Oneness

[Cree]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this? I understand, I feel and I see that there is no self. There is no separate, identifiable observer. The observer is the observed and vice versa.
The illusion of separation is produced by the illusion of the existence of a self. In reality there is no separation whatsoever between the human body and the entire multiverse.
What are you looking for at LU?
I'm interested to connect with a community of people who, like me, have achieved the realization of the non existence of the self.
My path as a seeker of the truth about the human existence has been always a very solitary one. I'm looking for to seeing what happens when people who have awakened to the truth of no-self meet and share their point of views. I'm also very much interested to become a guide myself, to help the ones seeking to wake up. I deeply believe that this is the most important mission of each human being, to realize the truth, and to help his fellow humans to achieve that realization.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I'm very curious to learn the LU guide's approach to the truth on no-self. I still don't know if the LU guides follow a specific method to help the seekers who ask for their guidance to realize the truth. Or if instead the idea of helping is based on a free conversation.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I've been a seeker of the truth of our human existence for around 25 years. My path started with a spontaneous and solitary experience of transcendence in my 20ies. I was alone in the middle of the wildest nature and a dangerous event made me suddenly feel that there was no separation between me and the sky, me and everything else I could see around me. That brief but transformative experience inspired me to start seeking. A series of interesting "coincidences" brought me then to read the books written about Sri Ramana Maharishi's teachings by his disciples. Those reading inspired me to start practicing meditation on non-duality. Another great master at the beginning of my path has been Anandamayi ma.
I finally completely woke up to the truth and awareness of the non existence of the self after years of studying the talks and books of
Jiddu Krishnamurti, and practicing his teachings.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

[Magdalena]

Hello, Cree (is that what you want me to call you, or some other name?),


Welcome to Liberation Unleashed. My name is Magdalena and I can join you here if you like.


So, to begin with, let’s get over a couple of formalities.
Please confirm that you’ve read and are OK with the following:
1) The LU Disclaimer http://www.liberationunleashed.com/register/disclaimer/
2) The LU Terms and Conditions http://www.liberationunleashed.com/register/terms/
3) What LU is not https://www.liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041
Also, please watch this short video to learn how to use the Quote function which we will need in our conversation: viewtopic.php?t=660


I completely relate to your need to find a community of like-minded people and your desire to guide others. For those who have “seen”, as we put it, we have a set of so-called final questions which, if answered to LU guides’ satisfaction, enable you to join our post-Gate groups and forums where you will find the community and materials of interest to you.

But before I send you the questions, let’s talk about a couple of things from your intro.

You say:

In reality there is no separation whatsoever between the human body and the entire multiverse.

Other than the human body, can separation be found elsewhere?


You also say:

...people who, like me, have achieved the realization of the non existence of the self.

Who has achieved what precisely?
What makes you view this as an achievement in the first place?
Is there anything to achieve?

Looking forward to your reply.

[Cree]

Hi Magdalena,

Thanks a lot for your message and detailed explanations.

I really love the two questions you asked me in response to mine.
They make me already understand I'm in the right place :)

You ask:
Other than the human body, can separation be found elsewhere?

-No, there is no separation whatsoever. There is no beginning and there is no end to anything. Everything is one.

You ask:
Who has achieved what precisely?
What makes you view this as an achievement in the first place?
Is there anything to achieve?

I probably phrased my answer not in the ideal way. Unfortunately in these matters language is profoundly limited. So bare with me and my limited language.

Of course, there is no one who achieved anything. The process of inquiring ends in the disappearance of the self. Also this process ends in the realization that there was really no one who inquired in the first place.
From suffering, naturally a need of liberation arises, a need of ending the suffering, even if there is no one who was suffering in the first place. But the body (and the brain as part of the body) register physical and emotional pain, and when there is still identification with the self, this pain can be unbearable, mostly because of that identification.
From that ignorance, from that suffering, arises the need of truth, of liberation.
Paradoxically, the identification with the self, and the pain that comes with it, it's the main reason for the need of liberation to arise. This need produces a seeking that eventually ends in the awareness of the self non existence, and with it the realization that there was really no one who suffered in the first place.

So again, there is no one who achieved anything.

