Go time!

[RhinoSpirit]

Hi Adam,

I think you’ll get the gist without me adding additional commentary.

Here is an exercise that examines the way in which the mind labels experience.

First 10 minutes
I am looking at clouds out window.
I am writing.
I am noticing thoughts.
I am feeling sensation in leg.
I am hearing stomach rumbling.
I am scratching nose.
I am listening to birds calling.
I am fidgeting.
I am feeling tightness in stomach.
I am looking at pattern on wallpaper.
I am scratching eye.
I am thinking.
I am scratching neck.
I am holding notepad.
I am inhaling air.
I am watching breath.
I am feeling face itch.
I am looking at picture on the wall.
I am scratching forehead.
I am listening to crows calling.
I am getting annoyed with itches.
I am looking at cloud.
I am watching watcher.
I am listening to plane in the sky.
I am rubbing feet together.
I am noticing writing getting worse.
I am noticing stomach tighten again.
I am hearing alarm ringing.

Second 10 minutes.
Hearing birds.
Hearing voices.
Breathing.
Writing.
Fidgeting.
Thinking.
Scratching.
Head tingling.
Looking at wallpaper.
Hearing train.
Itching forehead.
Watching clouds.
Stomach rumbling.
Doubting.
Stomach tightening.
Hearing ringing in ears.
Fiddling with pen.
Clock watching.

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

The second one describes how we experience more accurately but they felt exactly the same at the time. When doing things like this there is immediate anticipation of what the outcome should be, and often resistance and overthinking sets in. As I said the other day, the only way I know to deal with this is just to let it pass. This can’t pass though as I need to do the exercise in order to reply to you. This is clearly nonsense but that has been how the conditioning has worked here in the past and this morning.

2. What is here without labels?

What is, but that feels conceptual understanding at this point.

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

They just describe it.

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

No, restlessness and sensations for both.

[NoMansLand]

Nick,
Great work, as always. Keep going!

Only to the separate self.

And is the separate self real? The clarity is here already, just uncover it. Stay with direct experience. I know: frustration, doubt, looping, being in an echo chamber and all these emotions and stories might arise, but leave it alone. See it for what it is. Label it.

Like when you actually see what is happening right now. when you go to the direct experience.
Seeing, hearing, tasting, smelling, feeling, thoughts arising.
Is there an actual separate self in the "field of experience"?

So my direct experience of language is just thoughts, though something happens that pulls me into the story.

Let's try to find this "me" or "Nick" then.
Find a comfortable place to sit or lie.
Take in a few deep breaths to settle the dust and then relax for a bit.
Spend only 30 to 60 seconds on each component of this exercise.
Bring your awareness to your entire body - sense it fully, head to toe.
Run your hands down over your torso. Feel the solidity of it.
Now bring your awareness to your feet. Again, feel them. Move them a bit.
Then bring your awareness to your hands. Open and close them.
Bring your awareness to your face - all of it. Touch it with your hand.
Now point your index finger to where "Nick" is located.
Touch the exact location of "Nick".

Answer these questions:
Were you able to find and feel "Nick" in a direct way like the other parts of your
body?
Where is it?
What did you find? Something? Anything? Nothing?
What sensations did you feel in your body that identified "Nick” (If any)?

Tell me what you experienced and found, by way of direct experience.

I’ve long suspected not, but the middleman is cunning. It uses language to commentate about the “middleman” and its tricky to spot in the moment.

Yeah, commentary is what it is all about. But does the commentary change the game at all? Does it influence it?
Can the middleman be ACTUALLY cunning?
Have you ever met that middleman? Have you ever experienced that middleman?
Or is it just myth? An assumption that there must be one?
Is there an actual Santa Claus, or stories about Santa Claus?
Can middlemen USE language? Can the middleman actually DO anything?
What is the middleman in direct experience?

No, a thought cannot know or think about another thought.

Brilliant. That's a big one. Let it sink in.

Only the cunning use of language can give that illusion

Language does what it does. It's content. It has it's function, but it cannot DO anything by itself. Look!
It's not that it's cunning, or not cunning.
It's just a different perspective. An overlay.

