Looking to find a self

[Harry1]

Hi Jon,

I suppose a lot of seeing and noticing has happened, but there is still doubt and a belief in a self coming up. I thought that would fall away once enough seeing through the illusion has happened.

Harry

[JonathanR]

Hi Harry

I suppose a lot of seeing and noticing has happened, but there is still doubt and a belief in a self coming up. I thought that would fall away once enough seeing through the illusion has happened.

That’s completely fair enough. It is important that there should be no remaining doubts and we will go into that now.

Given that belief in self and doubts are coming up, how is that manifesting? I mean, if it were a voice, what would it be saying by way of doubts?

In terms of thoughts, what are the ones that go with belief in self?

Could expectation that there should be some sort of special or ‘permanent’ experience be at root of doubts?


Love

Jon

[Harry1]

Hi Jon,

You’re bang on about expecting some sort of experience that finally confirms it.

Here are some thoughts that come up:

- “I'm wondering why my emotions are still so intense”
- “I hope I have a experience of oneness and freedom”
- “why haven't I see through it all yet”

Harry

[JonathanR]

Hi Harry

Good to hear from you and still in this spirit of getting down to ‘brass tacks’ which has been so noticeable recently. You’re tracking something down.

You’re bang on about expecting some sort of experience that finally confirms it.

Here are some thoughts that come up:

- “I'm wondering why my emotions are still so intense”
- “I hope I have a experience of oneness and freedom”
- “why haven't I see through it all yet”

Very good. It really helps to be completely frank about these thoughts. Let’s look at them in turn.

“I'm wondering why my emotions are still so intense”

I suggest it’s to do with an expectation that intense emotions should disappear or get ‘transcended’ ?

It doesn’t work like this at all (although sometimes this can be experienced for periods). The trouble is that people set this idea up as some sort of objective measure of success and then blab a lot about how they’ve experienced it. Which of course sets up expectations that stand in the way.

“I hope I have a experience of oneness and freedom”

This is perfectly understandable. Who would not want this?
And, it is not as if this cannot happen. But that’s very different from expecting it, demanding it That can be a real obstruction to natural openness and inquisitiveness.

why haven't I see through it all yet”

Well, very possibly for just these last two reasons. You’re on the edge of it though, right now.

Love

Jon

[Harry1]

Hi Jon,

Thanks for this. It clarifies things a lot.

I will keep a note of any other ‘expectations’ come up. I can see how expectations can obstruct noticing and cause confusion when they are not met.

What do you think I should look at next?

Harry

[JonathanR]

Hi Harry

I will keep a note of any other ‘expectations’ come up. I can see how expectations can obstruct noticing and cause confusion when they are not met.

Definitely. They can make it seem like something special must be experienced or self-inquiry “hasn’t worked”. This is nonsense and would be funny if it were not that it , and similar sorts of reasonings, are a catch 22.

There can be a corresponding lack of trust in what simply IS, right now for ever, the living experience.


You know, “it can’t be that simple “. (the reasoning goes). But what if it is? What if it always was and always will be?



Love

Jon

[Harry1]

Hi Jon,

Definitely. They can make it seem like something special must be experienced or self-inquiry “hasn’t worked”. This is nonsense and would be funny if it were not that it , and similar sorts of reasonings, are a catch 22

It’s also sort of mixed in with a craving for a peak experience. Like something transcendent. Interesting. Thinking certainly wants more. Thinking also thinks it can think itself into some sort of experience, if that makes sense.

You know, “it can’t be that simple “. (the reasoning goes). But what if it is? What if it always was and always will be?

I am ready to see, even a simple truth. I feel like there has already been so much seeing. What should I focus on next?

Thanks Jon.

Harry

[JonathanR]

Hi Harry

Thinking also thinks it can think itself into some sort of experience, if that makes sense

Yes it makes sense. It’s good to notice this. To notice as such is recognising how the illusion of self operates and keeps going.