[Cree]

I forgot to reply about my name...
my full name is Cristiano.
My friends in Italy call me Cri (that's why I chose Cree as second username)
My fiends in the US call me Chris or Cris. And of course Cristiano is also used.
You can call me in whichever way its more comfortable and pleasant for you,
for me it's really the same.

Btw, if this information can be of any help: I speak and write fluently in French (where I lived more than 10 years)
And of course in Italian, that is my native language.

With Love
C

[Cree]

...sorry for this answer in pieces

I also forgot to write that I read and I agree with the three points you posted about LU.
Even if I have to say that in the list of "LU is not about" I would have maybe phrased a bit differently two of those points,
but I fundamentally agree with them as well.

Also I just saw the video for using the quote tool. That's why my previous answers didn't contain a proper quote boxes.
In the future I will know how to quote properly.

[Magdalena]

Hello again, Cristiano,😉


Thank you for your posts.

Everything is one.

This is how it’s often phrased.
However, can there be certainty about “everything”?
Can there be certainty about anything – regardless of what and how is experienced, or how it appears?

Please consider the following question carefully:
What are you really certain about?

The process of inquiring ends in the disappearance of the self.

Can you say more about this process of inquiry from your experience?
What happened as a result?
How was this “ending” experienced?
Was it gradual, or a sudden “shift”?
How do you know it was the self that disappeared?


Please answer all the questions from your own experience and don’t rely on the teachings of others to put words in your mouth, despite the limitations of language. Take your time – no need to rush.

[Cree]

Hello again Magdalena :) and thanks again for these wonderful
questions, that allows me to look for the best possible way of explain my point of view.

That said, I personally believe that written words on their own,
like in this conversation between me and you so far, can be only a possibly very brief, introductory phase.

I strongly believe that without a passage to a more direct communication, where words and meanings
come with a voice, its color, a tone, a gaze, the light or darkness in that gaze, a face and its facial expressions, a body and
its movements...so in few words, with some life...without all that what is left are just dead meaningless words :)

So I will follow with sincere pleasure the words challenges you propose me, but again, I consider words,
on its own and stripped from all the rest, very very limited, so much that are often mischievous.

I could name already so many words in the message I just wrote that are misleading language and meaning
"traps"..

So I really hope that not too far from now we could move to a one to one video chat of some sort.
It's still a big compromise compared to meeting in presence, but it would be already great.

However, can there be certainty about “everything”?
Can there be certainty about anything – regardless of what and how is experienced, or how it appears?

Please consider the following question carefully:
What are you really certain about?

What we are doing here, me and you, is trying to put in words something that is impossible to phrase,
impossible to really grasp, that is impossible to understand. Because the same idea of "understanding" requires thoughts,
that are the "problem" in the first place.

Again, if I have to try to honestly answer your question "what are you really certain about?" I couldn't.
For several reasons:
-The need of certainty it stems from some of the fundamental fears who make up the illusion of a self.
The fear of losing control - if I believe that I know "for sure" something I believe I control it. If I control it
it cannot harm me, and so on. So of course at the end, if we follow the chain of fears, we arrive at one
of the root fears: the fear of death. That is again the fear of death of a already non existing separate self.

So not only there cannot be certainty about anything, but just the looking for certainty is already a sign of a
an illusory self, also in panic mode :)

But "certainty" can also have another meaning.
If we talk about a concept built by thoughts that pretend to explain everything about something, or everything about everything ( where "everything" is just another word) to have all the answers, it doesn't exist and is stems from a desperate attempt to control reality.

But there is also a feeling of certainty. A feeling that is not made by thoughts. It's an happening, it's a clear
direct vision of what is. It's something that cannot be fully described in words, and produce a disappearance
of every possible thoughts, and so of the illusion of the self made by those thoughts.

Can you say more about this process of inquiry from your experience?
What happened as a result?
How was this “ending” experienced?
Was it gradual, or a sudden “shift”?
How do you know it was the self that disappeared?

I come from a very long path of seeking the truth. Started around 25 years ago.
In this path I was sometimes a bit closer to the truth, sometimes very far away.