What this whole investigation is about, is the fact that there is no separate self... No cunning self, no non-cunning self, no benevolent self. It's just not actually here. This is confirmed each time there is looking involved. It doesn't matter if a thought keeps saying that "I feel like a me", that might never stop – it’s just language. It will continue to arise. It's not gonna stop.

That's the difference between an ‘illusion” and a “delusion”.
Illusion is when something can be seen as something else, but the truth of what is real is known.
Delusion is when the illusion is believed to be true.

Have you seen a Kanitza triangle? It's a perfect example of the illusion of self:



When looking at the Kanizsa triangle, one sees the shape of a white, equilateral triangle in the center that appears to occlude the shapes around it. The nonexistent white triangle also appears to be brighter than the surrounding area, but in fact it has the same brightness as the background.

It feels like another layer (so separate) but it is all the same onion, there is just seeing with no separate experiencer.

Yes! Let that sink in. Is there anything that has to perceive it, or figure it out, or experience it?

When doing things like this there is immediate anticipation of what the outcome should be, and often resistance and overthinking sets in.

Sure. All natural, but it must be again seen for what it is.
What is that anticipation, but another expectation and a thought?

What is, but that feels conceptual understanding at this point.

And what implies it's "conceptual understanding at this point"?
When you say it "feels" like that. What is the actual feeling behind it? What is behind it?

No, restlessness and sensations for both.

What is that "restlessness" in direct experience?
What wants to get rid of that?

Best,
Adam

[RhinoSpirit]

Hi Adam,

And is the separate self real?

Definitely not.

The clarity is here already, just uncover it. Stay with direct experience. I know: frustration, doubt, looping, being in an echo chamber and all these emotions and stories might arise, but leave it alone. See it for what it is. Label it.

I hear you!!

Is there an actual separate self in the "field of experience"?

No, it is seen that there is no separate self but what see’s it feels like a thought, or a thought is claiming the seeing. Must be too subtle to be seen like it’s trying to be seen.

Were you able to find and feel "Nick" in a direct way like the other parts of your
body?

No.

Where is it?

It seems like it should be found in the skull but when I poke and prod that thing from different angles, every time it appears to be all around the contact point so it can’t be inside there.

What did you find? Something? Anything? Nothing?

Just thoughts.

What sensations did you feel in your body that identified "Nick” (If any)?

None.

But does the commentary change the game at all? Does it influence it?

No. It is what it is.

Can the middleman be ACTUALLY cunning?

No just another thought, so cannot itself be cunning although the process is.

Have you ever met that middleman?

I’m wanting to say no but that is the thing something here (another thought) is taking itself to be, so in some respect I have to say I have. The essence of the Ego scene from Revolver points to this.
https://youtu.be/hOEF1aOCLaE?si=tUmvYyaRHXaTYVSb

Have you ever experienced that middleman?

Same as above. Met and experienced sound like the same thing to me.

Or is it just myth? An assumption that there must be one?

It is also a clearly seen as myth and an assumption, which is what makes it all so weird.

Is there an actual Santa Claus, or stories about Santa Claus?

Just stories. That is just a lie agreed upon that comes from people though. What we are discussing is totally unique to each being.

Can middlemen USE language?

In a way as thought comes in the form of language.

Can the middleman actually DO anything?

Nothing, just tell stories.

What is the middleman in direct experience?

Simply thoughts.

Have you seen a Kanitza triangle?

Interesting, not seen that before.

Yes! Let that sink in. Is there anything that has to perceive it, or figure it out, or experience it?

No. It was just assumed that there was for so long.

What is that anticipation, but another expectation and a thought?

It is seen that’s it just a thought but it feels like it gets to a point where the system overloads.

And what implies it's "conceptual understanding at this point"?

Just a thought.

When you say it "feels" like that. What is the actual feeling behind it? What is behind it?

A thought believed in. An assumption of how it works. Nothing behind it.

What is that "restlessness" in direct experience?

Frustration that “I” can’t get it.

What wants to get rid of that?

A thought.


Labelling Exercise
Riding home
Seeing headlights, simply= image/color
Smelling Chinese take away, simply = smell
Feeling rain through visor, simply = sensation
Tasting water drops, simply = taste
Hearing someone shouting, simply = sound
Thought about traffic lights changing, simply = thought

[NoMansLand]

Hi Nick,
Excellent work. Again - I'll comment on some stories that arise, and more exercises inside.

