It’s already present

[Rega]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this? I understand that I’m guided to fully experience the truth of my existence, and if this is the case, no-self, I want to find it on my own. At this moment, I read a lot about this “concept”, and I feel like it’s becoming a story about a no self, or a search for where there is no self, so right now I’m trying to just see what’s real.

What are you looking for at LU? I feel like at this point I’m ready to commit more to seeing life as it is, being more immersed in reality than in thought. I guess the past few years has always lead to this on some level, but this is a time for me to engage in a more thorough reflection. Honestly I feel like I’m having a hard time committing on my own, and integrating spirituality in my life, so I hope that a steady communication with another person will help me. Moreover, by writing to another person, I can imagine that things become more honest, that fake stories about reality fade away. Truly, I feel like there’s a cycle of living through a screen, constantly running in circles, that I hope that seeing myself, life, reality, as it is, will break. I guess that by marking the consents down there i should know that this won’t be the case, but this motivation is still present at this moment - and I’m ready to let it go on some level to find out what is the case.

What do you expect from a guided conversation? First of all, I hope that by writing to another person, lying to myself and believing random thoughts would be harder. I hope that the steady communication will give me a framework to work in, since usually life just have a strong momentum and I find it hard to engage in this on my own. I hope that the questions and exercises will let me look at existence with more honesty, and discovering what is present if I let go of the story…

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry? I’ve read several books, I’ve been to a few meditation retreats (the longest was 10 days) and I sometimes do meditations myself, and sometimes just stop in the middle of the day and checking what exists…

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 7

[Elad]

Hi Rega :)

Nice to meet here. It's great with the wish to see for yourself what is true. That is the core attitude here. I encourage you to stay with that and discover, above what anyone else says, including me and LU. Our aim here is to support you to look for yourself.

Below is the standard message I send people as I start guiding them. Please read and let me know what reactions come up, unfiltered.

"Hello, my name is Elad and I would be happy to do this exploration with you, if we see that it makes sense. Please read and respond to the following points.

1. During this process we will attend only to your own direct experience. We will not be discussing theories or beliefs or other methods, including from non-duality and etc. I will ask you questions and give exercises and you will look and answer me from your direct experience.

2. The two most important ingredients in this process are your wish to see what is true and your willingness to look deeply at questions, give wholehearted engagement to experiments/exercises presented to you, and report your experience here with 100% honesty.

3. Please read the following documents from LU *carefully* and let me know or ask questions if you have any reservations or doubts regarding them:


http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2

And:

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041


4. For the process to be focused and fruitful, I like to make an agreement that both guide and client (i.e you and me if we do this together) respond on this thread daily. The point is not be rigid about it, but a spirit of wholehearted engagement. If any of this does not fit you, please let me know and we will consider what to do, including if it is better to find a different guide for you.

Warmly,
Elad"

[Rega]

hi :)

Once a day is fine by me.
I read both the links, and I guess I feel unease every time it says on this website that clearly I'm going to see there is no-self. I know that that's the point of it, and yet, it feels like it narrows my exprience in a way that I'm searching for a no-self while looking at what is... guess that's part of it to acknowledge that?

anyway - Im good to go, with excitment and fear

BTW is hebrew ok too or is it a problem since it's an open forum?

[Elad]

All right.

I recommend you don't trust LU that there is no self and dont believe anything. Question all beliefs. Look to find out for yourself what is clearly the case, in a way more direct and intimate then beliefs.

I prefer you write in English for my ease. If it becomes a big need to write in Hebrew we can talk about it.


1) Regarding he discomfort and fear in reading "there is no self", is there other things it is about, beside that "people here say it is so"?

2) The excitement, what is it about?

3) In direct experience when you look for yourself, what do you find?

[Elad]

Also:

For the next day practice several periods of just sitting, just walking or just laying. Duration can be everything from 1 min to as much as fits the flow. Just play with it. Let it be clear: It is not about not having thoughts or feelings during those periods. Everything will be as it will be. It's just that during those periods the only "choice" is to sit or walk or lay. Whatever else we are working with here, this a practice you can return to also. Try it in different places. In quiet place alone, in a cafe, etc.


Write me what is experienced.

[Rega]

Hey,

1) yes, there is. I asked myself right now - “what if there is no self”, to see how this fear feels at the moment. And I guess it feels like a fear to let go, on some level I am open to the possibility that that is the case, but then - what remains. I feel like my stability, my continuity is in danger. I mostly feel like it’s a pretty raw fear, coming from the stomach, and usually I try to sit with it, but any of the options above doesn’t seem to truly catch it…

2) I find it hard to write about the excitement with the fear still much present. Yet I guess that on some level this is the only genuine goal that I’ve ever found in my life, and committing to this process is also an adventure to the unknown, and I guess I’m both excited to see what is and happy to be at a point that I’m ready to face fears and to feel a movement in life.