So I went through many phases, but always with this seeking drive in me.
Because you asked a big question, and I understand you prefer clear and satisfactory answers, please bear with me
and the length of my attempt of explaining :)

A spontaneous experience in my twenties, alone in a dangerous wild nature corner of Indonesia, provoked the first strong shift in perception. I saw through the illusory "glass" of the self. I saw and felt that there was no separation whatsoever
between me and the horizon I was looking. But of course even this phrasing is very limited, because in that moment,
there was no me or what I was watching, as separated entities. There was just all what was there, and non separated.

The direct effect of that shift was the absolute disappearance of any fear and any thought. Even the question of fear or not fear disappeared.

What happened was that as a young Italian boy for the first time away from Europe, I had absolutely no idea of the strength and volume of the tide in tropical places like Indonesia.
I had just arrived on a little island, and from my little cabana I walked towards what I thought was "the shore" :)
A local told me just before to be very careful of some deadly sea snakes that were in the shallow water around the island: the black and white striped ones.

So safe on the sand I walked to what I thought was the line of the shore, with Idea of sitting there and watch the sun setting. When there, twenty meters or so from "the shore" I saw this little sandy "hill". So I sad to myself I'll sit there to watch the sunset. So I did. To reach that little hill I walked through about 20 meters or so of shallow waters, and right there in the middle of those 20 meters, in the crystal water I saw a couple of those deadly snakes. Scared, I walked much faster to that hill for safety and I sat there, telling to myself I've just this 20 meters to cover to go back, I'll be very careful. The water is also crystal clear, I can see everything and avoid those snakes if I see them again...everything will be fine.

So I sat there and looked at the beautiful sunset. I don't know how long it passed, but maybe 20 minutes later I realized that the water around the hill was much higher than before, so much that what was left of that sandy hill I was sitting on was just a small bump just sticking out of the water.
So I turned to what I thought was the shore...really stunned I realized that I was in the middle of the ocean. The shore was really far, maybe half a kilometer or I don't know, but really far. Not only that, but with the sun low at the horizon, its reflection on the sea's surface made the water absolutely impenetrable, I couldn't see a thing inside the now high water.

For a brief instant my mind was literally overwhelmed by fears of snakes, me swimming back for half a kilometer, not knowing what was coming at me and so on...
But for a reason I cannot explain, those very strong fears lasted a really brief instant, and then disappeared all together.
So much so that even if the sky was getting darker and darker, and the prospective was to swim back among deadly snakes - that I knew were actually really there - inside impenetrable dark waters, instead of panicking, instead of trying to swim back as fast as I could when there was still some light... I calmly turned to the sunset, that in that moment was reaching its peak of beauty and power.
Right there I had that shift, my first and very strong one. Those strong fears disappearing brought with them also everything else. There was no me, no sky, no sun or sunset, as separated entities. In that state of really incredibly calm bliss, I waited until the sun went down behind the horizon, then I swam back to the now
far away shore... in all that not a single thought crossed my mind.
Only later I elaborated what happened, only later I gave it words.

This experience changed everything. Once back in Italy i started seeking for an answer. What happened there? How I could gain back that state?

I won't go through all the books and great masters I met through those books. But one common tread was the non-duality path and my solitude. For many reasons, mostly connected to my work, my path was a very solitary one (I've never had a living guide or a guru or anything like that. Not even a friend or a partner who was sharing my same path). I think that solitude maybe helped shape a very personal path, but also maybe slowed down the moment of my "awakening".

That path had many high and many lows, but I never touched again that state I had felt in Indonesia many years before.

The second strong shift after many years after, thanks to the reading of the power of now. For the first time I clearly saw the ghost of "the self". Meaning that I clearly saw something that I had always called "me", that instead was just some sort of inner ghost, of puppet, a bundle of thoughts, memories, actions and reactions and so on...
So another question popped up...if I can clearly see this ME, who is the one that is seeing...

This shift eroded significantly the grasp of the illusory self on my life, but still it didn't disappear. It was still somehow
governing my decisions, my reactions etc.

