ISO The Guide which Resonates

[72457245]

Hi Rowena,

Sorry for the delay and thanks for reminding me!

The words "blue monkey" are heard......
If you heard the words "think of a blue monkey" then were YOU actually DOING something to make the thought or visual image appear or did it just arise?

I think in this case it seems like it would just arise. But if you said "think of blue monkeys for the next 20 minutes and if you get distracted, just keep coming back to blue monkeys...", it would seem a lot more like "I" was refocus attention to keep visualizing blue monkeys... in that way it sort of seems like I am doing it.

I love the unpacking you did on "intention". You really looked into this carefully,
Are you ok with being "Not sure"!
How does it feel to be "Not sure" after trying to unpack the idea of intention?

Yes being not sure is just fine, kind of a relief actually.

PALM FLIPPING

- How is the movement controlled?
- Does a thought control it?
- Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
- How is the decision made to turn the hand over?

Not sure how the movement is controlled. It just happens! A thought doesn't control it and no controller can be located. Regarding the decision, I'm not sure how it is made. Sometimes it seems like there is a decision like "I'm going to turn it over NOW" but other times, it just does it's own thing.

Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.
- Who or what chose which hand - the left or right hand?

Nothing can be found as the chooser.

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

No.

Does thought even initiate anything or is that just another thought story?

HMMM! Another thought story. But also it seems like it could be another thought story to say "thought never initiates anything".

And muscles? They just move, right?

They do. Yes.

Let go of that last bit of thought story & see what is found.
How does it FEEL to see this?

Actions are just happening without a controller/decider. There is still lingering objection that something is keeping track of time that is deciding to get up out of the chair to go to things etc... like a sense of a background self... but I think that is maybe just background thoughts coming and going. There is not necessarily a feeling with seeing this for some reason, maybe I am not fully seeing it still.

[Noro]

Hi Colin, Glad you're back!

it would seem a lot more like "I" was refocus attention to keep visualizing blue monkeys... in that way it sort of seems like I am doing it.

I think that you are pretty clear that there is no "I" to be found (see all your answers below).
Could you agree that refocusing of attention was simply happening, and that there is no need of an "I" to do the focusing?

How does it feel to be "Not sure" after trying to unpack the idea of intention?

Yes being not sure is just fine, kind of a relief actually.

YES :)

There is still lingering objection that something is keeping track of time that is deciding to get up out of the chair to go to things etc... like a sense of a background self... but I think that is maybe just background thoughts coming and going. There is not necessarily a feeling with seeing this for some reason, maybe I am not fully seeing it still.

I think you are seeing this very well. It is natural that there is some lingering objection and background thoughts coming and going. All just happening!

What I would suggest is for you to repeat the exercise and become curious about any lingering objection/ (resistance?).. take a look and see what sensations are arising in the body.
Please report back with your findings.


DEEPER BODY INVESTIGATION

Here is an even deeper investigation of the body. Please follow each step, don't leave out any. Take your time.
Don't move on to the next step until the previous one is clearly seen.

Repeat the exercise several times.

Stand in front of a bigger mirror.

(1) First, close the eyes and feel the sensations labelled ‘body’.

(2) Then open the eyes and look into the mirror while still paying attention to the sensations.
Is there any connection between the felt sensations and the image in the mirror? Or just thoughts (and/or mental images) suggest that there is?

(3) While still paying attention to the sensations move one hand and observe the movement from the mirror.
Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and image of movement in the mirror?

(4) Now do the same movement with the hand, but this time look at the hand directly, not from the mirror.
Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and the image ‘of movement’? Or only thoughts suggest it?

(5) Now, pay attention only to the image in the mirror.
Does the image by itself suggest in any way that is ‘you’ or ‘your body’?
Does the image itself suggest in any way that it is a ‘body’ at all? Or are there only colours and shapes?

(6) Where the mirror ends, some parts of the body (probably legs) cannot be seen.
Just by the image in the mirror, is there any ‘knowledge’ that there must be legs, or only thoughts and mental images suggest so?

(7) Now turn away from the mirror and look forward (don’t look directly to any body parts).
Is there a ‘body’ anywhere when all thoughts and images are ignored, or are there only sensations?

(8) Start to walk slowly.
Is there a ‘body walking’, or are there only sensations?
Is there actual experience of ‘walking’ at all?
Or just THOUGHTS ABOUT ‘walking’?

