Hello Elad -
How good just to reconnect this way. Thank you for your response.
The coming weekend is a three-day holiday weekend in the U.S.; might you have any unclaimed spots in your schedule in the next three days that might work for you? Please let me know what might work best in your life and schedule when you have a moment. If nothing works in the next three days, perhaps we can find time in the coming work week.
Thanks again - I look forward to hearing from you.
Best wishes from
Josh
Hello!-JoshO
Re: Hello!-JoshO
Hi Joshua. Good to hear from you. Yes I am here and we can start up with a video session. Send me a couple of time options? Warmly, EladDear Elad –
Greetings after what has turned into an absurdly too-long time. I hope this note finds you very well, and that you will forgive my silence here if indeed forgiveness is called for. Thank you again, very much, for all of the effort you gave to guiding me throughout our several months of correspondence and conversation in the last part of 2023 and the beginning of 2024.
I’ve wanted to circle back for what has turned into weeks now, to make contact and to renew our work. I won’t take time now to formulate any explanation of how things have come to pass as they have, but this pause has extended for far too long. I want and have been meaning to touch base with you, check in, thank you again, and consider the best way forward from here for I can’t say how long now.
When you and I last corresponded, you suggested a number of exercises, as well as that I review our entire correspondence and take stock, notice when things worked, where I felt they hadn’t, something along those lines. I confess I have not (yet) done that review, but I can no longer wait till it’s done to write to you again.
Would you consider another video-session along the lines of our last one, to reconnect and to consider together how best to proceed from here?
As mentioned, I hope this finds you very well, and I look forward to hearing from you.
Respectfully and with thanks from
Josh(ua)
Hi Joshua,
I thought it might be good at this point to give you the final LU questions. Not assuming it is time - could be, could not be, but just to get a feel. So if you are up for it please answer the following. If the questions seem relatively clear I might share with three other guides for questions and feedback. If there is still a lot that could be worked on, this will just function like be a "midway questionnaire". Please remember when these questions ask about self they refer to a separate and findable self that is apart from direct experience and can control direct experience. They do not just use the word self or true self, used as a name for the mystery beyond names, like you I believe you did some times on the zoom call.
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Re: Hello!-JoshO
Please answer the following questions in one message. Make sure you answer each one below "ANSWER" so it is easy for the other guides to track what questions you are answering individually. Make sure to answer all questions. Take all the time you need and enjoy. After recieving your answer maybe we will inquire more together or maybe 3 other guides will have some things to inquire into with you. After that you and I will talk about onwards, lovely opportunities to stay in touch and exchange with "like-minded/hearted". Remember, answer only from direct experience, not from conviction or past experience. If something doesn't feel possible to answer, stay honest to that. Keep it simple and real. Enjoy.
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
ANSWER:
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
ANSWER:
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before we started this dialogue? Please report from the past couple of days.
ANSWER:
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?
ANSWER:
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control.
ANSWER:
6) What makes things happen? How does it work?
ANSWER:
7) What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
ANSWER:
6) Anything to add?
ANSWER:
Show quoted text
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
ANSWER:
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
ANSWER:
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before we started this dialogue? Please report from the past couple of days.
ANSWER:
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?
ANSWER:
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control.
ANSWER:
6) What makes things happen? How does it work?
ANSWER:
7) What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
ANSWER:
6) Anything to add?
ANSWER:
Show quoted text
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Re: Hello!-JoshO
Dear Elad -
I was and am delighted to receive your message of today — I’m very glad to have reconnected and to be “back in” our conversation, or at least to have begun to be back in it.
I’m writing at the moment at the very end of a long day in which I was not able to get to the responses that you invited in your most recent message. I did just want to send a note greeting and thanks and to let you know that I am looking forward to addressing the questions as you’ve posed them. Without looking at them very deeply just at this moment, I don’t have the feeling that I am “through” at this point, but I was so glad to have our session the other day and to have had the chance to catch up and to look at things together as we did. I will circle back to the questions you’ve just posed as soon as possible and look forward to all next steps in this journey/process/conversation.
Till shortly then! Thanks and best wishes meanwhile from
Josh(ua)
I was and am delighted to receive your message of today — I’m very glad to have reconnected and to be “back in” our conversation, or at least to have begun to be back in it.
I’m writing at the moment at the very end of a long day in which I was not able to get to the responses that you invited in your most recent message. I did just want to send a note greeting and thanks and to let you know that I am looking forward to addressing the questions as you’ve posed them. Without looking at them very deeply just at this moment, I don’t have the feeling that I am “through” at this point, but I was so glad to have our session the other day and to have had the chance to catch up and to look at things together as we did. I will circle back to the questions you’ve just posed as soon as possible and look forward to all next steps in this journey/process/conversation.
Till shortly then! Thanks and best wishes meanwhile from
Josh(ua)
Re: Hello!-JoshO
Good to see you too!Dear Elad -
I was and am delighted to receive your message of today — I’m very glad to have reconnected and to be “back in” our conversation, or at least to have begun to be back in it.
I’m writing at the moment at the very end of a long day in which I was not able to get to the responses that you invited in your most recent message. I did just want to send a note greeting and thanks and to let you know that I am looking forward to addressing the questions as you’ve posed them. Without looking at them very deeply just at this moment, I don’t have the feeling that I am “through” at this point, but I was so glad to have our session the other day and to have had the chance to catch up and to look at things together as we did. I will circle back to the questions you’ve just posed as soon as possible and look forward to all next steps in this journey/process/conversation.
Till shortly then! Thanks and best wishes meanwhile from
Josh(ua)
When you answer remember not to do it based on what you think you see. Don't base it on *thoughts* (including memories) about what insights you have had or not, or how you remember your life to be in the last period (or even last minutes). And also don't base it on expectations about how seeing will feel, what changes will come with it. Only base your answer on **direct experience**.
Remember direct experience is just the five senses and awareness of thoughts - but not any of the content of thoughts.
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Re: Hello!-JoshO
Greetings Elad -
My attempt(s) to respond to your request may be found below:
"Please answer the following questions in one message. Make sure you answer each one below "ANSWER" so it is easy for the other guides to track what questions you are answering individually. Make sure to answer all questions. Take all the time you need and enjoy. After recieving your answer maybe we will inquire more together or maybe 3 other guides will have some things to inquire into with you. After that you and I will talk about onwards, lovely opportunities to stay in touch and exchange with "like-minded/hearted". Remember, answer only from direct experience, not from conviction or past experience. If something doesn't feel possible to answer, stay honest to that. Keep it simple and real. Enjoy.
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
ANSWER:
Please answer the following questions in one message. Make sure you answer each one below "ANSWER" so it is easy for the other guides to track what questions you are answering individually. Make sure to answer all questions. Take all the time you need and enjoy. After recieving your answer maybe we will inquire more together or maybe 3 other guides will have some things to inquire into with you. After that you and I will talk about onwards, lovely opportunities to stay in touch and exchange with "like-minded/hearted". Remember, answer only from direct experience, not from conviction or past experience. If something doesn't feel possible to answer, stay honest to that. Keep it simple and real. Enjoy.