It's really the meeting with the writings and video talks of Jiddu Khrishnamurti that produced the strongest and definitive shift in perception. To be precise It was a series of very strong shifts, one very close to the other, in a period of maybe a month in total, that produced the final clear direct and constant vision of what is, without no one there to see it.
That produced the clear awareness of the nonexistence of a self, separate or not.

There is nothing there, or here, beside what is...and that is already A LOT! :)

My awareness of it, is so clear and constant that I know - " "with certitude " " - :) that there is no possible going back.
Sorry if I use a stupid word, very much widespread, but it's also an effective one...I know I'm finally completely "awaken".

I still consider myself a seeker, because I believe that the nature of the mind is still unknown, even beyond the
disappearance of the self, and it will be always never completely known.
So I prefer to stay open to the idea that also maybe, and just maybe, there are other "levels" of awakening...

But also because I believe that I'm still not completely free of the illusion of time, that in my vision is very much
linked to the root of the most invisible thoughts, and with them to the very subtle and almost invisible
shades and remains of some sort of self.
I still can feel time sometimes, as something, a movement of some sort happening inside.
I'm working on that :)

Please answer all the questions from your own experience and don’t rely on the teachings of others to put words in your mouth, despite the limitations of language. Take your time – no need to rush.

I totally understand where your suggestion and request comes from. But please believe me when I say that I'm using only my words. After all those years of reading books on spirituality, non duality etc, the early phase of using masters words has long gone :)
All That said, I think given the limited amount of words and phrasing available in general in most languages to
describe something that has been described so many times, and in so many ways, it's inevitable that sometimes, some of my chosen words or phrasing can coincide with the ones of masters the teachings I read and I respect.
But it's not a choice for lack of imagination or laziness, it's just a coincidence.

I'm looking very much forward to continue by video chat (i really hope is what happens at one point at LU)
this sincerely beautiful and very rich conversation about NOTHING :)

With Love
Cristiano

[Magdalena]

Morning, Cristiano,

Thank you for sharing this detailed account of your initial awakening and what happened after.
There are a few things to unpack here the way I see it. ;-)

… explain my point of view.

You know that we are NOT talking about points of view here, right?
Of course, language is a labelling tool first and foremost, hardly adequate for some purposes, but we have no better, and so we need to try and make the best use of it that we possibly can. Particularly when guiding, which is what you’d like to do, right?
The questions that are being posed here are posed in order to find out which areas are clear, and which still need to be looked/inquired into.

Sure, we could sit in silence in what you call "presence" (a concept used by some teachers).

words and meanings come with a voice, its color, a tone, a gaze, the light or darkness in that gaze, a face and its facial expressions, a body and its movements

What makes you think this would be more real/immediate/etc. than what we’re doing right now?
Do you consider voices, colours, tones, gazes, faces, bodies etc. to be more reliable?
More “real”?

Just LOOK: can there be anything BUT "presence", or "what is", or whatever you may want to call it?
Meaning there is no difference between words and no words, silence or no silence, etc. etc. and only our limited minds can label some as more perfect than others. Are you with me?

if I have to try to honestly answer your question "what are you really certain about?" I couldn't.

Good.

another question popped up...if I can clearly see this ME, who is the one that is seeing...

Is this still a valid question for you?
If so, what is your take on this RIGHT NOW? (not from theory, but if you simply LOOK)

There is nothing there, or here, beside what is...and that is already A LOT! :)

Yes.

I prefer to stay open to the idea that also maybe, and just maybe, there are other "levels" of awakening...

Now, cards on the table, please.

What are your expectations as for what you term “other levels”?
If there are "other levels",
- How will life change?
- How will you change?
- What will be gained?
- What will be lost?

I'm still not completely free of the illusion of time

How does the illusion of time show up in Cristiano’s life?

…some of my chosen words or phrasing can coincide with the ones of masters the teachings I read ...

I see.

I'm looking very much forward to continue by video chat … this sincerely beautiful and very rich conversation about NOTHING :)

As for a video meetup, for now let’s keep to the forum, shall we? By doing so, you may already be helping those seekers who may relate to your experience as they follow this exchange here. In other words, you are helpign to guide already, without being a guide yet. ;-)
Will keep your preference in mind though.


