Beginner looking for liberation

[Elad]

And do this exercise:

Friend/Stranger

Bring up a thought about a character labelled "friend".
Then bring up a thought about a character labelled "stranger".
Compare these thoughts.
Is there a difference in these thoughts?
Is there a true difference or is it just different content?
Now, bring up a thought about a character labelled "friend". After that, look at a thought about the character labelled "me”.
Is there a difference?
Is there anything special about thoughts with the content "me-character"?

[Jay85]

There is not difference between the thoughts substantially. Thoughts are thoughts, it seems that some thoughts are believed by other thought and a tightness or other body reaction does happen. Me, friend, stranger, all just mental content.

So what is seen? You keep asking the question, and the idea of being too stupid and the question “Why am I not getting it?” do arise. Is it that hidden or what is keeping the illusion stable. There is no center, no self… as Christiana described it, it is a weird situation.

[Jay85]

There is not difference between the thoughts substantially. Thoughts are thoughts, it seems that some thoughts are believed by other thought and a tightness or other body reaction does happen. Me, friend, stranger, all just mental content.

So what is seen? You keep asking the question, and the idea of being too stupid and the question “Why am I not getting it?” do arise. Is it that hidden or what is keeping the illusion stable. There is no center, no self… as Christiana described it, it is a weird situation.

[Jay85]

There is not difference between the thoughts substantially. Thoughts are thoughts, it seems that some thoughts are believed by other thought and a tightness or other body reaction does happen. Me, friend, stranger, all just mental content.

So what is seen? You keep asking the question, and the idea of being too stupid and the question “Why am I not getting it?” do arise. Is it that hidden or what is keeping the illusion stable. There is no center, no self… as Christiana described it, it is a weird situation.

[Jay85]

There is not difference between the thoughts substantially. Thoughts are thoughts, it seems that some thoughts are believed by other thought and a tightness or other body reaction does happen. Me, friend, stranger, all just mental content.

So what is seen? You keep asking the question, and the idea of being too stupid and the question “Why am I not getting it?” do arise. Is it that hidden or what is keeping the illusion stable. There is no center, no self… as Christiana described it, it is a weird situation.

[Elad]

There is not difference between the thoughts substantially. Thoughts are thoughts, it seems that some thoughts are believed by other thought and a tightness or other body reaction does happen. Me, friend, stranger, all just mental content.

So what is seen? You keep asking the question, and the idea of being too stupid and the question “Why am I not getting it?” do arise. Is it that hidden or what is keeping the illusion stable. There is no center, no self… as Christiana described it, it is a weird situation.

This has nothing to do with stupidity. Transformation happens in its own way and pace, way outside anyones limited plans.

Look at how/where you still believe there is a self. Make it your exploration for the next day at least. How/where does my belief in self show up?

[Jay85]

Hi Elad, sorry for not posting the last days. I was quite busy these days with a lot of driving and business topics. Reflecting on this, I was feeling the same than before. I was not present enough to post something to you. You do this voluntarily and I don’t want to waste your time with my complaining about this. Since we started this my gut feeling or better sense of time/dates did change a lot. It’s really hard to remember what did happen last week (or when my last posting was), its like the importance of the past is did calibrate. Thought about the past do not stick anymore. I had an argument about a minor thing with someone. The story did not last for long, it felt silly to believe the thoughts about it.

I’m passionately looking for the self and it does not show up. But I’m patient.

[Elad]

Hi Elad, sorry for not posting the last days. I was quite busy these days with a lot of driving and business topics. Reflecting on this, I was feeling the same than before. I was not present enough to post something to you. You do this voluntarily and I don’t want to waste your time with my complaining about this. Since we started this my gut feeling or better sense of time/dates did change a lot. It’s really hard to remember what did happen last week (or when my last posting was), its like the importance of the past is did calibrate. Thought about the past do not stick anymore. I had an argument about a minor thing with someone. The story did not last for long, it felt silly to believe the thoughts about it.