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
ANSWER:
There is no findable separate self that is apart from direct experience and/or that can control direct experience. There never was, but it sure felt like there was.
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
ANSWER:
The experience of the illusion of the separate self, as it appears here in daily living, appears to be a dynamic phenomenon that some long time ago came into (temporary) existence as the probably unavoidable byproduct of the process of socialization/upbringing. One is given and grows accustomed to identifying with a name, a body/mind conglomerate to which that name has been assigned, and the experiences of life on earth that body/mind lives through, which then become the stories/history of that "person" (illusory sense of self). The illusion does not have its own inherent existence, so to keep it up requires constant bolstering and defending ("selfing"). The effort to maintain and/or (if possible) enlarge/strengthen that "self-image" and to keep it from getting nicked or punctured or deflated becomes constant. On one's own -- when one identifies with or believes that conglomerate IS ones' actual self -- one never seeks for it to be cracked or broken open, but somehow Life cracks or breaks it open anyway. The cracks are, as I think Leonard Cohen said, where the light shines through. That light is what was being pointed to by the words "true self" the other day, Elad, that which you called "the mystery beyond names." Seeing that that mystery is what is actually alive here, and that the body/mind conglomerate is something like a disguise (especially to oneself, until one sees through that disguise), and then entering what appears to be a process of learning to allow that Unnameable mystery to live a human life freely through this temporary body/mind form, seem to me at this point to be what has been happening on this path/project.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before we started this dialogue? Please report from the past couple of days.
ANSWER:
It feels good to have the sense described above, but it's not the same, I suspect, to have glimpsed that glimpse or even to bathe for some minutes in it every day (in my case, recently and most reliably, by means of meditation practice), as to be fully free of any identification with the disguise, with the egoic habit(s) of living. The hope here is to learn to live as fully freely as possible, truly to breathe free, free of the cramped, clutching, fearful, mind-based habits one learned "to manage" to live by in the first stage of life.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?
ANSWER:
I'm not really sure how to answer this question, or if I belong answering this question.
Tremendous benefit/breaking open was experienced in the course of a five-day Zen sesshin in March 2023; more recently, daily sitting meditation plus the work of LU we've done together brought things farther along. In the last couple of months, I've been working on things solo, without an active conversation going on with you or any other guide or teacher. Somehow in this last chapter, access to what I earlier called "the true self" went from being something that had been "tasted" briefly and erratically via many different practices or avenues over several decades -- never then reliably -- to something that could more reliably be "accessed" (or maybe which can more reliably gain access to "me") through the "practice of surrender," which is more or less what daily sitting meditation practice feels like it has become.
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control.
ANSWER:
I still experience all of those as if I had them. I also feel like I am person who exists.
6) What makes things happen? How does it work?
ANSWER:
I don't know. Apparently separate "things happen." I strongly suspect that no apparently separate thing or event is actually separate from any other apparently separate thing or event - but this is my brain talking. I don't know how it all works. Again, more thoughts. My brain's belief is that THIS NOW is the only thing there is, and that it always is, and that it is in constant flux. Radiance that is present always, never static ever. But this may be my reading cropping up again here.
7) What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
ANSWER:
I don't know the answer to this question either. Not sure. Not trying to cop out here. I don't know.
6) Anything to add?
ANSWER:
Somehow I simultaneously feel like seeking is no longer here in the same it's always been... and yet also that I want to keep "walking in this direction, to get ." I don't know what more to say about that at the moment.
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
ANSWER:The experience of the illusion of the separate self, as it appears here in daily living, appears to be a dynamic phenomenon that some long time ago came into (temporary) existence as the probably unavoidable byproduct of the process of socialization/upbringing. One is given and grows accustomed to identifying with a name, there is a body/mind conglomerate to which that name has been assigned, and there are experiences that body/mind lives through, which then become the stories/history of that "person" (with its illusory sense of self). The illusion does not exist inherently on its own, so to keep it up requires constant bolstering and defending ("selfing"). The effort to maintain and/or enlarge that "self-image" and to keep it from getting nicked or punctured or deflated becomes constant. On its own (when one identifies with or believes one IS that "self"), one never seeks for it to be cracked or broken open, but somehow in the course of life it is cracked or broken open. The cracks turn out to be, as I think Leonard Cohen said, where the light can shine through. That light is what I was pointing to with the words "true self" the other day, Elad, that to which you referred as "the mystery beyond names." Seeing that that mystery is what is actually alive here, seeing that the body/mind conglomerate is something like a disguise (especially to oneself, until one comes to see through that disguise), and then entering what appears to be a process of learning to allow the Unnameable to live a human life freely through this temporary body/mind form, seem to me at this point to be what has been happening on this path/project.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before we started this dialogue? Please report from the past couple of days.
ANSWER:
It feels good to have the sense described above, but it's not the same, I suspect, to have glimpsed that truth or even to soak in it for a good span of time daily (in my case, most recently and most reliably by means of meditation practice), as opposed to actually being fully free of identification with the disguise, with its egoic habit(s) of living. My feeling is that I want to learn to live as freely as possible, to breathe free, to be free of the clutching, fearful, mind-based habits I learned to live by in the first stage of life.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?
ANSWER:
I'm not really sure how to answer this question. Tremendous benefit/breaking open was experienced in the course of a five-day Zen sesshin in March 2023; more recently, daily sitting meditation plus the work of LU that we've done together feels as if it's brought things farther along. In the last couple of months, I've been working solo, without an active conversation with you or any other guide or teacher. Yet somehow in this most recent chapter, access to or of what earlier got called "the true self" went from being something that had happened "accidentally," via unplanned, almost "accidental" glimpses or openings-up catalyzed by a variety of practices over several decades -- though never reliably -- to something that could more reliably be "accessed" or "allowed" through the "practice of surrender," which is more or less what daily sitting meditation practice appears to have become.
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control.
ANSWER:
I still experience all of those as if I had them but "suspect" that all are illusory. "Suspect" is the verb that somehow got chosen by something here to describe the way it feels to "me."
6) What makes things happen? How does it work?
ANSWER:
I don't know. Apparently separate "things happen." I strongly suspect that no apparently separate thing or event is truly, actually separate from any other apparently separate thing or event. Yes, this is my brain talking. I don't know how it all works. Again, those are more thoughts. My brain's belief is that HERE/NOW is the only place and time there is, that it always is, and that it is in constant flux. Radiance that is present always, never static ever. But this may be my reading cropping up again here.
7) What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
ANSWER:I don't know the answer to this question either. Not sure. Not trying to cop out, here, BTW.
6) Anything to add?
ANSWER:
Somehow I simultaneously feel like seeking is no longer here in the same way and yet also that I want to keep "walking in this direction." I don't know what more to say about that at the moment.
Good evening Elad. I hope I haven't embarrassed myself or you here. I haven't yet read over our whole previous 2023 conversation but will do so if you still think it a wise or worthwhile step at this point. I look forward to hearing from you.
