I am struggling with the understanding of letting go of self

[SkwerlGirl]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
At this time my understanding is that “self” is an illusion, and only made from stories about self.

What are you looking for at LU?
I am looking for guidance and understanding of letting go of “self”, a currently confusing idea. I feel communicating with guides will be helpful for me to better discuss and understand the concepts of “I”, “me”, “self”.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I expect to be able to vulnerably ask questions about topics of “I”, “me”, “self” and have clear pointing and direction from honest compassionate answers. I expect my confusion to be welcomed and redirected to questions and perhaps exercises to deepen my understanding on this journey.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
My experience is from reading books, viewing select videos and sitting with questions - but still feeling mired in confusion.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 10

[Lubo]

Hi dear SkwerlGirl,
Welcome to the forum.

My name is Lubo and can guide you, if you are OK?

I read your intro and I can help you here:

I am looking for guidance and understanding of letting go of “self”

It will be fast if you find that understanding create now the persona.
Don't believe me, check what understanding says about that?
Notice also what appears as understanding?
check thoughts ;)

Much love,
Lubo

[SkwerlGirl]

Thank you Lubo, I welcome your guidance. I am grateful for your time.

If I am reading your reply correctly, my thoughts of letting go of self is the persona? This is the persona that wants to know and have the answers to this suffering.

I notice that I feel like I am trying to make an understanding happen, not just come to knowing it. I am struggling with the spinning in my head of thoughts of what if I cannot let it go? Who will I be? I notice that I want a how-to guide with a concrete answer!! My “understanding” feels like confusion. I am aware that this confusion is where my pain/suffering is sitting.


Xo skwerl

[Lubo]

Hi dear Xo skwerl,

Thanks for the reply.

This is the persona that wants to know and have the answers to this suffering.

Mm, when you find that there is no persona, what will happen with the persona?
Are you a persona or you are no persona already?

I am aware that this confusion is where my pain/suffering is sitting.

I hear you, pain and suffering - how they appear, what is the story?

Much love,
Lubo

[SkwerlGirl]

Good evening Lubo,

Mm, when you find that there is no persona, what will happen with the persona?

The persona will cease to be, cease to be an idea or a mask of beliefs.

Are you a persona or you are no persona already?

I feel very much like I have a self that wants security, that wants to know what’s coming, what’s happening. Even though I know that there is no way to know what the future holds, and it cannot be controlled.

I hear you, pain and suffering - how they appear, what is the story?

Pain and suffering appear as loneliness, feeling like the future is a dark unknown. I have glimmers where I feel free, and part of the universe, and then some panicky part of me claws back to the thoughts of The Future. Parts of me feel resistance to letting go. It’s a feeling that is out of control, I notice that right now. The illusion of control is what I’m attaching to, yes? And it isn’t bringing me any peace in this current false form. So why does it seem so difficult to then let go of the belief that I truly have zero control, that there are no answers?

[Lubo]

Hi dear Xo,

The persona will cease to be, cease to be an idea or a mask of beliefs.

Yes, beautiful. You see that persona is an idea. Persona cannot find and understand anything, because it is an idea.
How imagined structure can do or control?

I feel very much like I have a self that wants security, that wants to know what’s coming, what’s happening. Even though I know that there is no way to know what the future holds, and it cannot be controlled.

and

Pain and suffering appear as loneliness, feeling like the future is a dark unknown. I have glimmers where I feel free, and part of the universe, and then some panicky part of me claws back to the thoughts of The Future. Parts of me feel resistance to letting go...

Read these two again ...
and notice that you already found how kinky are you. Notice this panicky part - notice how this part is enjoying to panic. to be scare from the feature?
And poor mind is trying to deal with it :)
Stay with this part, say to it " Hi, I see you.I see all the things you have manifested in life...and notice that the memory will bring more of them.
Stay with that part and notice is there a do-ar, controller or just different parts of universe are playing .
How do you feel to see this?

Yes, you are already free.
perfect and complete,
notice that you are already here.

Much love,
Lubo

[SkwerlGirl]

Good afternoon dear Lubo,

Today while hiking in the woods I saw, fairly far ahead of me on the trail, a plastic container and a brown bag, carelessly left on the ground. This is private property, and I immediately noticed that I was angry that someone had trespassed AND littered. Fully angry! I was creating stories about this terrible person, how dare they leave their trash there and assume someone else would pick it up…and then I got close to the trash: It was a shiny grey rock (“plastic container”) and a piece of tree limb (“brown bag”). I had a totally made up, incorrect, entirely false story running in my mind that caused me grand discomfort. I see how clearly that my thought, fake thought, led me into an emotional state that had nothing to do with reality. An intense noticing! I have a faint realization that I do this in all aspects of my thoughts, in all areas of my life.

The panicky part of me: feels like an addiction. Now that I am noticing this morning’s illusion/fake thought, I see that panic has a deep seat in me, and plays a role in many of my stories or beliefs that I have about my life and self.

Is panic the “do-er”? I feel controlled by it, and now am starting to see that I create the panic! If I’m being really honest, the panic feelings have not saved me or predicted any outcome, just caused distress.

I will continue to sit with this panic, and keep noticing what it is trying to give me or protect or distract me from.

Thank you for your continued guidance. I am appreciating the kindness and the direction you offer!