One final comment:
Here at LU, we like to keep things simple. We focus on what is imagined/conceptual/mental/thought story, and what is not.
We do not push towards any sort of "truth", aware as we are of the limitations of the human mind.

 

[Cree]

Dear Magdalena,thanks for your last reply.

You know that we are NOT talking about points of view here, right?

In my last message I said that I could already spot many misleading words "traps" in my message, and of course one of
those was the use of the word "point of view"...
I really hope that your effort here is not just focused on keep policing my use of single words, but to try to see beyond that, to try to see who i am and what I'm trying to say by the whole picture of me and my full attempts of explanations to you :)

Sitting together in presence for me it doesn't mean just being in silence. Presence in silence is of course a very powerful state. But what I meant is that the meeting of two human beings, to know each others a bit, to talk, and also why not share silence, of course cannot be the same of a communication between the same two, by a back and forth of electronic messages. That's just a fact.

What makes you think this would be more real/immediate/etc. than what we’re doing right now?
Do you consider voices, colours, tones, gazes, faces, bodies etc. to be more reliable?
More “real”?

Just LOOK: can there be anything BUT "presence", or "what is", or whatever you may want to call it?
Meaning there is no difference between words and no words, silence or no silence, etc. etc. and only our limited minds can label some as more perfect than others. Are you with me?

I'm sorry but I'm not with you on this.
I don't think that a communication made by a back and forth messages of words alone on a screen are the same as two people meeting, physically, or even by video chat (this one being still a compromise, but surely better than just messaging)
This is just a fact, otherwise all would be the same, talking not talking, being not being, being on Lu or not, being aware of the non-existence of the self or not being aware...and I'm sorry to say but that would be absurd.
But I'll try to go a bit deeper into it.

A single open sincere smile who comes from the heart can burn in one instant a thousands of words.
It can open channels and the ability to communal understanding to a level that is incomparable to any communication through just written words.
A sincere smile is just an example, but sometimes just the tone in which we say a word can reveal much more of
what real meaning we attribute to that word, and it can reveal level of consciousness that the conscious part of us is not even aware of.
Now if you couple that sincere smile, or gesture, or gaze, with powerful phrasing, then I think it's very easy
to see that of course words on a computer and a real meeting between two human beings cannot be the same...

If you think it is the same, it's like saying that watching a picture of a video of a tree is the same of making the direct
experience of that same tree... I really hope you don't think that :)

Words written in a good book are a bit more alive, just because writing a good book is an art. It requires a dedication, a focus and an intention that last sometimes years. That effort, that dedication, that art, gets embedded in the phrasing, in the words, through prose and poetry, making those words and the meanings they convey more alive. Also the length of a book allow to an explanation, a description, to be accurate in detail, in feelings and so on.
A dedication, an art of writing, that for many reasons of course cannot happen in this kind of conversation between me and you here.
But in any case a direct conversation between two human being who meet with their bodies and their sincerely open hearts it's really something else. The life that happens there is incomparable with any written words, and it's a truly unique event.
This to me is obvious.

another question popped up...if I can clearly see this ME, who is the one that is seeing...

Is this still a valid question for you?
If so, what is your take on this RIGHT NOW? (not from theory, but if you simply LOOK)

It's not a valid question for me anymore. I was just describing a phase of my long path as a seeker.
But probably my phrasing wasn't clear enough.

About my take right now, I think I already explained it in several ways :)
But let me know if those ways were still not satisfactory enough for you.

Now, cards on the table, please.

What are your expectations as for what you term “other levels”?
If there are "other levels",
- How will life change?
- How will you change?
- What will be gained?
- What will be lost?

I expressly put "levels" in quotes, to try to avoid a misunderstanding, but I see it wasn't enough :)

I have absolutely no idea of what lies in my path a second, a minute, an hour or 10 years from now.
The only thing I believe I know is that I won't fall back in the ignorance of the idea of a me, of a separate self.

I was just saying that I prefer to stay open to anything that can come. if there might be other " " levels " " of
awakening or not, I don't know, I just choose to stay open to any possibility, open to the endless unknown.
Just few years ago I didn't know that the state I'm in right now would have been possible...
So I would I know what lies in this path for me tomorrow?
Because it's literally impossible to know everything, anything is also possible :)

How does the illusion of time show up in Cristiano’s life?