Best wishes from
Josh(ua)
My attempt(s) to respond to your request may be found below:
"Please answer the following questions in one message. Make sure you answer each one below "ANSWER" so it is easy for the other guides to track what questions you are answering individually. Make sure to answer all questions. Take all the time you need and enjoy. After recieving your answer maybe we will inquire more together or maybe 3 other guides will have some things to inquire into with you. After that you and I will talk about onwards, lovely opportunities to stay in touch and exchange with "like-minded/hearted". Remember, answer only from direct experience, not from conviction or past experience. If something doesn't feel possible to answer, stay honest to that. Keep it simple and real. Enjoy.
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
ANSWER:
Please answer the following questions in one message. Make sure you answer each one below "ANSWER" so it is easy for the other guides to track what questions you are answering individually. Make sure to answer all questions. Take all the time you need and enjoy. After recieving your answer maybe we will inquire more together or maybe 3 other guides will have some things to inquire into with you. After that you and I will talk about onwards, lovely opportunities to stay in touch and exchange with "like-minded/hearted". Remember, answer only from direct experience, not from conviction or past experience. If something doesn't feel possible to answer, stay honest to that. Keep it simple and real. Enjoy.
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
ANSWER:
There is no findable separate self that is apart from direct experience and/or that can control direct experience. There never was, but it sure felt like there was.
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
ANSWER:
The experience of the illusion of the separate self, as it appears here in daily living, appears to be a dynamic phenomenon that some long time ago came into (temporary) existence as the probably unavoidable byproduct of the process of socialization/upbringing. One is given and grows accustomed to identifying with a name, a body/mind conglomerate to which that name has been assigned, and the experiences of life on earth that body/mind lives through, which then become the stories/history of that "person" (illusory sense of self). The illusion does not have its own inherent existence, so to keep it up requires constant bolstering and defending ("selfing"). The effort to maintain and/or (if possible) enlarge/strengthen that "self-image" and to keep it from getting nicked or punctured or deflated becomes constant. On one's own -- when one identifies with or believes that conglomerate IS ones' actual self -- one never seeks for it to be cracked or broken open, but somehow Life cracks or breaks it open anyway. The cracks are, as I think Leonard Cohen said, where the light shines through. That light is what was being pointed to by the words "true self" the other day, Elad, that which you called "the mystery beyond names." Seeing that that mystery is what is actually alive here, and that the body/mind conglomerate is something like a disguise (especially to oneself, until one sees through that disguise), and then entering what appears to be a process of learning to allow that Unnameable mystery to live a human life freely through this temporary body/mind form, seem to me at this point to be what has been happening on this path/project.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before we started this dialogue? Please report from the past couple of days.
ANSWER:
It feels good to have the sense described above, but it's not the same, I suspect, to have glimpsed that glimpse or even to bathe for some minutes in it every day (in my case, recently and most reliably, by means of meditation practice), as to be fully free of any identification with the disguise, with the egoic habit(s) of living. The hope here is to learn to live as fully freely as possible, truly to breathe free, free of the cramped, clutching, fearful, mind-based habits one learned "to manage" to live by in the first stage of life.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?
ANSWER:
I'm not really sure how to answer this question, or if I belong answering this question.
Tremendous benefit/breaking open was experienced in the course of a five-day Zen sesshin in March 2023; more recently, daily sitting meditation plus the work of LU we've done together brought things farther along. In the last couple of months, I've been working on things solo, without an active conversation going on with you or any other guide or teacher. Somehow in this last chapter, access to what I earlier called "the true self" went from being something that had been "tasted" briefly and erratically via many different practices or avenues over several decades -- never then reliably -- to something that could more reliably be "accessed" (or maybe which can more reliably gain access to "me") through the "practice of surrender," which is more or less what daily sitting meditation practice feels like it has become.
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control.
ANSWER:
I still experience all of those as if I had them. I also feel like I am person who exists.
6) What makes things happen? How does it work?
ANSWER:
I don't know. Apparently separate "things happen." I strongly suspect that no apparently separate thing or event is actually separate from any other apparently separate thing or event - but this is my brain talking. I don't know how it all works. Again, more thoughts. My brain's belief is that THIS NOW is the only thing there is, and that it always is, and that it is in constant flux. Radiance that is present always, never static ever. But this may be my reading cropping up again here.
7) What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
ANSWER:
I don't know the answer to this question either. Not sure. Not trying to cop out here. I don't know.
6) Anything to add?
ANSWER:
Somehow I simultaneously feel like seeking is no longer here in the same it's always been... and yet also that I want to keep "walking in this direction, to get ." I don't know what more to say about that at the moment.
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
ANSWER:The experience of the illusion of the separate self, as it appears here in daily living, appears to be a dynamic phenomenon that some long time ago came into (temporary) existence as the probably unavoidable byproduct of the process of socialization/upbringing. One is given and grows accustomed to identifying with a name, there is a body/mind conglomerate to which that name has been assigned, and there are experiences that body/mind lives through, which then become the stories/history of that "person" (with its illusory sense of self). The illusion does not exist inherently on its own, so to keep it up requires constant bolstering and defending ("selfing"). The effort to maintain and/or enlarge that "self-image" and to keep it from getting nicked or punctured or deflated becomes constant. On its own (when one identifies with or believes one IS that "self"), one never seeks for it to be cracked or broken open, but somehow in the course of life it is cracked or broken open. The cracks turn out to be, as I think Leonard Cohen said, where the light can shine through. That light is what I was pointing to with the words "true self" the other day, Elad, that to which you referred as "the mystery beyond names." Seeing that that mystery is what is actually alive here, seeing that the body/mind conglomerate is something like a disguise (especially to oneself, until one comes to see through that disguise), and then entering what appears to be a process of learning to allow the Unnameable to live a human life freely through this temporary body/mind form, seem to me at this point to be what has been happening on this path/project.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before we started this dialogue? Please report from the past couple of days.
ANSWER:
It feels good to have the sense described above, but it's not the same, I suspect, to have glimpsed that truth or even to soak in it for a good span of time daily (in my case, most recently and most reliably by means of meditation practice), as opposed to actually being fully free of identification with the disguise, with its egoic habit(s) of living. My feeling is that I want to learn to live as freely as possible, to breathe free, to be free of the clutching, fearful, mind-based habits I learned to live by in the first stage of life.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?
ANSWER:
I'm not really sure how to answer this question. Tremendous benefit/breaking open was experienced in the course of a five-day Zen sesshin in March 2023; more recently, daily sitting meditation plus the work of LU that we've done together feels as if it's brought things farther along. In the last couple of months, I've been working solo, without an active conversation with you or any other guide or teacher. Yet somehow in this most recent chapter, access to or of what earlier got called "the true self" went from being something that had happened "accidentally," via unplanned, almost "accidental" glimpses or openings-up catalyzed by a variety of practices over several decades -- though never reliably -- to something that could more reliably be "accessed" or "allowed" through the "practice of surrender," which is more or less what daily sitting meditation practice appears to have become.