Can such a thing as ‘body’ be found OR just THOUGHTS ABOUT a ‘body’?

Can such a thing as ‘walking’ be found?

(9) Are the sensations localized in space, like ‘going through the room’;
OR is there only an image that is labelled ‘room’ and appearing sensations without any location?


With love,

Rowena

[72457245]

Dear Rowena, I hope this finds you well. Sorry for the delays. On vacation with family here and it's a little more hectic than usual in terms of getting quiet time for these investigations. I'll be quicker with replies into next week starting Wednesday.

Could you agree that refocusing of attention was simply happening, and that there is no need of an "I" to do the focusing?

Yes.

What I would suggest is for you to repeat the exercise and become curious about any lingering objection/ (resistance?).. take a look and see what sensations are arising in the body.
Please report back with your findings.

Okay, the exercise was to just try and see where the strongest lingering "I" resides or is felt?... Is that right?

Is there any connection between the felt sensations and the image in the mirror? Or just thoughts (and/or mental images) suggest that there is?

Didn't feel like much connection and if so, only thoughts! Though I also wanted to mention that I can almost detect a sort of "bias" where I know what the answer should be to see through the self... so I am almost looking for that to be the case. I am trying to be as unbiased as I can be.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and image of movement in the mirror?

No. Only if I try to connect them.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and the image ‘of movement’? Or only thoughts suggest it?

No connection... only if I try I can connect the two via thought.

Does the image by itself suggest in any way that is ‘you’ or ‘your body’?
Does the image itself suggest in any way that it is a ‘body’ at all? Or are there only colours and shapes?

No. Only colours and shapes. Even colors and shapes seem to be in thought territory by nature of language. Only thought connects the image to the label 'body'.

Just by the image in the mirror, is there any ‘knowledge’ that there must be legs, or only thoughts and mental images suggest so?

Thoughts suggesting.

Is there a ‘body’ anywhere when all thoughts and images are ignored, or are there only sensations?

Sensations only.

Is there a ‘body walking’, or are there only sensations?
Is there actual experience of ‘walking’ at all?

Sensations! Thoughts about walking only.

Can such a thing as ‘body’ be found OR just THOUGHTS ABOUT a ‘body’?

Can such a thing as ‘walking’ be found?

(9) Are the sensations localized in space, like ‘going through the room’;
OR is there only an image that is labelled ‘room’ and appearing sensations without any location?

Thoughts about a body. Only thoughts about walking can be found.

Yes, just the image of the room plus sensations.

[Noro]

Hi Colin,

I hope you are having a lovely vacation.

Re. the Palm Flipping exercise:

What I would suggest is for you to repeat the exercise and become curious about any lingering objection/ (resistance?).. take a look and see what sensations are arising in the body.
Please report back with your findings.

Okay, the exercise was to just try and see where the strongest lingering "I" resides or is felt?... Is that right?

Yes, exactly. This is a good exercise to repeat, and it is quite possible that at times there is a total flow and it can be clearly seen that there is no "I" 'doing' or 'flipping', just flipping happening, and then at other times thoughts and sensations of contraction might arise labelled as objection or resistance. ALWAYS get curious then because you will often find some body sensation arising at the same time as a thought. (Remember the Truth/Lie exercise).


Re: Mirror exercise:

Didn't feel like much connection and if so, only thoughts! Though I also wanted to mention that I can almost detect a sort of "bias" where I know what the answer should be to see through the self... so I am almost looking for that to be the case. I am trying to be as unbiased as I can be.

Well spotted; subtle thoughts trying to muscle in... the 'mind' is so clever!! You can acknowledge the diversion of thought as part of DE and then go back to the Looking/Sensing.


Here is a fun exercise that you can do anywhere.

HAND ON TABLE
Please close your eyes for this exercise, just notice any ‘mental’ images or thoughts that appear and put them aside.

Place a hand on a desk or table (flat surface) - Close your eyes.

Now 'go to' the feeling/sensation which we would normally refer to as 'hand on desk' and answer from what you can FIND.

1) How many things do you find? Are there two things (hand and desk) or is there one thing – sensation?

2) Can a ‘feeler’ be found in 'what is being felt'?

3) Do you notice 'one thing feeling another thing'? Or is there just 'a sensation'?

4) Do you find an 'I', a body, a hand 'feeling' . . . or is there just 'a sensation'?