I am ready to see, even a simple truth. I feel like there has already been so much seeing. What should I focus on next?

I suggest not trying, not forcing anything. Simply notice how thoughts appear and disappear, whatever stories unfold from these. But don’t make any particular effort to do it, it’ll just be interesting to notice that immediate experience, sensations, colours, touch, taste, smell, sound, all do really happen, whilst thoughts presents a kind of running commentary, none of which is really happening right now, nor “to”. “A self” …Ha ha ha

Love

Jon

[Harry1]

Hi Jon,

I have to say I haven't done much basic noticing. I've been going really deep into letting go of past trauma and painful experiences the last few weeks. It's been important for me to do.

I'd like to pick up this inquiry again by doing as you said noticing. Anything else I can be doing?

With thanks,
Harry

[JonathanR]

Hi Harry

I have to say I haven't done much basic noticing. I've been going really deep into letting go of past trauma and painful experiences the last few weeks. It's been important for me to do.

I'd like to pick up this inquiry again by doing as you said noticing. Anything else I can be doing?

Thank you for telling me this. I think what you have been doing is very important and very helpful to self-inquiry. To be quite honest, what you have been doing already involves quite a bit of noticing, feelings, thoughts, sensations. There is nothing I’d advise specifically. It’s important to feel free to notice whatever comes up, acknowledge it, allow it.


Let me know how things go.

Much love

Jon

[Harry1]

Hi Jon,

Things are going well. Noticing that through all this trauma processing self critical thinking is lessening. More space for self (Harry) love and confidence. Not sure how important those are for the inquiry.

The noticing of the illusion of the self happens spontaneously and automatically like everything else (movements, thoughts, emotions, feeling of self). But I'm not done yet it seems. What should I do next?

Harry

[JonathanR]

Hi Harry

Good to hear from you.

Things are going well. Noticing that through all this trauma processing self critical thinking is lessening. More space for self (Harry) love and confidence. Not sure how important those are for the inquiry.

Space, love and confidence are all very helpful. Let’s say these really oil the works.

The noticing of the illusion of the self happens spontaneously and automatically like everything else (movements, thoughts, emotions, feeling of self).

Very nice!

But I'm not done yet it seems. What should I do next?

Why are you asking me? It’s you who are telling me this. What makes you so sure?

What is supposed to change?

:-)

Jon

[Harry1]

Hi Jon,

The idea that I’m not done yet is a thought-belief arising mixed in with expectations that there will be some sort of moment-experience that will finally put this doubt to rest.

The expectation is that there will be less suffering and more of a special experience of my life. That there will be some sort of buffer against human experience. There may be an element of spiritual bypassing here. Although I am working towards feeling my emotions more fully and getting to the root of past traumas and memories.

Harry

[JonathanR]

Hi Harry

The idea that I’m not done yet is a thought-belief arising mixed in with expectations that there will be some sort of moment-experience that will finally put this doubt to rest

Doubt can be put to rest but waiting for a special sort of experience to appear will not help. In fact, that’s where the doubt lurks, “Why isn’t The Experience happening”?

The expectation is that there will be less suffering and more of a special experience of my life. That there will be some sort of buffer against human experience.

These are significant conditions to place upon what is already here, already happening. But it is very good to notice these.

Is there really a “my life” , as such?

I am working towards feeling my emotions more fully and getting to the root of past traumas and memories.

It sounds helpful.


Love

Jon

[Harry1]

Hi Jon,

Nothing much to report. I've continued to work on my self love practice and trauma processing which is good.

Noticing a lot of automatic beliefs come up about what awakening will do. Trying to ignore these. They're not really in ‘my’ control anyways.

I'm not sure I can answer the question is ‘there a my life as such’. There is the appearance of living. Thoughts about a me, feelings which make it seem real, beliefs, a body moving around doing things, typing on this phone etc.

There seems to be a lot of automatic noticing of thought-feelings about a me but that is the extent of it.

Harry