Must be too subtle to be seen like it’s trying to be seen.

Let's work only with what we know, or can verify for sure. You say "it feels like a thought".
How does that feel then? What is the feeling in the "body"?
Or maybe it's just another story that arises and is taken literally - like a special kind of thought, that somehow is containing other thoughts? That there MUST be something subtle that somehow contains it all?

Can thoughts contain experience in a correct manner? Are thoughts 100% true?

It seems like it should be found in the skull but when I poke and prod that thing from different angles, every time it appears to be all around the contact point so it can’t be inside there.

Remember what we said about "seems" language. Seems = assumption. We must question the assumption.
It may be a habit to identify that sensation with a separate self, but is it anything more than a thought?
Is that an actual experience of separation?
What if it's just more qualities, sensations, and whatnot with a thought "this must be me because X reason"?
What are the implications then?

Let’s examine the solidity of the head.
Press a finger down onto the top of the ‘head’.
Notice what is actually present.
Is it a head, or is it just a sensation labelled ‘pressure’ and a story ABOUT a head?
Do the same with a finger on each side of the head.
Is a head actually found, or are there just sensations again?
And is there anything between the pressure points, or is it just a thought that says there
must be something between them?

I’m wanting to say no but that is the thing something here (another thought) is taking itself to be, so in some respect I have to say I have. The essence of the Ego scene from Revolver points to this.
https://youtu.be/hOEF1aOCLaE?si=tUmvYyaRHXaTYVSb

Thanks for sharing. Again. It's just a lot of assumptions - leave knowledge, intellect, and all the psychology for now.

I know thought content SEEMS important, but it's really NOT important for this investigation. I know that ego is demonized, or made into an actual enemy. But it's really just smoke and mirrors - thought content, a story to be enjoyed or discarded. You can keep going into this rabbit hole infinitely, or just see the content as irrelevant, and just more qualities that arise.

There are a lot of flavors of ice cream - vanilla, chocolate, strawberry etc.
At least attempt to treat thoughts and their content in this category. Like flavors. In the end it's just ice cream. It's just more qualities that arise. If they seem personal remember they just SEEM personal - they aren't ACTUALLY personal - or could ever be. That would imply you can somehow control thoughts, but I think we already explored that it's impossible.

Does thought/ego make any contact with other kinds of sense experience, such as sounds or sensations – or are they totally separate from each other?
Can it really device such a thing, or is it just another thought that says "I created all that, I am the deception and the illusion" "An ego is very elusive!"
What is that, but another piece of content that arises?
What makes this thought more important?
What is the feeling that arises?

It is also a clearly seen as myth and an assumption, which is what makes it all so weird.

It is kind of weird until it isn't! It's a simple shift in perception really. It's just looking for something until you realize it's not there and never was and never could've been. Once you see, the only thing that SEEMS to keep it there are stories. But it cannot REALLY do that.

Let’s say that you have lost your keys and you swear that you left them in your coat. You go to look and check all the pockets - the keys are not there. You swear they must be as that was the last place you remember them. You have a vivid memory of putting them there after you left the house. But when you check they are not there. At this point you can keep believing that the keys are in your pocket, or you can admit you were mistaken. This is just like that. You may see clearly that the self is an illusion but still feel a sense of self - just like the keys. But feeling something to be true and seeing that it is or is not is different. This is why we may find ourselves coming back to your expectations at the start and at the end.

Now, I’d like to ask you to explore this SENSE of self very-very thoroughly.
Not by thinking about it, but by FEELING it.
Keep the focus of attention on the sense of self and inquire:-
Does the sense of self have a location?
Does the sense of self have a shape or a size?
Does the sense of self say or communicate anything?
If the answer is yes, how does the sense do this exactly?
Does the sense of self have any characteristics or attributes?
What is the sense of self ‘made of’? An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? Thought?

Frustration that “I” can’t get it.

Can "I" get anything at all? Can a thought penetrate other parts of experience?

Keep going. You really got this, now it's just coming back to the direct experience and noticing what is and what isn't.