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control.
ANSWER:
I still experience all of those as if I had them but "suspect" that all are illusory. "Suspect" is the verb that somehow got chosen by something here to describe the way it feels to "me."
6) What makes things happen? How does it work?
ANSWER:
I don't know. Apparently separate "things happen." I strongly suspect that no apparently separate thing or event is truly, actually separate from any other apparently separate thing or event. Yes, this is my brain talking. I don't know how it all works. Again, those are more thoughts. My brain's belief is that HERE/NOW is the only place and time there is, that it always is, and that it is in constant flux. Radiance that is present always, never static ever. But this may be my reading cropping up again here.
7) What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
ANSWER:I don't know the answer to this question either. Not sure. Not trying to cop out, here, BTW.
6) Anything to add?
ANSWER:
Somehow I simultaneously feel like seeking is no longer here in the same way and yet also that I want to keep "walking in this direction." I don't know what more to say about that at the moment.
Good evening Elad. I hope I haven't embarrassed myself or you here. I haven't yet read over our whole previous 2023 conversation but will do so if you still think it a wise or worthwhile step at this point. I look forward to hearing from you.
Best wishes from
Josh(ua)
Re: Hello!-JoshO
Hi Josh, thank you for your sincere responses. Yes, I do think that it would be helpful for you to read over our correspondence and particularly look for:
When was something seen clearer and what?
What questions/practices/pointers were helpful and how.
I will not share this in the guide forum yet, it's not time for that. I will get input from one other guide, just extra heart and eyes on the process so far. Will let you know what he has to say too.
In terms of your responses the most important aspects to me seem to be:
1) the sense seeking is not there in the same way while practice and aspiration for clarity and heart continues. Can you say more about that?
2) seems to me you describe no insight into the nonexistence of separate agency, control and choice. Things you earlier described some significant while passing experiential insights into. You only describe the continued identification with choosing controlling agent.
When was something seen clearer and what?
What questions/practices/pointers were helpful and how.
I will not share this in the guide forum yet, it's not time for that. I will get input from one other guide, just extra heart and eyes on the process so far. Will let you know what he has to say too.
In terms of your responses the most important aspects to me seem to be:
1) the sense seeking is not there in the same way while practice and aspiration for clarity and heart continues. Can you say more about that?
2) seems to me you describe no insight into the nonexistence of separate agency, control and choice. Things you earlier described some significant while passing experiential insights into. You only describe the continued identification with choosing controlling agent.
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Re: Hello!-JoshO
Fellow guide Jeff wrote:
I like that Josh is so honest and sincere. I think, like most of us coming to LU, he has had glimpses. His answer to: Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control: "I still experience all of those as if I had them but "suspect" that all are illusory. "Suspect" is the verb that somehow got chosen by something here to describe the way it feels to "me."" This answer is not satisfactory to me. Have you done the pertinent exercises with him?
If there is a thought that I'm going to ride my bicycle and then I ride it, how do I know that the thought caused me to go riding? Only a thought says so. And, phenomenally, the thought is only a mental image or sound. How do I know that a mental image or sound made something happen? Only a thought says so. So I'm thinking it might be good to redo some of those exercises and let him investigate why he still has a vestigial belief that there's such a thing as choice or agency (rather than those words designating stories to explain something that's a complete mystery).
----
As for exercises Jeff is referring to exercises we did at different points that look into how is choice actually happening, is there control over thoughts, movements, attention, etc.
I like that Josh is so honest and sincere. I think, like most of us coming to LU, he has had glimpses. His answer to: Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control: "I still experience all of those as if I had them but "suspect" that all are illusory. "Suspect" is the verb that somehow got chosen by something here to describe the way it feels to "me."" This answer is not satisfactory to me. Have you done the pertinent exercises with him?
If there is a thought that I'm going to ride my bicycle and then I ride it, how do I know that the thought caused me to go riding? Only a thought says so. And, phenomenally, the thought is only a mental image or sound. How do I know that a mental image or sound made something happen? Only a thought says so. So I'm thinking it might be good to redo some of those exercises and let him investigate why he still has a vestigial belief that there's such a thing as choice or agency (rather than those words designating stories to explain something that's a complete mystery).
----
As for exercises Jeff is referring to exercises we did at different points that look into how is choice actually happening, is there control over thoughts, movements, attention, etc.
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Re: Hello!-JoshO
Dear Elad -
I hope this finds you very well. I have been meaning to write and check back in for a little while now at least. Here's the latest:
What feels like very good work indeed has been happening recently, centered on the practice of meditation, which appears to be bearing fruit in ways that both comport exactly with all of the looking and studying and searching and reading and wondering and yearning that has happened over many years, and at the same time feels quite wonderfully new, like all those descriptions from others are making sense and are more directly comprehensible.
Anyway, that's already almost too many words at the moment. I apologize for not having read over our correspondence as you suggested last time, but I would very much like to set up another video session if that would be OK with you. Would you let me know if that would be OK with you, and if so when you might have time for it?
Thank you so much for all your kind attention, Elad. I hope to hear from you when you have a moment.
With best wishes from
Josh(ua)
I hope this finds you very well. I have been meaning to write and check back in for a little while now at least. Here's the latest:
What feels like very good work indeed has been happening recently, centered on the practice of meditation, which appears to be bearing fruit in ways that both comport exactly with all of the looking and studying and searching and reading and wondering and yearning that has happened over many years, and at the same time feels quite wonderfully new, like all those descriptions from others are making sense and are more directly comprehensible.
Anyway, that's already almost too many words at the moment. I apologize for not having read over our correspondence as you suggested last time, but I would very much like to set up another video session if that would be OK with you. Would you let me know if that would be OK with you, and if so when you might have time for it?
Thank you so much for all your kind attention, Elad. I hope to hear from you when you have a moment.
With best wishes from
Josh(ua)
Re: Hello!-JoshO
Hi Joshua, lovely to hear this, and good to hear from you! Yes, let's coordinate a time in the emails. I'll send you a couple of suggestions there.Dear Elad -
I hope this finds you very well. I have been meaning to write and check back in for a little while now at least. Here's the latest:
What feels like very good work indeed has been happening recently, centered on the practice of meditation, which appears to be bearing fruit in ways that both comport exactly with all of the looking and studying and searching and reading and wondering and yearning that has happened over many years, and at the same time feels quite wonderfully new, like all those descriptions from others are making sense and are more directly comprehensible.
Anyway, that's already almost too many words at the moment. I apologize for not having read over our correspondence as you suggested last time, but I would very much like to set up another video session if that would be OK with you. Would you let me know if that would be OK with you, and if so when you might have time for it?
Thank you so much for all your kind attention, Elad. I hope to hear from you when you have a moment.
With best wishes from
Josh(ua)
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Re: Hello!-JoshO
Hi Joshua,
The other day I read this post by fellow senior guide Christiane Michelberger; I had the thought it might be beneficial for your process:
I Can’t Find a Self - There Is No Self. Right?