What do you find?

Can an INHERENT FEELER be found?
Would anything that is suggested as the feeler, be anything other than a concept/idea/thought?

This exercise can also be done with feet on the floor, or buttocks sitting on a chair alternating with the hand on the table.


With love,
Rowena

[72457245]

Yes, exactly. This is a good exercise to repeat, and it is quite possible that at times there is a total flow and it can be clearly seen that there is no "I" 'doing' or 'flipping', just flipping happening, and then at other times thoughts and sensations of contraction might arise labelled as objection or resistance. ALWAYS get curious then because you will often find some body sensation arising at the same time as a thought. (Remember the Truth/Lie exercise).

When I do the palm flipping it seems like it's just happening. But when I then really "look" for a flipper, the attention seems to goto the chest area and sensation becomes a bit stronger there. I don't know if that is relevant somehow.

How many things do you find? Are there two things (hand and desk) or is there one thing – sensation?
2) Can a ‘feeler’ be found in 'what is being felt'?
3) Do you notice 'one thing feeling another thing'? Or is there just 'a sensation'?
4) Do you find an 'I', a body, a hand 'feeling' . . . or is there just 'a sensation'?
What do you find?
Can an INHERENT FEELER be found?
Would anything that is suggested as the feeler, be anything other than a concept/idea/thought?

1) Just sensation
2) Just sensation
3) Just sensation! When I move it to a different surface, it's a different sensation, but still just sensation.
4) When I look, I cannot find one. Though sensation focus seemed to shift "location" from the hand area to the chest area.

This exercise can also be done with feet on the floor, or buttocks sitting on a chair alternating with the hand on the table.

Yes I feel this one pretty easily and it is fun!

Best, C

With love,
Rowena

[Noro]

Good Morning Colin,

When I do the palm flipping it seems like it's just happening. But when I then really "look" for a flipper, the attention seems to goto the chest area and sensation becomes a bit stronger there. I don't know if that is relevant somehow.

"When I really "look" ..... and then sensations arise. Again, well noticed.
Some sort of extra efforting was going on to find a flipper and sensations arose and were noticed.
Isn't it amazing how the body seems to respond through sensations?
There is no relevance except the noticing of this.
Also, I would refer back to that exercise where you add the "I am" to sitting, versus 'simply sitting', and notice sensations arising when you do this.

I'm glad you liked the Hand on Table exercise and variations. You are seeing clearly.

Here is another lovely one:

NATURE EXERCISE

Go out into nature and spend some time watching the movement of the whole. See how clouds move, trees swing, leaves wiggle, grass moves, insects, birds - all move all the time.

Then move focus to sensations and see how they too are in constant motion, thoughts come and go, sounds, colours, sensations come and go.

Notice that everything is part of one movement.

Now close your eyes and see if there is a line or boundary between you and out there, between you and life itself.

If yes, where is that line or boundary?

Is there an inside and an outside of Life?

Is there something which is not included in the movement of the whole?

Is there a witness that is watching life happening from a distance?

Is witnessing part of the one movement, too?

Is there anything which is not just happening?

Go out, come back and tell me what you found.


Have a great day!

Rowena

[Noro]

Hi Colin,

Just checking in, it's been a few days now and it would be a pity to let the momentum drop.

How are you feeling about the inquiry?

Love,
Rowena

[72457245]

Let me stay more on top of this. We just got back from travel and now my dad here so it's a little hard to find time to quietly observe. But I will keep the momentum up!

Now close your eyes and see if there is a line or boundary between you and out there, between you and life itself.

If yes, where is that line or boundary?

No boundary.

Is there an inside and an outside of Life?

No.

Is there something which is not included in the movement of the whole?

No

Is there a witness that is watching life happening from a distance?

Logically no, but sometimes it still feels like this.

Is witnessing part of the one movement, too?

Yes!

Is there anything which is not just happening?

No!


Rowena Something I have noticed with the process is that I answer the questions and yes, it seems like they are the "clear seeing" answers, but there is not really an integration of them. Like it is all forgotten the next day or it is not a deep realization. Or sometimes maybe I see these things but don't make that connection to "Since there is no boundary, witnessing is part of the one movement and everything is just happening, there is no separation to be found here!". I think after each inquiry, I will try to create a summary sentence or perhaps you can also point me to that? "By use of these questions, you looked for separation in nature and you could not find any." or maybe pre-contextualize it a bit "By use of this nature exercise, you will explore boundaries which tend to solidify a sense of separation when they seem real." etc. Do you think this is a good idea? Or just keep going with questions no thinking too hard and eventually it will seep in?