Best,
Adam

[RhinoSpirit]

Hi Adam,

Thanks for this - time to put on the big boy pants!!

Let's work only with what we know, or can verify for sure. You say "it feels like a thought".
How does that feel then?

Not intuitive.

What is the feeling in the "body"?

I lied, it’s not a feeling. I’ve just looked and it was a thought, and what it said is irrelevant as it’s just another story.

Or maybe it's just another story that arises and is taken literally - like a special kind of thought, that somehow is containing other thoughts?

Just a thought. I was going to say it was trying to make sense of what it can’t make sense of but that’s just another story. It was just a thought.

That there MUST be something subtle that somehow contains it all?

Yep, stories on top of stories.

Can thoughts contain experience in a correct manner?

No.

Are thoughts 100% true?

I don’t want to say they are all false but they are definitely not all true.

Remember what we said about "seems" language. Seems = assumption. We must question the assumption.

Yes, and seems means it is false. Like I heard someone say recently, if it’s raining we say it’s raining, we never say it seems to be raining.

It may be a habit to identify that sensation with a separate self, but is it anything more than a thought?

Nope, that’s all it can be.

Is that an actual experience of separation?

None whatsoever

What if it's just more qualities, sensations, and whatnot with a thought "this must be me because X reason"?

Yes the sensations are true but the thought is not.

What are the implications then?

If all thoughts are taken to be true, the implications don’t bear thinking about.

Is it a head, or is it just a sensation labelled ‘pressure’ and a story ABOUT a head?

It’s just a sensation and the only way I find a possible head, is if I go to memory and I’m actually having to engage that process in order to do so.

Do the same with a finger on each side of the head.
Is a head actually found, or are there just sensations again?

Just sensations.

And is there anything between the pressure points, or is it just a thought that says there
must be something between them?

Nothing but sensations.

Thanks for sharing. Again. It's just a lot of assumptions - leave knowledge, intellect, and all the psychology for now.

100% - laziness, avoidance and a bad habit just to tell stories. And I’m so lazy I don’t even tell my own stories, I like to share links to other peoples better stories!

You can keep going into this rabbit hole infinitely, or just see the content as irrelevant, and just more qualities that arise.

I’m a little bit tired from the games to be honest, second option sounds like the one!

If they seem personal remember they just SEEM personal - they aren't ACTUALLY personal - or could ever be.

Roger that!

Does thought/ego make any contact with other kinds of sense experience, such as sounds or sensations – or are they totally separate from each other?

How could it? They are totally separate. I’m sure you’ve told me this already and I hadn’t grasped it and looked for myself.

Can it really devise such a thing, or is it just another thought that says "I created all that, I am the deception and the illusion" "An ego is very elusive!"

That sounds familiar and it is all thought is capable of.

What is that, but another piece of content that arises?

Yes, it’s just the next thought.

What makes this thought more important?

All thoughts are the same, no hierarchy.

It's a simple shift in perception really.

This mind loves the shift in perception stories, it reversed, it flipped etc. I think that’s it’s No.1 fantasy but that is just a thought, and apart from the content no different than other mundane thoughts that don’t even register.

At this point you can keep believing that the keys are in your pocket, or you can admit you were mistaken.

I’ve probably set a few world records for checking pockets when direct experience has proved beyond doubt they are not there! You’d probably guessed that already though ;)

This is just like that. You may see clearly that the self is an illusion but still feel a sense of self - just like the keys.

With my history that analogy works super well.

Now, I’d like to ask you to explore this SENSE of self very-very thoroughly.
Not by thinking about it, but by FEELING it.
Keep the focus of attention on the sense of self and inquire:-

Does the sense of self have a location?

No location.

Does the sense of self have a shape or a size?

No shape. No size.

Does the sense of self say or communicate anything?

Nothing.

If the answer is yes, how does the sense do this exactly?

Communication can only come from thoughts.

Does the sense of self have any characteristics or attributes?

There is nothing to have characteristics or attributes.

What is the sense of self ‘made of’? An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? Thought?

It can only be made from thoughts. Even to say anything like contacted energy which I have tried on you before, is just made of thought.

Can "I" get anything at all?