3) right now, I mostly find the narrator, even the one writing these sentences… I also find a strong feeling in the stomach, and a body, and somehow they seemed not separated, and all of that seems like a me. I find the continuity of looking through those eyes each time. Maybe in my imagination if there is no self I shouldn’t be in this body all the time? This gives me an elusive since of self - the fact that I’m always here, in this body, this face (elusive because it’s a sneaky feeling, which I don’t truly understand)

Also: I did it several times, for an unlimited time, and I noticed that I snap out of it each time having a thought that induces a negative feeling (judgement, or stress from things to be done), like there’s some sort of urgency and I forget I was doing this in the first place. During the period itself, I guess I experienced my body pretty intimately a few times, with a sort of a halo, which didn’t feel like an image but more like a sensory object… for a few seconds now I felt out of time, like there is definitely no time, and then I’m back to thoughts, still knowing this on some level, just not aware of this.

Thank you for being here

[Elad]

"1) yes, there is. I asked myself right now - “what if there is no self”, to see how this fear feels at the moment. And I guess it feels like a fear to let go, on some level I am open to the possibility that that is the case, but then - what remains. I feel like my stability, my continuity is in danger. I mostly feel like it’s a pretty raw fear, coming from the stomach, and usually I try to sit with it, but any of the options above doesn’t seem to truly catch it… "

REGARDING THE FEAR: Can you sense that these ideas about control and continuity just take you out of direct experience? If you just stay lovingly with the sensation of the fear, don't banish it, what happens?

"2) I find it hard to write about the excitement with the fear still much present. Yet I guess that on some level this is the only genuine goal that I’ve ever found in my life, and committing to this process is also an adventure to the unknown, and I guess I’m both excited to see what is and happy to be at a point that I’m ready to face fears and to feel a movement in life."

I GET A GOOD FEELING about the interest in what is and the willingness to face what is really experienced.

"3) right now, I mostly find the narrator, even the one writing these sentences… I also find a strong feeling in the stomach, and a body, and somehow they seemed not separated, and all of that seems like a me. I find the continuity of looking through those eyes each time. Maybe in my imagination if there is no self I shouldn’t be in this body all the time? This gives me an elusive since of self - the fact that I’m always here, in this body, this face (elusive because it’s a sneaky feeling, which I don’t truly understand)"

SO ALL THIS STUFF YOU DESCRIBE is mostly what we call the conventional sense of self. Later we will look more at that, but for now focus on staying with the feeling and see what happens.

"Also: I did it several times, for an unlimited time, and I noticed that I snap out of it each time having a thought that induces a negative feeling (judgement, or stress from things to be done), like there’s some sort of urgency and I forget I was doing this in the first place. During the period itself, I guess I experienced my body pretty intimately a few times, with a sort of a halo, which didn’t feel like an image but more like a sensory object… for a few seconds now I felt out of time, like there is definitely no time, and then I’m back to thoughts, still knowing this on some level, just not aware of this."

I ASSUME YOU REFER TO THE SIT, LAY, WALK practice here. When you do it the next times, decide in advance for how long and set a timer. Now the point is that this is the only "decision" during each practice period. All the rest that happens, thoughts, feelings, judgements, is just what happens by itself. When you have played with it more write me about it.

DO THE FOLLOWING EXERCISES, see next message.

"Thank you for being here"

Be ahava 🤍

[Elad]

Finding the Gap

This exercise has a dual purpose. Firstly, to become aware of each and every though as they appear. Secondly, the careful looking for the gap is an example of how carefully to look when looking for the ‘separate self’.
Here is a step-by-step description of how to look at thoughts. First thing is to sit for at least 10-15 minutes quietly somewhere, several times throughout your day. Close your eyes and just notice thoughts. Don’t engage with any thought, just notice them.

1. Notice the current thought that is present.
Like when you sit observing the body, a thought might arise “this is my feet” or “here is a pain” or “my breathing is too quick” or “I am bored with this exercise” or “I have better things to do” or any sorts of thoughts.
2. This thought will pass and another thought will come. So just observe this thought passing.
3. Then wait for the next thought to come.
4. When the next thought is present, just notice it, and see how it passes.
5. Then wait for the next thought to come.
6. Repeat #4 and #5 many-many times.

Between the 2 thoughts there is a gap. It can be very short or subtle, just a second or a few seconds before the next thought come in.

This is how to look at thoughts:

Looking how they come and go, and Observing the short gap between them. Noticing how the current thought is passing. And waiting for the next thought to come.



Please do the following exercise:

Throughout your waking day, try to observe the gap between thoughts as often as possible. It can be done by noticing that ‘thinking’ is happening right now, then stop and just simply wait for the next thought to come. In the ‘waiting’ there is a gap between two thoughts.

Let me know how you go.

[Rega]

Hey,

“Secondly, the careful looking for the gap is an example of how carefully to look when looking for the ‘separate self’.”