[Noro]

Hi Colin,

Thanks for the update, let's take a look at what 'thinking' has produced!

Something I have noticed with the process is that I answer the questions and yes, it seems like they are the "clear seeing" answers, but there is not really an integration of them. Like it is all forgotten the next day or it is not a deep realization.

OK, lets go back to basics, LU is here to help you see through the illusion of a separate self;
The exercises point towards what is ACTUAL experience and away from CONCEPTUAL ideas about experience.

So there are EXPECTATIONS (futuristic thoughts) happening of something imagined ("integration") happening and thoughts saying that there has not been "a deep realization" (also a concept) and so DOUBT thinking is also happening.
Can you see what is going on?

Or sometimes maybe I see these things but don't make that connection to "Since there is no boundary, witnessing is part of the one movement and everything is just happening, there is no separation to be found here!".

What we see, hear or sense is different each and every time. We go for a walk in nature and all of a sudden there is no boundary between 'here and there' , there is "only seeing happening". The self-referencing 'mind' will immediately take ownership of that experience and then create EXPECTATIONS of it always being like that, but it doesn't work like that.

"Is there something called Life that needs you to do something specific for it to be ok?"
Todd Lent Damore

My suggestion is that you become more and more alert and curious about your thoughts and their content. Do a scan for an "I" or for a 'thinker'. Make a note of "thinking happening" and then if DOUBT thoughts arise then look at what is happening in the body. This is about a WHOLE BODY EXPERIENCE!

LooK Here: What do you FEEL when you speak out each sentence?

I think after each inquiry, I will try to create a summary sentence or perhaps you can also point me to that? "

vs.

Or just keep going with questions no thinking too hard and eventually it will seep in?

Which option FEELS more true, more expansive (Remember the Truth/Lie exercise?)

"Is there a witness that is watching life happening from a distance?

Logically no, but sometimes it still feels like this.

OK, we don't want logic. Sometimes it still feels like there is a witness is OK, that's just what's happening.

Can you FIND a witness??


SOUND FIELD

Put on some music. Use earphones if you have them.
Allow yourself to become absorbed in the sounds.
See if you can feel the body resonating with the sounds.
Ask the following questions:
Where does it feel the sound is?
Where does it feel "I" am?

Now ask "Who is hearing?"

What happens to the quality of hearing when you ask this question?
Does attention shift from hearing to the thought space?
Notice any sensations that arise in the body with this question.
Be fully with the sensations in the body, let go of any thoughts
Allow yourself once again to become absorbed in the sounds.

Can an INHERENT HEARER be found?
Could anything that is suggested as the hearer, be anything other than a concept/idea/thought?


VISUAL FIELD

Sit quietly and look at the visual field.
Find an object to focus on.
ask the question:

Where does it feel that is?
Where does it feel that I am?


PS You can do the Hearing/Visual Field exercises at any time when you are going about daily tasks in a calm, methodical way.


With love
Rowena

[72457245]

So there are EXPECTATIONS (futuristic thoughts) happening of something imagined ("integration") happening and thoughts saying that there has not been "a deep realization" (also a concept) and so DOUBT thinking is also happening.
Can you see what is going on?

Yes, yes this is helpful. Doubt thoughts. Even at that same time that I realize this a thought occurs that I should practice each exercise more, so as to "remember" what has been seen. I think that is another doubt thought.

What we see, hear or sense is different each and every time. We go for a walk in nature and all of a sudden there is no boundary between 'here and there' , there is "only seeing happening". The self-referencing 'mind' will immediately take ownership of that experience and then create EXPECTATIONS of it always being like that, but it doesn't work like that.

"Is there something called Life that needs you to do something specific for it to be ok?"
Todd Lent Damore

My suggestion is that you become more and more alert and curious about your thoughts and their content. Do a scan for an "I" or for a 'thinker'. Make a note of "thinking happening" and then if DOUBT thoughts arise then look at what is happening in the body. This is about a WHOLE BODY EXPERIENCE!

Very helpful, thank you, I will.

I think after each inquiry, I will try to create a summary sentence or perhaps you can also point me to that? "
vs.
Or just keep going with questions no thinking too hard and eventually it will seep in?