Wrong.
Not finding something doesn’t prove its non-existence, it just proves that you can’t find it.
In preparation for my book “How to See Through the Self-Illusion” (to be published May 2024), I guided in this step again, read many dialogues between seekers and guides and also mentored several people who are guiding in this step. Most dialogues are prematurely finished at the point when the seeker doesn’t find a self. The seeker and maybe the guide assume, this must be it, not knowing what else could come.
The fundamental error in this assessment is that not finding a self and concluding it doesn’t exist is a conceptual answer. The real answer is a sensate experience.
Doubt about having seen through the self-illusion will creep in quickly and the whole search starts all over again. The doubt is valid, take it seriously and don’t try to cure it. It will be cured by the right answer.
The right answer will not be given by YOU. The answer is a revelation, most often at a time of relaxation outside of the inquiry. Exploring the self-illusion prepares the ground for the revelation to happen.
To let the answer be revealed, the inquiry has to go through 4 stages.
I. What do I call “Me”?
It starts with finding out which belief you are looking for and how the sense of that belief manifests. That is very simple for the inquiry into the self-illusion, everybody has a sense of ‘me’ which they already know.
If you are neurodiverse, it might be different because you might have had to adjust so strongly to your surrounding that maybe you don’t have a clear sense of a self. Look for what feels like the ‘I’ in situations like “I am not fitting in”, “I feel great in hyperfocus”, “I can’t make eye contact”, “I have trouble starting tasks”, “I love to be on my own and relax”.
II. Exploring the “Me”
Then you explore the sense of me in different aspects of your life. The question is: Is there really a “me” that does all this or experiences it? You can also notice the sense of “me” and look whether there is really an entity that holds the reigns.
III. The Holding Pattern
This is the stage when you’ll feel stuck. It became clear that what we call ‘self’ or ‘me’ cannot be found but it still feels like there is one.
There is an uncomfortable cognitive dissonance, the feelings and the findings contradict each other. This cognitive dissonance can last for quite a while, we call it a holding pattern. Though not everybody experiences it, most do. Being in this stage feels rather uneasy. You will be tempted to resolve the cognitive dissonance by concluding that there is no self, since it can’t be found. This is not the final insight though.
If you are in this stage, know that frustration is par for the course. It shows that you are only one step away from the shift. Keep going!
IV. The Shift
When you keep exploring, the answer will reveal itself in a shift.
It will be clear as daylight that there is no “me”. The shift is not any shift, be it an energetic one or seeing “all as one” or “just this”. The shift of seeing through the self-illusion will provide a clear insight into the nature of the self. You might ask yourself why you ever believed in it, since it is so obvious that it never existed.
To give you an idea of how a shift could look like, here is an example how a woman framed her experience. Please know that everybody experiences the shift in a unique way. So far, I never heard two persons report the same experience.
“Let me try to put it into words. As I said, I was in yoga and we were doing an exercise standing up and suddenly my perception changed. The sense of self was gone, the bodies of the others were just like shells and everything somehow belonged together. It felt very light and I felt a great sense of happiness. At that moment, I clearly saw that there was no me. It lasted for a minute or half a minute. The feeling lingered for the whole evening.”
Don’t give up when you’re in the holding pattern and frustrated that nothing moves. Keep looking into all the hiding places of “I am doing or experiencing this”. Perseverance is key. The answer will be revealed.
The other day I read this post by fellow senior guide Christiane Michelberger; I had the thought it might be beneficial for your process:
I Can’t Find a Self - There Is No Self. Right?
Wrong.
Not finding something doesn’t prove its non-existence, it just proves that you can’t find it.
In preparation for my book “How to See Through the Self-Illusion” (to be published May 2024), I guided in this step again, read many dialogues between seekers and guides and also mentored several people who are guiding in this step. Most dialogues are prematurely finished at the point when the seeker doesn’t find a self. The seeker and maybe the guide assume, this must be it, not knowing what else could come.
The fundamental error in this assessment is that not finding a self and concluding it doesn’t exist is a conceptual answer. The real answer is a sensate experience.
Doubt about having seen through the self-illusion will creep in quickly and the whole search starts all over again. The doubt is valid, take it seriously and don’t try to cure it. It will be cured by the right answer.
The right answer will not be given by YOU. The answer is a revelation, most often at a time of relaxation outside of the inquiry. Exploring the self-illusion prepares the ground for the revelation to happen.
To let the answer be revealed, the inquiry has to go through 4 stages.
I. What do I call “Me”?
It starts with finding out which belief you are looking for and how the sense of that belief manifests. That is very simple for the inquiry into the self-illusion, everybody has a sense of ‘me’ which they already know.
If you are neurodiverse, it might be different because you might have had to adjust so strongly to your surrounding that maybe you don’t have a clear sense of a self. Look for what feels like the ‘I’ in situations like “I am not fitting in”, “I feel great in hyperfocus”, “I can’t make eye contact”, “I have trouble starting tasks”, “I love to be on my own and relax”.
II. Exploring the “Me”
Then you explore the sense of me in different aspects of your life. The question is: Is there really a “me” that does all this or experiences it? You can also notice the sense of “me” and look whether there is really an entity that holds the reigns.
III. The Holding Pattern
This is the stage when you’ll feel stuck. It became clear that what we call ‘self’ or ‘me’ cannot be found but it still feels like there is one.
There is an uncomfortable cognitive dissonance, the feelings and the findings contradict each other. This cognitive dissonance can last for quite a while, we call it a holding pattern. Though not everybody experiences it, most do. Being in this stage feels rather uneasy. You will be tempted to resolve the cognitive dissonance by concluding that there is no self, since it can’t be found. This is not the final insight though.
If you are in this stage, know that frustration is par for the course. It shows that you are only one step away from the shift. Keep going!
IV. The Shift
When you keep exploring, the answer will reveal itself in a shift.
It will be clear as daylight that there is no “me”. The shift is not any shift, be it an energetic one or seeing “all as one” or “just this”. The shift of seeing through the self-illusion will provide a clear insight into the nature of the self. You might ask yourself why you ever believed in it, since it is so obvious that it never existed.
To give you an idea of how a shift could look like, here is an example how a woman framed her experience. Please know that everybody experiences the shift in a unique way. So far, I never heard two persons report the same experience.
“Let me try to put it into words. As I said, I was in yoga and we were doing an exercise standing up and suddenly my perception changed. The sense of self was gone, the bodies of the others were just like shells and everything somehow belonged together. It felt very light and I felt a great sense of happiness. At that moment, I clearly saw that there was no me. It lasted for a minute or half a minute. The feeling lingered for the whole evening.”
Don’t give up when you’re in the holding pattern and frustrated that nothing moves. Keep looking into all the hiding places of “I am doing or experiencing this”. Perseverance is key. The answer will be revealed.