Oh it really doesn't show up in my actions and my outer life anymore.
It's mostly an inner feeling, when the attention cannot perpetually stay into the absolute now, when being
in presence is not absolute, some thoughts arise and slip away, then a fainted light feeling of time is felt inwardly.
But at the same TIME :) I look at it, I see it, and then it disappears.

One final comment:
Here at LU, we like to keep things simple. We focus on what is imagined/conceptual/mental/thought story, and what is not.
We do not push towards any sort of "truth", aware as we are of the limitations of the human mind.

My use of the word "truth" was just another limited way our language has to express the end of ignorance about something.

You also say that the human mind has limitations.
I would love to hear how did you arrived to that awareness?

For what I know, feel and see, I just don't know.
If those limitations you talk about exist I have no idea what they exactly are and what they mean.
If they don't exist, I cannot know and I will never know, because they don't exist.

There is a physical separation between the human mind and the whole multiverse?
I personally don't see that separation.

Does the multiverse has limitations? Maybe yes, maybe not...impossible to know.
What even multiverse mean? Who knows.
I just can keep looking.

[Magdalena]

Hello, Cristiano,

I really hope that your effort here is not just focused on keep policing my use of single words, but to try to see beyond that…

I’m not trying to police your language. Not at all.
But, you see, if you don’t mean “point of view”, why use this phrase?
Trying to "see beyond words" is not about the interlocutor imagining things, is it?

… to try to see who i am…

No, my purpose is not at all to see who you are.
My purpose, like I said above, is to try and determine where clarity of “seeing” seems to be missing or incomplete, and assist with this matter. That’s all.
It’s actually rather impersonal.
For all intents and purposes, I could be an AI just as well.

…the meeting of two human beings, to know each others a bit, to talk, and also why not share silence, of course cannot be the same of a communication between the same two, by a back and forth of electronic messages. That's just a fact.

I read it as an opinion. Not that it matters though.
It is immaterial whether we meet or not, get to know each other or not, and so on.
My impression is that you’re after some sort of, how do I put it, connection on a personal level?
Sorry, but that’s not what is happening at this point.

…being aware of the non-existence of the self or not being aware…

Right. To the point then.
From your experience, how are the two different?
Can you say how this has affected and is affecting your relationships?
Can you say how it affects thoughts and feelings about you, when they are there?
Can you say how it affects thoughts and feelings about people?
Can you say how it affects thoughts and feelings about challenging situations?
Can you say how it affects your relationship with life in general?
Please give examples from before the seeing through the separate self and after.

I just choose to stay open to any possibility, open to the endless unknown. … Because it's literally impossible to know everything, anything is also possible :)

Agreed.

It's mostly an inner feeling, when the attention cannot perpetually stay into the absolute now, when being in presence is not absolute, some thoughts arise and slip away, then a fainted light feeling of time is felt inwardly.
But at the same TIME :) I look at it, I see it, and then it disappears.

I do get it that when looked into, something disappears.
What I don’t get is this talk about the absolute now or being in presence not being absolute. My guess is you may be talking about some deep meditative state, but is this accurate? I have no way of knowing. See my point?
I also cannot grasp what you mean by “a fainted light feeling of time … felt inwardly”. If you were to break it down to bodily sensations or mental processes, what would it be? Otherwise, how can you convey to me what it is that you label in this way?
Can you see my point? I have no way of relating to what you're trying to convey when it sounds abstract. Abstractions are fine when discussing poetry or philosophy, but that's not what we are doing here.

My use of the word "truth" was just another limited way our language has to express the end of ignorance about something.

Well, maybe, but the word “truth” does have some generally accepted dictionary meanings and chances are they don’t have much in common with “the end of ignorance” - unless a specific set of beliefs or ideology are taken into account.
See what I mean? I am trying to make our communication as precise as possible, that's all.

[Cree]

Hello again Magdalena

Please allow me for a moment to skip your new questions and to go directly to a point of
you replay that struck me particularly.

For all intents and purposes, I could be an AI just as well.

