

Finally, I was thinking message I wrote another guidee today might have value for you too (see next message).

I'm here when you want to engage with me, now or later 🙏

[Elad]

Thought a bit about the end of our last conversation, your question "is there no self". Of course for you it's a question to you and your process. Only your seeing and answer is your seeing and answer. However, I feel like sharing openly how it is here, for what it's worth:

For me all this leads more and more to rest in/ surrender to childlike openness and not knowing. While adult capacities function, and are used flexibly. Experiences of seeing through something that is believed to be the self come and go, "special states" come and go. The closest thing to something "stable" is the childlike innocent open heart perceptive being, which really was always there, but covered with fear based (self-)deceptions. The process here can help to liberate fixations on self illusion(s), and it is this liberation rather then gaining "special knowledge", that is the core. In this openness, "things" can be seen and flow freer.

I'm sharing this so you have the most sincere response to your question to me, and so your current guide plays with open cards. With you with the ongoing intention to support your looking, your discovery, your freedom.

Spend some time with all this, with it all, listen to your heart, what it needs and wants, then write.

[Swift]

Thanks Elad,
I do very much appreciate your kindness and understanding.