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Re: Hello!-JoshO
Dear Elad -
Thank you so much for sending this, and for thinking of me. I was so glad to have met with you the other day, and I appreciate your care across the apparent miles (or kilometers) and the modern miracle of a conversation that has become possible now between two points located at a previously unbridgeable distance.
I did not know that Christiane Michelberger is an LU Guide. I am aware of her and her work -- not deeply so, but I have listened to her and downloaded some writings/guidance materials from her website etc etc. Same with a fellow who I gather she worked with/learned from, Kevin Schanilec. But that's all digression for the moment.
As I described to you, I have been sitting for an hour of meditation every morning these days (as well as for five minutes between every half-hour of job/work); the practice happened this morning as well. Occasionally some words emerge to scribble on my little reporter's notebook here as the sitting happens. Today these words emerged:
"You" cannot do it!
"You" is an illusion!
[and later]
"The New Colossus" is the theme...
[that's the title, BTW, of the poem inscribed at the base of the Statue of Liberty, written by a Sephardic Jewish immigrant to the USA in the 19th century named Emma Lazarus. A central image of the poem is of immigrants as people who are "yearning to breathe free".]
Freedom is God's gift!
Freedom, joy, breathing free - are what the Prodigal Son will receive upon returning
That freedom, that joy IS THE PROMISED LAND
What veils it? Answer that.
You do(es)!
A lot of thoughts have been happening recently about themes related to Passover, October 7th, Freedom, Ukraine, Israel and the USA, and the continuing world-wide struggle for democracy, peace, safety, and freedom for human beings. As I think I mentioned to you, I take a break from my office every weekday afternoon and head over to the Hudson River. I sit on a bench there, look out at the Statue of Liberty across the harbor, and contemplate how she is exactly the embodiment of the vision of the best version of what the USA can be, what it had become enough of by 1876 (the centennial of the founding of the USA, when France gave the US that Statue as a gift in commemoration of the nation's birth) that it became possible for a many many Jewish emigres from the old Austro-Hungarian empire to come in the next chapter of time, as my family did, to build some of the safest, best, luckiest versions of earthly lives that Jewish people have had a chance to do in the last two thousand years.
--
I took a little break from writing you, Elad -- because I really need to get to my jobby-work here. But I do want to let you know that I am very very glad and grateful to have made it to here and now in this process, and that your presence with me is a great help as well as a comfort and a joy. Thank you for sending what you did earlier, and thank you as well, very much, for this continuing conversation.
I told my wife Juliane earlier this morning that I thought it might be a good idea, as well as helpful to her as she travels her own unique path, to engage in some conversation with you too. I will surely tell you more about her when we next speak. Juliane grew up in first East and then West Germany, the child of two people who were small children in the middle of the Second World War, in the middle of a country gripped by, and then reduced to rubble as a result of having been gripped by, fascist thinking. To say that her family traveled an extremely difficult road is a very small way to point out what she and they went through; the fear and trauma she endured are written into her very flesh. Letting go of, or somehow being freed of that trauma, so as to make it possible one day to "breathe free," are (I suspect) central to her particular path, and I don't know how to help her well enough. Perhaps you will be able to help her with her task.
I could go on and on but must get back to work here! For the moment, just - thank you again, Elad. I am so glad to be in this contact and look forward to its continuing.
With very best wishes from
Josh(ua)
Thank you so much for sending this, and for thinking of me. I was so glad to have met with you the other day, and I appreciate your care across the apparent miles (or kilometers) and the modern miracle of a conversation that has become possible now between two points located at a previously unbridgeable distance.
I did not know that Christiane Michelberger is an LU Guide. I am aware of her and her work -- not deeply so, but I have listened to her and downloaded some writings/guidance materials from her website etc etc. Same with a fellow who I gather she worked with/learned from, Kevin Schanilec. But that's all digression for the moment.
As I described to you, I have been sitting for an hour of meditation every morning these days (as well as for five minutes between every half-hour of job/work); the practice happened this morning as well. Occasionally some words emerge to scribble on my little reporter's notebook here as the sitting happens. Today these words emerged:
"You" cannot do it!
"You" is an illusion!
[and later]
"The New Colossus" is the theme...
[that's the title, BTW, of the poem inscribed at the base of the Statue of Liberty, written by a Sephardic Jewish immigrant to the USA in the 19th century named Emma Lazarus. A central image of the poem is of immigrants as people who are "yearning to breathe free".]
Freedom is God's gift!
Freedom, joy, breathing free - are what the Prodigal Son will receive upon returning
That freedom, that joy IS THE PROMISED LAND
What veils it? Answer that.
You do(es)!
A lot of thoughts have been happening recently about themes related to Passover, October 7th, Freedom, Ukraine, Israel and the USA, and the continuing world-wide struggle for democracy, peace, safety, and freedom for human beings. As I think I mentioned to you, I take a break from my office every weekday afternoon and head over to the Hudson River. I sit on a bench there, look out at the Statue of Liberty across the harbor, and contemplate how she is exactly the embodiment of the vision of the best version of what the USA can be, what it had become enough of by 1876 (the centennial of the founding of the USA, when France gave the US that Statue as a gift in commemoration of the nation's birth) that it became possible for a many many Jewish emigres from the old Austro-Hungarian empire to come in the next chapter of time, as my family did, to build some of the safest, best, luckiest versions of earthly lives that Jewish people have had a chance to do in the last two thousand years.
--
I took a little break from writing you, Elad -- because I really need to get to my jobby-work here. But I do want to let you know that I am very very glad and grateful to have made it to here and now in this process, and that your presence with me is a great help as well as a comfort and a joy. Thank you for sending what you did earlier, and thank you as well, very much, for this continuing conversation.
I told my wife Juliane earlier this morning that I thought it might be a good idea, as well as helpful to her as she travels her own unique path, to engage in some conversation with you too. I will surely tell you more about her when we next speak. Juliane grew up in first East and then West Germany, the child of two people who were small children in the middle of the Second World War, in the middle of a country gripped by, and then reduced to rubble as a result of having been gripped by, fascist thinking. To say that her family traveled an extremely difficult road is a very small way to point out what she and they went through; the fear and trauma she endured are written into her very flesh. Letting go of, or somehow being freed of that trauma, so as to make it possible one day to "breathe free," are (I suspect) central to her particular path, and I don't know how to help her well enough. Perhaps you will be able to help her with her task.
I could go on and on but must get back to work here! For the moment, just - thank you again, Elad. I am so glad to be in this contact and look forward to its continuing.
With very best wishes from
Josh(ua)
Re: Hello!-JoshO
Lovely to read this Joshua. Your are welcome to make contact with regards to your wife should she wish to.
Now, when the words emerge
"You cannot do this"
"You is an illusion"
What happens?
What happens when you intone now:
"There is no self and no control"
Now, when the words emerge
"You cannot do this"
"You is an illusion"
What happens?
What happens when you intone now:
"There is no self and no control"
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Re: Hello!-JoshO
How are things? :)
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Re: Hello!-JoshO
Greetings Elad - Thank you so much for touching base. First, I will share a reading from Father Richard Rohr that came to me today, and then a bit of writing from me to you afterward.