CAN YOU ELLABORATE? I’m not sure I got it…

Anyway, I felt it’s hard not controlling the thoughts, just watching them, like I was narrating them and slowing them down in order to catch them. Sometimes it feels like I’m in the gap, then before I know it a thought sneaks in, and it still feels as empty as the gap until I’m caught in it. Usually it doesn’t even feel quite like it’s made out of words, more a feeling of knowing… and then when I try to watch it I put it into very slow words, which feels a bit like control.

But in the gap, usually I’m back to my breath, sometimes to sensations, and a thought comes in “this is the gap” but it doesn’t seem to ruin it completely. When my eyes are open somehow the gap feels more real… like I’m more into reality than before. For some reason I feel like I’m missing something writing about it, but I don’t have anything else to say.

Thank you, Shabbat shalom

[Elad]

Good good, re the gap exercise. Dont be perfectionistic, just pay attention and describe as best you can. As you did. That will be enough.

Re "the kind of looking" - just that it is about what is seen in real time, as opposed to just believed...

Please move to the following exercise:

[Elad]

Direct Experience - Identifying Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Identify activities as simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists of your own.

So here is me doing it for a few seconds:

Hearing music, simply = sound
Seeing juice, simply = sound
Imagining you reading this, simply = thought

Or short hand as I do it more: sound, sensation, sensation, sound, sight, sound, etc

After a day write me about how it was practicing with this, what was experienced.

And write out 5 min in real time in the above format, ie:

Y, simply = X


Also do a few rounds of SIT, LAY, WALK with timer. Write what is experienced.

[Rega]

Hi,

In my experience there was something satisfying in this breakdown exercise. First of all, the weirdest of all was the image part, cause usually I didn’t do it on a specific object but at the whole visual field, which made it feel a bit unreal in a since.unlike other more specific stuff (specific sound, taste etc) this felt like I’m saying: the entire world, simply = image. That was a bit mind-bending…
Also the thought part was pretty satisfying, because I felt like there’s a double meaning here to saying simply = thought. Like I’m identifying it as a thought but also leaving it in a way.

Some part of me feels like it’s brainwashing myself, I can identify it as doubt, and I think that when I check with deeper levels I don’t truly believe that, and yet I feel the need to write it here.

Tried to sit for 5 minutes in a crowded place and I just constantly moved when feeling people around, tried to watch that too.

Thank you

[Elad]

Hi, good attending.

Well in some ways it is brainwashing, brain playing, brain exploring. I am just give you all kinds of "games" and questions that can help notice new things about reality/yourself/the mind/etc., and by noticing rigid or unhelpful patterns and beliefs can change.

This whole process brings light to what is happening. Nothing I say is in itself "the truth to hold on to". Just skillful means to "open the mind". So if you take anything from here as "gospel" you are imposing brain washing on you in the bad sense. But if you use it all to look and discover with your own sincerity, you are "washing"/ throwing light on your own blind spots.

Do this exercise:


“I” labelling

Get a sheet of paper and draw a line that divides that sheet in half. Label one half 'self' and the other side 'other'. Sit down and start a timer for 5 minutes. Every time you have a thought make a mark on the sheet. If that thought is about the self put a mark on the self side, if it’s about something else, mark the other side. If a thought about food occurs due to feeling hungry, mark that on the self side. Any thought that refers back to a self should go on the self side. (I'm bored, I'm tired, is the door locked (my safety) that video was funny (I was amused), my back hurts, I am frightened) get it?

Let me know how you go and what you notice.

[Elad]

You didn't do the following from yesterday:

"And write out 5 min in real time in the above format, ie:

Y, simply = X"

[Rega]

Hi,

I've done the self other task - 15 V's on the self side, one on the other side. Some thoughts were blurry self (Sharon has an appointment today - followed by should I write him - was the first a self thought?). some thoughts are just blurry, this whole watching thoughts usually just make me think about watching thoughts, which makes it harder to notice them. Again it feels like they are sneaking up behind me, where I’m not looking. Anyway I guess I'm both surprised and not surprised. Surprised because I would have want to think more about other stuff (and even starting to blame therapy and meditation for being so narcissistic). Not surprised because this is exactly what I thought I’m about to find, and in this point I have a hard time even considering a pure other thought.

About the task - thought you wanted me to write it for myself, anyway I’m sending it as it is in Hebrew - did it in the protest on my phone.
מסתכלת על הנעליים, תמונה
שומעת רמקול, צליל
שומעת רמקול, פשוט = צליל
רעש של רחפן, פשוט צליל
מרגישה את הרגליים, פשוט תחושה
מרגישה סחרחורת, פשוט תחושה
דשא על היד, פשוט תחושה
צעקות, פשוט צליל
עץ, פשוט תמונה
לחץ בבטן, פשוט תחושה
לפחד שרואים אותי, פשוט מחשבה
לרצות ללכת מפה, פשוט מחשבה
לחשוב שאני מבזבזת את הזמן שלי, פשוט מחשבה
מחשבה על, פשוט מחשבה
צליל של רמקול, פשוט צליל
רחפן, פשוט צליל
כביש, צללים הולכים, פשוט תמונה
ריח של דשא, פשוט ריח

Thank you for being here