Neither of them feel great/true honestly. Because I think both are the expectation thought, grasping, desperation. But if I have to choose, it is the second one. Thank you.

OK, we don't want logic. Sometimes it still feels like there is a witness is OK, that's just what's happening.

Can you FIND a witness??

Good question! I cannot see a witness with my vision pointing out, and whatever I can see must also be witnessed by something, so it cannot be the witness. I cannot hear a witness. I cannot touch a witness because what I can touch is also witnessed. I cannot sense a witness, because whatever I sense is just blank sensation, and to label it "witness" is just a thought, maybe that's true with the other senses too. I cannot smell or taste a witness.

Where does it feel the sound is?

Hard to say. Sometimes in different parts of the body. Other times just taking up the whole sound field, without location/everywhere.

Where does it feel "I" am?

Hard to locate/everywhere.

Now ask "Who is hearing?"

What happens to the quality of hearing when you ask this question?
Does attention shift from hearing to the thought space?

Bit of chest contraction. Slight nausea. Yes shift to the thought space.

Can an INHERENT HEARER be found?
Could anything that is suggested as the hearer, be anything other than a concept/idea/thought?

I cannot see one. I cannot hear one. I cannot taste, smell or touch one. It must be a concept!

Sit quietly and look at the visual field.
Find an object to focus on.
ask the question:

Where does it feel that is?
Where does it feel that I am?

At first it feels like the screen is there and I am here. But I see how that is only possible with thought. If I pose the question and then forget about thinking about it in a way, get out of the thought space, there is not a feeling of I and the screen. Only when thought comes in can the division also appear! And it does...

I'll keep going with this through the day as you suggest.

[Noro]

Hi Colin,

Great seeing (for want of a better word!)

Yes, yes this is helpful. Doubt thoughts. Even at that same time that I realize this a thought occurs that I should practice each exercise more, so as to "remember" what has been seen. I think that is another doubt thought.

Yes, Colin you are seeing clearly.....and,
Does there need to be an "I" to practice or not, or to remember or not what has been seen?
Practicing might happen and remembering might happen, or it might not....... and then an imaginary "I" might then claim ownership of that. :)

Neither of them feel great/true honestly. Because I think both are the expectation thought, grasping, desperation. But if I have to choose, it is the second one. Thank you.

Well spotted. And yes, both have expectations attached.

At first it feels like the screen is there and I am here. But I see how that is only possible with thought. If I pose the question and then forget about thinking about it in a way, get out of the thought space, there is not a feeling of I and the screen. Only when thought comes in can the division also appear! And it does...

Beautiful, a big YES to that Colin,

How does it feel to see this?


Keep playing with the sense fields!

With love,
Rowena

[72457245]

Beautiful, a big YES to that Colin,

How does it feel to see this?

It seemed amazing at the time but is less so now. I will keep experimenting with the sense fields. Thank you Rowena, hope you had a wonderful weekend.

[Noro]

Hi Colin,

It seemed amazing at the time but is less so now.

I found it to be like that also. A sudden insight and a sense of lightness and freedom and then a fading. But you are changed by the realization; the "circuitry" is quick to integrate, but the impact of the recognition continues!

I will let you do your experimenting over the next few days.

Love,
Rowena

[72457245]

Hi Rowena,

I hope you've been well there.

I continued on with some sense gates experiments, looking for a hearer and see'er in which none could be located. Sometimes I wonder if the gateless gate has already been crossed or not. Doubt! Thought! By no one. Hmmm.. Is there any question I can ask to check the completeness of this or perhaps it's just getting started, I'm not sure.

Best, C

[Noro]

Hi Colin,

Great to get your recent post.

I continued on with some sense gates experiments, looking for a hearer and see'er in which none could be located. Sometimes I wonder if the gateless gate has already been crossed or not. Doubt! Thought! By no one. Hmmm.. Is there any question I can ask to check the completeness of this or perhaps it's just getting started, I'm not sure.

Doubt! Thought! By no one! YES :)

I do think you are now ready for the final questions, and I am happy that you were thinking the same thing!
Once you have sent the answers back I will forward them on to other guides for confirmation and/or any questions they might have.

I will also send you some information regarding ongoing support and the possibility to join various zoom meetings to meet and talk with others who are on this path.

Final questions to follow in next post.

Love,

Rowena