HOMECOMING
Love Is Home
Friday, May 10, 2024
Felicia Murrell acknowledges that our first homes are not always safe:
In the 1978 movie The Wiz, the iconic Diana Ross sings, “When I think of home, I think of a place where there’s love overflowing.” [1]
What rises in your body when you think of home? Is home synonymous with love and affection? Is home a place you long to return to?
For some, home is terror, a place to flee with no desire to return or revisit. This is important to name and acknowledge because too many are aimlessly wandering, feeling insignificant—unseen, unknown.
When home is not a place of comfort, and there is no sense of knowing or nurture, it leaves the body in flight-or-fight mode. We see this in Dorothy’s companions, the scarecrow and the cowardly lion. One runs to isolation, invisibility, and separation, choosing to hide. The other blusters to cover a lack of courage … with a body that remains on full alert, suspicious and defensive. Whether self-protecting or hiding, one thing is true: Neither posture offers the soul any type of rest. Neither is home.
Often, when we think of home, we think only of an external place, out there, a fixed place—the place where we live and grow, create fond memories, establish familial bonds; the place we leave when we come of age and where we return when things are hard.
The evolution of Dorothy’s journey on the yellow brick road expands home beyond the narrow confines of a fixed place to a vast inward sea. “I’ve learned,” she says, “that we must look inside our hearts to find a world full of love … like home.” [2]
For Murrell, home offers unconditional love.
Love is home.
Home is both an external dwelling and an internal abode. Home is the place where we belong, our place of acceptance and welcome. There, in this shame and judgment-free embryonic cocoon of love, we practice unconditional acceptance; we learn to relate to ourselves and the world around us.
And home is a soft place for the body to land, a safe place for the soul to fully disrobe. Home is the place where our failures don’t kill, our sins can’t crush, and even when we are at our worst, we’re safe. Home is a place where we are free to take our deepest, fullest, least encumbered breath.
At home, there’s no need to guess whether we’re in or out, welcomed or not. Home always prepares a place with us in mind.
How are you preparing a home of unconditional acceptance for yourself? How do you welcome your body, make room for your mind? In what ways are you engaging your soul with intentionality? How are you reclaiming the safety of home for yourself?
“Home,” says Glinda the Good, “is a place we all must find, child. It’s not just a place where you eat or sleep. Home is knowing. Knowing your mind, knowing your heart, knowing your courage. If we know ourselves, we’re always home, anywhere.” [3]
--
Greetings Elad!
I am so glad to hear from you! Thank you so much for thinking of me and for checking in -- it warmed me, truly, to receive your greeting.
To answer your question directly: it seems to me that things are quite well indeed. I am sitting here at my office in the aftermath of an hour's really wonderful morning meditation practice, which was followed by reading the message about "Home" that began this note. It came to me via email this morning from my favorite Franciscan friar, of whom I believe I've spoken to you: Father Richard Rohr.
It feels like growth is happening.
It feels like messages are coming in that are helping.
A process of growth that that I do not understand and may not be responsible for... at least not that little individuated illusory "self" that I have taken myself for, taken myself to be, for almost my entire conscious, waking lifetime on Earth.
I am very much in the midst of what feels like good work, and at the same time it's an interesting problem to try to talk about it... because the talking exists on the level which I am being freed of, you might say. It's not that I don't ever want to talk again, of course not -- it's that the "Home" that is referred to in this passage above was tasted this morning, and was tasted by means of this practice, and I have to come back out here in order to speak of it.
And I am thrilled to do so, and at the same time I yearn just to practice... I want more.
It's an interesting situation. I am in the midst of a lot of different work, on multiple levels. I don't want to talk here and now (I'm at my workplace) about a wonderful livelihood possibility that has entered my life – we will see how it all unfolds. I don't know if I will get the gig I'm trying to land, but I am very hopeful to do so, to improve my external working situation so as to help my wife feel better, and my children to feel better, and better taken care of.
Meanwhile, on the level on which this work and growth are unfolding, things feel very, very positive indeed, exciting, hopeful, filled with growing joy and excitement at the possibility of what it is that is beginning more reliably to reveal itself in this life. An experience that I glimpsed decades ago, that gave me the feeling that it might be possible, decades ago, access to an experience of home like that which is referred to in this writing. Which I pursued and pursued and pursued and pursued without knowing how to gain reliable access to it, to what turns out to be myself, is germinating. Is breaking free from the seed. It appears to be flowering, and it's a very interesting, sometimes bewildering, sometimes overjoyed experience.
And there's oscillation to it, back and forth, home and "world."
I practice -- it's been magnificent to have this morning practice. I meditate for a full hour every morning these days and have for a while, and I can't tell you what a good thing it is... and then I work for chunks of 25 minutes at a time at my office desk, and after those 25 minutes, I take five minutes and meditate some more and I'm granted access to my real breath again, and to my real self again in doing so and the whole day -- when things, when I... I never leave, but the idea of that way of practicing is essentially to keep in contact, in some contact, with that depth that has been reached in the morning practice. And then do my duty and do my work during the day and... and keep coming back. Go to the world, and come home, and go to the world, and come home.
And it turns out that that going home, I suspect strongly ... home is never elsewhere. But it's... I mean... I'm in a process. It appears there's a process to this, and it's such an interesting, bewildering, paradoxical one, and a wonderful one, and it is ongoing right now.
And so -- that is really the update. I would love to see you and speak with you about all this again sometime soon. I would love somehow to be able to communicate what this is better to the people I love most -- and to all people. It strikes me very strongly with this is the [central] project... of a human life on earth. And then... and so I'm thrilled and I'm, and I'm all for it and I'm just... very eager... It's amazing to me, what's going on.
And of course, there's, you know -- I oscillate between having thoughts, and listening to them, and practicing. And being freed of any thought... and being home. And then coming back to thought, and thinking about stuff, and looking at everything through the lens of thought, and, you know, wanting the individual -- I identify with that guy, with that body, with that mind, with that history, with that story, with that effort towards this place from which I now speak to you about recognizing, or beginning to recognize, that he was the mustard seed, is the mustard seed, is not the self, is not myself.
"I am Yourself," said the Divine. "I am Yourself."
And the guy... is a disguise... whom I nonetheless treasure.
That is the update for this morning, my dear Elad.
I wish you every good thing and thank you for the work we have done and continue to do. I'm so interested to have learned the wonderful fact that you appear to be involved in conversation/partnership/work with my dear Patti Levin! I met Patti first at a Rupert Spira retreat in October 2017 at the Garrison Institute in New York State, up the Hudson river from New York City. Patti has been a dear friend and an important figure in this story, in this particular chapter of this life story... how interesing and wonderful that you and she have connected! I was so interested to see that -- I look forward to speaking with you and hearing more.
And so for now, I just wish you a beautiful day. Shabbat shalom.
All good things to you, dear Elad, on this day and every day forward.