There is no “I” to get anything.

Can a thought penetrate other parts of experience?

No.

Keep going. You really got this, now it's just coming back to the direct experience and noticing what is and what isn't.

Feeling more in tune with direct experience today. More able to decipher what it actually is, from thoughts about what it is or should be.

Labelling Exercise
Taking shower
Seeing pattern of water drops on shower door, simply = image/color
Smelling shampoo, simply = smell
Feeling water hit head, simply = sensation
Tasting soapy water, simply = taste
Hearing water hit shower tray, simply = sound
Thought about more space, simply = thought


Best regards,

Nick

[NoMansLand]

Nick,
Fantastic. There is even more honesty and clarity in your answers. Only you can do the looking. Seeing laziness and stories that go on the loop are a big part of that. Honesty is the name of the game really.

I don’t want to say they are all false but they are definitely not all true.

The fact they arise is indesputable. But the contents? IS the content EVER what actually is?

Let's do this:
Close your eyes and imagine holding a watermelon in your hands.
Imagine it so vividly that you can feel its weight, the shape and texture of the skin.
Hold it there, sensing it.
Then open your eyes.
What happened to the melon?
How about the sensation that was so believable?
Was there ever a melon in ‘reality’?
Was there an appearing mental image?
Was the content of the mental image (the melon) ‘real’?
The thoughts and mental images are real only as direct experiences of thoughts and mental images, their
appearance cannot be denied. However their ‘contents’, what they are about (like the watermelon) are not ‘real’, they are just fantasies.
Can you see this?

I’m a little bit tired from the games to be honest, second option sounds like the one!

I totally get it. Tired of seeking is a great spot to be in. Exhaust the seeking. There is no other way. Look, look and look.

This mind loves the shift in perception stories, it reversed, it flipped etc. I think that’s it’s No.1 fantasy but that is just a thought, and apart from the content no different than other mundane thoughts that don’t even register.

Yes. It's just another expectation of how "this" is supposed to look like. But "this" is what it is. There are always some expectations. Whenever they arise see them for what they are just like right now. A vision of the Big Bang, choirs of angels, and supernatural powers included and equally fabricated. :)

I’ve probably set a few world records for checking pockets when direct experience has proved beyond doubt they are not there! You’d probably guessed that already though ;)

You're doing great. Just keep looking. Any time you feel shame, unworthiness, or whatever frustration arises - see it for what it is, and keep looking. Fear too. All natural. All to be seen what what it is.

Even to say anything like contacted energy which I have tried on you before, is just made of thought.

Yes, it's just another concept that you won't find in reality.

Feeling more in tune with direct experience today. More able to decipher what it actually is, from thoughts about what it is or should be.

Nicee!!! Keep at it.

Let's keep going as thoughts seem to be clear for now.

The aim of the following exercise is to discover whether the function of choice can really be found or confirmed in actual experience. The idea of making ‘choices‘ is a very clear example of a function that we wrongly identify as the basis of our identity.

Here's what’s needed - a chair, a table and two different drinks.
Any two drinks you like are okay for this: coffee, tea, milk, water, juices, smoothies, beer, wine, etc.
Preparation - Place the two drinks side by side on the table in front of you, sit comfortably on the chair, and mentally label them as drink A and drink B.

Experiment - Finding the function of choice

Sit for a few moments, take a few relaxed breaths and let the dust settle.
When you feel ready:
1. Look at drink A and at drink B. Think about their respective qualities, the things you like about them, and compare and weigh the pros and cons of each. See if a preference is manifesting for one or the other.
2. Count to 5.
3. Choose one of the drinks. Pick it up and take a sip.

Questions:
Remember that we’re looking for some kind of function, a something, an ‘I’ which is doing the ‘choosing’.

In step 1 when thinking about their respective qualities, did you ‘choose’ the qualities? Or did they kind of appear by themselves? If some preferences manifested, did you ‘choose’ these preferences? Or did they just pop up by themselves?

In step 2 when you counted to 5, if the preferences took the back seat while the numbers took the front seat, did you ‘choose’ this sequence of event? Did you ‘choose’ to shut down the preferences to give way to the counting? Did you directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Have you seen this function in action?