I’m passionately looking for the self and it does not show up. But I’m patient.

Great to hear re past, stories! This is the good stuff :)

Re complaining, in general not helpful ;) Describing what is going on as simply as possible, including whatever is not clear etc is good and part of this process.

I am happy to do this and also good at saying if something feels off, so trust our cooperation, we will navigate together :)

Now, instead of trying to find the unfindable (self), take it in that you do not find any separate self or any controller or doer. And just notice how it feels. The seeing and feeling is preverbal. Spend time taking it in.

Practice at least one period a day of 20-40 minutes, sitting facing a wall in silence and minimal movement, noticing in silence that there is no controller or doer, thoughts, sensations, thoughts of self, states, all happening by itself.

Write me soon again

[Jay85]

Hi Elad, I had the chance to sit for a couple of periods. Not more than one a day and not every day. Job, family and so on is quite time consuming, but I do my best to keep the focus.

There is no “one feeling or thought” that describes it. Some periods are calm, some are first quite busy. But I always land in a kind of “so what-space”. I do try to feel into this feeling there is no self, but I feel stuck. I’m not sure if the body sensations are triggering the stuck thought. Is there a exercise which can help me here?

[Elad]

There is no special feeling of no-self. So you will naturally be stuck looking for that. What I meant - and that can be misunderstood - was just experience what actually is. Sensations, thoughts. Attention being narrowed into thoughts. Attention being narrowed into stories about "me". Attention opening to sensations and thoughts. Attention only with sensations. Etc. There is not even attention as something separate from experience being what it is. Can you see this? Is it true?


"So-what space" you describe sounds good... Say more about that: What is being SEEN in "the so-what space"?

For the next day practice several periods of just sitting, just walking or just laying. Duration can be everything from 1 min to as much as fits the flow. Just play with it. Let be clear: It is not about not having thoughts or feelings. Everything will be as it is. It's just that during those periods the only "choice" is to sit or walk or lay.

Write me what is experienced.

[Jay85]

Dear Elad, it has been a crazy and busy week, but I’m on vacation now and the body mind is coming down. Thanks for clarification, i think that’s an important pointing. The is something, calling it avoidance, avoiding to look … (PART2 is coming)

[Jay85]

Call it avoidance, resistence to… I can’t even tell what I’m resisting. The resistance is not even traceable. There are body sensations which are interpreted as such.

About Attention:
Attention is also not findable. It’s looks like that it is a concept to describe seeing or where the focus goes. But it’s not separate from this.

Just sitting/the so-what space:
I was traveling a lot and did participate a lote of meeting etc. I was “just” sitting, listening or writing. Thank you for repeating an important point. I did fall into the trap of (“Oh man, again this thought. I don’t want this thoughts….”) It’s so lightening speed, that I sometimes just realizing this after a short right on the “thought-train”. This is so slippery, that annoyence appear, but it passes.

The so-what space is a weird point, where my thought goes like “So, what? Nothing does happen, isn’t it” “what’s the point” “Boring, the is nothing going on”. My mind tells me, this seeking sucks!

And yes… the most exhausting thing is, that the seeking, is obviously leading to nothing. How should it?! This whole thing is leading

PS. Sorry. I’m was getting interrupted. On vacation its hard to find a “my space” to reflect and do some writing.

[Elad]

You are at a good point. Now let your heart know what your mind says (and deep down your heart knows). Then you will say the same thing you say now, but with love and a smile, instead of with frustration.

"You" can't do that, so what can?

[Jay85]

“I don’t know, I don’t know.” It’s like a voice in the wilderness. Of course, this voice doesn’t know anything. It’s an inner reflection nothing, more nothing less.

I just had breakfast with friends. Everything does just happens in the now. Words, thoughts and movement. There is no control by a self. This illusion goes deep.

[Elad]

Yes! Say more about how the illusion goes deep and how it is seen that it is an illusion.