Talk to you soon.
with love from
Josh(ua)
HOMECOMING
Love Is Home
Friday, May 10, 2024
Felicia Murrell acknowledges that our first homes are not always safe:
In the 1978 movie The Wiz, the iconic Diana Ross sings, “When I think of home, I think of a place where there’s love overflowing.” [1]
What rises in your body when you think of home? Is home synonymous with love and affection? Is home a place you long to return to?
For some, home is terror, a place to flee with no desire to return or revisit. This is important to name and acknowledge because too many are aimlessly wandering, feeling insignificant—unseen, unknown.
When home is not a place of comfort, and there is no sense of knowing or nurture, it leaves the body in flight-or-fight mode. We see this in Dorothy’s companions, the scarecrow and the cowardly lion. One runs to isolation, invisibility, and separation, choosing to hide. The other blusters to cover a lack of courage … with a body that remains on full alert, suspicious and defensive. Whether self-protecting or hiding, one thing is true: Neither posture offers the soul any type of rest. Neither is home.
Often, when we think of home, we think only of an external place, out there, a fixed place—the place where we live and grow, create fond memories, establish familial bonds; the place we leave when we come of age and where we return when things are hard.
The evolution of Dorothy’s journey on the yellow brick road expands home beyond the narrow confines of a fixed place to a vast inward sea. “I’ve learned,” she says, “that we must look inside our hearts to find a world full of love … like home.” [2]
For Murrell, home offers unconditional love.
Love is home.
Home is both an external dwelling and an internal abode. Home is the place where we belong, our place of acceptance and welcome. There, in this shame and judgment-free embryonic cocoon of love, we practice unconditional acceptance; we learn to relate to ourselves and the world around us.
And home is a soft place for the body to land, a safe place for the soul to fully disrobe. Home is the place where our failures don’t kill, our sins can’t crush, and even when we are at our worst, we’re safe. Home is a place where we are free to take our deepest, fullest, least encumbered breath.
At home, there’s no need to guess whether we’re in or out, welcomed or not. Home always prepares a place with us in mind.
How are you preparing a home of unconditional acceptance for yourself? How do you welcome your body, make room for your mind? In what ways are you engaging your soul with intentionality? How are you reclaiming the safety of home for yourself?
“Home,” says Glinda the Good, “is a place we all must find, child. It’s not just a place where you eat or sleep. Home is knowing. Knowing your mind, knowing your heart, knowing your courage. If we know ourselves, we’re always home, anywhere.” [3]
--
Greetings Elad!
I am so glad to hear from you! Thank you so much for thinking of me and for checking in -- it warmed me, truly, to receive your greeting.
To answer your question directly: it seems to me that things are quite well indeed. I am sitting here at my office in the aftermath of an hour's really wonderful morning meditation practice, which was followed by reading the message about "Home" that began this note. It came to me via email this morning from my favorite Franciscan friar, of whom I believe I've spoken to you: Father Richard Rohr.
It feels like growth is happening.
It feels like messages are coming in that are helping.
A process of growth that that I do not understand and may not be responsible for... at least not that little individuated illusory "self" that I have taken myself for, taken myself to be, for almost my entire conscious, waking lifetime on Earth.
I am very much in the midst of what feels like good work, and at the same time it's an interesting problem to try to talk about it... because the talking exists on the level which I am being freed of, you might say. It's not that I don't ever want to talk again, of course not -- it's that the "Home" that is referred to in this passage above was tasted this morning, and was tasted by means of this practice, and I have to come back out here in order to speak of it.
And I am thrilled to do so, and at the same time I yearn just to practice... I want more.
It's an interesting situation. I am in the midst of a lot of different work, on multiple levels. I don't want to talk here and now (I'm at my workplace) about a wonderful livelihood possibility that has entered my life – we will see how it all unfolds. I don't know if I will get the gig I'm trying to land, but I am very hopeful to do so, to improve my external working situation so as to help my wife feel better, and my children to feel better, and better taken care of.
Meanwhile, on the level on which this work and growth are unfolding, things feel very, very positive indeed, exciting, hopeful, filled with growing joy and excitement at the possibility of what it is that is beginning more reliably to reveal itself in this life. An experience that I glimpsed decades ago, that gave me the feeling that it might be possible, decades ago, access to an experience of home like that which is referred to in this writing. Which I pursued and pursued and pursued and pursued without knowing how to gain reliable access to it, to what turns out to be myself, is germinating. Is breaking free from the seed. It appears to be flowering, and it's a very interesting, sometimes bewildering, sometimes overjoyed experience.
And there's oscillation to it, back and forth, home and "world."
I practice -- it's been magnificent to have this morning practice. I meditate for a full hour every morning these days and have for a while, and I can't tell you what a good thing it is... and then I work for chunks of 25 minutes at a time at my office desk, and after those 25 minutes, I take five minutes and meditate some more and I'm granted access to my real breath again, and to my real self again in doing so and the whole day -- when things, when I... I never leave, but the idea of that way of practicing is essentially to keep in contact, in some contact, with that depth that has been reached in the morning practice. And then do my duty and do my work during the day and... and keep coming back. Go to the world, and come home, and go to the world, and come home.
And it turns out that that going home, I suspect strongly ... home is never elsewhere. But it's... I mean... I'm in a process. It appears there's a process to this, and it's such an interesting, bewildering, paradoxical one, and a wonderful one, and it is ongoing right now.
And so -- that is really the update. I would love to see you and speak with you about all this again sometime soon. I would love somehow to be able to communicate what this is better to the people I love most -- and to all people. It strikes me very strongly with this is the [central] project... of a human life on earth. And then... and so I'm thrilled and I'm, and I'm all for it and I'm just... very eager... It's amazing to me, what's going on.
And of course, there's, you know -- I oscillate between having thoughts, and listening to them, and practicing. And being freed of any thought... and being home. And then coming back to thought, and thinking about stuff, and looking at everything through the lens of thought, and, you know, wanting the individual -- I identify with that guy, with that body, with that mind, with that history, with that story, with that effort towards this place from which I now speak to you about recognizing, or beginning to recognize, that he was the mustard seed, is the mustard seed, is not the self, is not myself.
"I am Yourself," said the Divine. "I am Yourself."
And the guy... is a disguise... whom I nonetheless treasure.
That is the update for this morning, my dear Elad.
I wish you every good thing and thank you for the work we have done and continue to do. I'm so interested to have learned the wonderful fact that you appear to be involved in conversation/partnership/work with my dear Patti Levin! I met Patti first at a Rupert Spira retreat in October 2017 at the Garrison Institute in New York State, up the Hudson river from New York City. Patti has been a dear friend and an important figure in this story, in this particular chapter of this life story... how interesing and wonderful that you and she have connected! I was so interested to see that -- I look forward to speaking with you and hearing more.
And so for now, I just wish you a beautiful day. Shabbat shalom.
All good things to you, dear Elad, on this day and every day forward.
Talk to you soon.
with love from
Josh(ua)
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