I really really REALLY hope you are not an AI :D
That said, on a more serious note, do you really believe that an AI would be
capable of discerning if a human being can be a "spiritual" guide to other human beings?

Is this your personal position or it's the one of the entire LU community of guides?

My impression is that you’re after some sort of, how do I put it, connection on a personal level?

I talked about two human beings meeting in real life, talking about these matters we're talking about here, that's it.
I think that I was very clear in explaining this.
Where did you see that I was aiming at something more "personal"?
I'm very curious.

You forgot answering to my question about the limitations of the mind.
I quote it again here so to give you this opportunity, because it's a very interesting point, and
I think important in our conversation:

One final comment:
Here at LU, we like to keep things simple. We focus on what is imagined/conceptual/mental/thought story, and what is not.
We do not push towards any sort of "truth", aware as we are of the limitations of the human mind.

And my answer with also question was:

You also say that the human mind has limitations.
I would love to hear how did you arrived to that awareness?

For what I know, feel and see, I just don't know.
If those limitations you talk about exist I have no idea what they exactly are and what they mean.
If they don't exist, I cannot know and I will never know, because they don't exist.

There is a physical separation between the human mind and the whole multiverse?
I personally don't see that separation.

Does the multiverse has limitations? Maybe yes, maybe not...impossible to know.
What even multiverse mean? Who knows.
I just can keep looking.

[Magdalena]

Hello again, Cristiano,

I really really REALLY hope you are not an AI :D

Not that it matters LOL. No, I’m not an AI.

do you really believe that an AI would be capable of discerning if a human being can be a "spiritual" guide to other human beings?
Is this your personal position or it's the one of the entire LU community of guides?

Look, Cristiano – these questions are off topic right now. They can be discussed in LU Facebook groups later on.

Where did you see that I was aiming at something more "personal"?

I'm very curious.
I didn’t mean "something personal”, but a connection with another human being that goes beyond the written communication on this forum.

… because it's a very interesting point, and I think important in our conversation

I don’t find it important right now.

I agree with what you say here:

For what I know, feel and see, I just don't know.
If those limitations you talk about exist I have no idea what they exactly are and what they mean.
If they don't exist, I cannot know and I will never know, because they don't exist.

There is a physical separation between the human mind and the whole multiverse?
I personally don't see that separation.

This assumes that something like “the multiverse” exists. I have no way of knowing that, and neither do you.

Does the multiverse has limitations? Maybe yes, maybe not...impossible to know.
What even multiverse mean? Who knows.
I just can keep looking.

Exactly.

You can proceed to your questions now. LOL

[Cree]

Hello Magdalene,
I'm really happy you're not an AI :)

do you really believe that an AI would be capable of discerning if a human being can be a "spiritual" guide to other human beings?
Is this your personal position or it's the one of the entire LU community of guides?

Look, Cristiano – these questions are off topic right now. They can be discussed in LU Facebook groups later on.

Magdalene, I'm sorry to disagree again.
I personally don't think these questions are off topic. Because your statement is pretty bold, and we're talking about a
community of people helping others and each others to go beyond what the large majority of people live through.
To help them to finally see beyond the illusion of the self and so on.

I personally see our discussion not only a way for you to understand if I can be a guide for others or not, but also
for me to know a bit more what LU is about. If I have to be or not a guide in your movement, it's important
for me to understand what is your way of dealing with the issues we're talking about.

That's why I asked if what you said was your personal position or the one of the entire LU community?

I agree with all the points LU publish about LU, but your statement about AI is something completely new and different.
It's very important for me to have an answer to my questions about that.

Why is it difficult for you to answer it? I think its a fairly simple question.

[Magdalena]

It's my way of stressing the impersonality of it all.
No guides that I know here are AI's.
Hope this answers your question.

[Cree]

Ok, so I guess yours was just a strong hyperbole?

I can see that, but following what you said to me - that words are important here,
so when I say "point of view" if I don't mean exactly that, it's better to use another word -
or when you say that you're trying to make our conversation as much as precise as possible -
if it's ok for you, in the coming posts I would ask to you the same accurate precision you ask me :)

So in truth you don't think that an AI can do the job you're doing with me here, right?