In step 3 where you made a choice, did you actually witness or directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Did anything arise that announced, ‘I am the chooser’? If so, what does this function look like?
Sometimes we describe this sense of choosing as a ‘feeling’: It feels like ‘I’ did the ‘choosing’.

But the question is, can a feeling ‘choose’? Is it in the nature of a feeling to ‘choose’?

Best,
Adam

[RhinoSpirit]

Hi Adam,

What happened to the melon?

It disappeared.

How about the sensation that was so believable?

It also disappeared.

Was there ever a melon in ‘reality’?

No.

Was there an appearing mental image?

Yes.

Was the content of the mental image (the melon) ‘real’?

No.

The thoughts and mental images are real only as direct experiences of thoughts and mental images, their appearance cannot be denied. However their ‘contents’, what they are about (like the watermelon) are not ‘real’, they are just fantasies.
Can you see this?

There was doubt but that is just a thought, and this exercise makes it easy to confirm and see.

Tired of seeking is a great spot to be in. Exhaust the seeking. There is no other way. Look, look and look.

Yes, yes and yes.

Any time you feel shame, unworthiness, or whatever frustration arises - see it for what it is, and keep looking. Fear too. All natural. All to be seen what what it is.

Sounds good.

Experiment - Finding the function of choice
In step 1 when thinking about their respective qualities, did you ‘choose’ the qualities?
Or did they kind of appear by themselves?

They appeared as thoughts.

If some preferences manifested, did you ‘choose’ these preferences? Or did they just pop up by themselves?

No chooser, just choosing.

In step 2 when you counted to 5, if the preferences took the back seat while the numbers took the front seat, did you ‘choose’ this sequence of event?

No, it just happened.

Did you ‘choose’ to shut down the preferences to give way to the counting?

No, it just happened.

Did you directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Have you seen this function in action?

No function, just choosing.

In step 3 where you made a choice, did you actually witness or directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’?

No, a choice was just made.

Did anything arise that announced, ‘I am the chooser’? If so, what does this function look like?

No. A thought arose saying “I thought you were going to choose the other one, that’s typical you.” but it was just a thought, that was nothing to do with the “choosing”.

Sometimes we describe this sense of choosing as a ‘feeling’: It feels like ‘I’ did the ‘choosing’.
But the question is, can a feeling ‘choose’? Is it in the nature of a feeling to ‘choose’?

A feeling cannot choose anymore than a thought can think.


Best regards,

Nick

[NoMansLand]

Hi Nick,
Beautiful investigation. Let's close the choice investigation with this one small exercise:

1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.
2. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.
Watch like a hawk.
Don't go to thoughts – examine your direct experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:
How is the movement controlled?
Does a thought control it?
Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.
Who or what chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

And finally...
Although you see that there is no noticer/observer/witness, there may still be the feeling of identification of being the ‘doer’. That it still ‘feels’ like there is a self that is the ‘chooser’.

So let’s have a look at this as it has to do with the sense of seeing.
Take a few relaxed breaths to let the dust settle for a while, and then:
Look on your right.
Then look on your left.
Finally, bring your head back to centre, close your eyes and look in front.
Okay, so when you look on the right, the view on the right is seen (whatever that is).
When you look on the left, the view on the left is seen (whatever that is).
And then, when you look in front of you with eyes closed, the view in front is seen (ie ‘blackspace’).
So, when the view on the right is seen, do you have the ‘choice’ not to see? I’m not asking can you ‘choose’ to see something else like another view or ‘black space’ if you close your eyes.
The question is; can you turn seeing off? Can you NOT see what is seen?
Same thing with the view on the left, can you NOT see the view on the left?
Same thing with the view in front with closed eyes, can you NOT see the ‘black space’?
Can you turn off seeing?
What did the 'chooser' choose?
Did a 'self' choose something?
If you are unable to choose what you're aware of, then what else is there to choose?

Best,
Adam

[RhinoSpirit]

Thanks Adam,

Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:
How is the movement controlled?

It isn’t controlled, movement just happens.

Does a thought control it?

No. A thought can say it does but that doesn’t make it so.

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

No controller.

How is the decision made to turn the hand over?

No decision is made, it just happens.

Who or what chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

A thought said conditioning or habit but neither of those could be found. There is no chooser, the flipping of the hand just happened.

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

No separate individual, just a hand flipping.

So let’s have a look at this as it has to do with the sense of seeing.
So, when the view on the right is seen, do you have the ‘choice’ not to see?

Not possible.

The question is; can you turn seeing off? Can you NOT see what is seen?

No. You cannot not see what is seen.

Same thing with the view on the left, can you NOT see the view on the left?

It’s the same.

Same thing with the view in front with closed eyes, can you NOT see the ‘black space’?

I don’t see black space, I just don’t see anything.

Can you turn off seeing?

Not possible.

What did the 'chooser' choose?

No chooser. No choosing.

Did a 'self' choose something?

No self. No chooser.

If you are unable to choose what you're aware of, then what else is there to choose?

No me is located, never mind a me that could be a chooser.



Labelling Exercise
Looking at chestnut tree
Seeing leaves dancing in the wind, simply= image/color
Smelling flowers, simply = smell
Feeling neck tingling, simply = sensation
Tasting ice cream, simply = taste
Hearing birds singing, simply = sound
Thought about how green everything is, simply = thought


Best regards,

Nick

[NoMansLand]

Nick,
Brilliantly investigated.

At this point, it will be a good DE exercise to get out for an actual walk in nature and observe interconnectedness.
See how ALL is moving interdependently, including thinking and the senses.

Hold these questions in mind:
Is there anything that is separate from everything else?
Is there a border that divides “me” and “my body” from everything else, or is it just a thought?
Is that interdependent movement outside of you?
Is there an “inside” and an “outside”?
Is there an owner of being?
Are there others?
Is there an “I” in others?
Is there a “you”?

Best,
Adam

[RhinoSpirit]

Hi Adam,

Hold these questions in mind:

Is there anything that is separate from everything else?

Nothing separate can be found.

Is there a border that divides “me” and “my body” from everything else, or is it just a thought?

No border. Lots of thoughts but they are just thoughts.

Is that interdependent movement outside of you?

No outside can be found.

Is there an “inside” and an “outside”?

No inside. No outside. Just what is.

Is there an owner of being?

No owner.

Are there others?

No others can be found outside of thoughts.

Is there an “I” in others?

No I in others.

Is there a “you”?

No “me” can be found.


Not sure what to say about how this went. Lots of thoughts but they are just thoughts. Lots of doubts but they are just thoughts as well. Felt separate but couldn’t find separation so that was a thought as well.

Labelling Exercise
Watching sunrise
Seeing fog patches, simply= image/color
Smelling sea air, simply = smell
Feeling bum on bench, simply = sensation
Tasting toothpaste, simply = taste
Hearing waves on beach, simply = sound
Thought about what the moon is, simply = thought


Best regards,

Nick

[NoMansLand]

Hi Nick,
Well done. Smoothly sailed.

Onto the final exploration!
We have some traditional final questions.
Do you feel ready to receive them?
If you feel ready I will forward them and then send your answers to other guides to review.

Best,
Adam

[RhinoSpirit]

Hey Adam,

There are thoughts I’m not ready for final questions yet as “I’m” missing something but they are just thoughts. So I am totally happy to receive the final questions if you think now is the time for them - I’m just trying to be as honest as I can.

Best regards,

Nick

[NoMansLand]

Hi Nick,
You've proved clarity and honesty during the investigation, but whenever you're ready. No rush, it's not a competition.

Let's assess again…
What has changed and what hasn’t in normal everyday living.
What changes? What stays the same?
What is the biggest difference from before starting this conversation?
Is seeking still going on?
Is there any confusion at all or anything you would like to address?
Can you say with a big fat YES, it is clear what the illusion of a separate self is?
When the “I” has been seen through, fully and completely, what's left?

Do you have anything to add about this investigation? Just write down anything that is you want to address.

I'm here to help.
Best,
Adam

[NoMansLand]

PS. You mentioned seeing thoguhts as thoughts:

One more question:
What is that which sees thoughts as just thoughts?

Also - watch this video - it may help you out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJQcD58 ... luZw%3D%3D