Much love,
Skwerl

[Lubo]

Hi der Skwerl,
I like the way you see the thoughts as fake.
Yes. you can stop believe any single thoughts. Notice is there something more than story about someone - poor me?
Investigate - Do you do this exact thought right now?

The panicky part of me: feels like an addiction. Now that I am noticing this morning’s illusion/fake thought, I see that panic has a deep seat in me, and plays a role in many of my stories or beliefs that I have about my life and self.

Yes, panic part.
Notice this part right now or when is present.
Notice is there any effort from you this part to be here?
Notice that you live absolutely effortless ?
is there something which is not happening by itself, effortless?
You are looking for freedom,
notice that you are free already and everything is here, you are free from everything and with everything?
is there a persona? What belongs to the name? ;)

What belongs to the names Lubo or Skwerl, or Penelope Cruz..?

Much love,
Lubo

[SkwerlGirl]

Good morning Lubo,

Notice is there something more than story about someone - poor me?

Yes - I often feel like a victim, or someone that unpleasant things happen to. Sometimes I have a story that when things are going well I’ll jinx them and bad things will happen, poor me. I’ve often manifested this very situation, which of course supports my created story that I have power over outcomes or others. I don’t, in logical theory. But somewhere in my “self” I continue to believe this. I am noticing it more, alternately feel frustrated that I’ve self-harmed this way and aggravated that it’s still around. I do have this thought right now, it’s like a sad feeling draped over me. Pervasive. Yet my life is still traveling the same path.

Notice is there any effort from you this part to be here?
Notice that you live absolutely effortless ?
is there something which is not happening by itself, effortless?

I do live effortless, in that I am just alive and doing alive things (breathing, eating, moving, etc) with no real input from a director. However, I notice that when I feel panic/dread, I do not get out of its way, I feel I attach to it and it becomes bigger than me. For so long I have tried to “think” my way out of panic/fear, and it DOES NOT work. Repeating that the thought is fake has been helpful the last few days, although sometimes the feeling that I’m fooling myself is also present. That the panic is real. This panic does feel like it needs my attention to exist. So I am creating it falsely. But it feels so very real, and my body reacts also as if it is.

There is a persona, and a story I’ve attached to it and my name. But when I think of the name Lubo, I have few descriptors as I don’t really know Lubo, just have feelings of kindness and openness. Penelope Cruz is an actor, beauty and Spanish. But it does not tell me really about her.

When I think of my name, I see myself - but if I just tell you my name, how can you know me just by the name?

I had some time last night where I was in a flow state and had no thoughts, no panic, no sadness, I just was alive. In that moment I understand that I am free.

These are the moments I wish to lace together to feel peace as a majority.

Thank you Lubo, I feel I am having more cracks of understanding and am so grateful to be on this path.

Much love,

Skwerl

[Lubo]

Hi dear Skwerl,
I hear you. You are not alone.

There is a persona, and a story I’ve attached to it and my name.

Read this. Stay with it. Notice the experience which this points.
Then say to it: "I see you. you are just a nightmare. Illusion." And let the idea about persona die by itself, effortlessly.

let's see this closely:

I’ve often manifested this very situation, which of course supports my created story that I have power over outcomes or others

Notice what is the story, why you should fight and worry about outcomes and about relations with others?
Why outcomes cannot appear effortlessly?
when you find the answer, notice is that absolutely true?

relationship to happen effortlessly?
when you find the answer, notice is that absolutely true?

I had some time last night where I was in a flow state and had no thoughts, no panic, no sadness, I just was alive. In that moment I understand that I am free.

beautiful that you noticed that. This is the mechanism, protective programs. You find that you are freedom to/in which appear panic and sadness.
But look behind them, what can be found behind protection?

Notice what is happening in these moments when you don't pay attention to the stories?

much love,
Lubo
PS Next Friday - 19th we have an open zoom meeting part from Barcelona weekend retreat which we host in person, you can join online free of charge or donation If you resonate with that send me your email and i will send you zoom link.

[SkwerlGirl]

Good morning Lubo!

Notice what is the story, why you should fight and worry about outcomes and about relations with others?
Why outcomes cannot appear effortlessly?

Outcomes are not appearing nor happening effortlessly because something inside of me is protecting me and creating stories and thoughts about things, some completely unconscious. No current truths in these thoughts. Old ones, some memories, all fake.

You find that you are freedom to/in which appear panic and sadness.
But look behind them, what can be found behind protection?

I find a frightened, sad small person behind the protection, so afraid of loss and loneliness. I am protecting something precious, yet by that very protection I’m not able to be present or conscious of my emotions or those of others. Making these connections is not effortless, as these protections are in the way - again, consciously and unconsciously. This is what I need to sit with, to experience. I feel it has been with me always, and I’m not sure how it will ease.

Thank you for your invitation! Depending on time zones, I will join you!
Vandoverdanae@gmail.com

I feel your kindness, and love,

Skwerl

[Lubo]

Hi dear Skwerl,

Outcomes are not appearing nor happening effortlessly because something inside of me is protecting me and creating stories and thoughts about things, some completely unconscious. No current truths in these thoughts. Old ones, some memories, all fake.

Excellent that you can see this: Protection says "You should make effort in order to achieve/deserve money, love, security..."

I find a frightened, sad small person behind the protection, so afraid of loss and loneliness. I am protecting something precious, yet by that very protection I’m not able to be present or conscious of my emotions or those of others. Making these connections is not effortless, as these protections are in the way - again, consciously and unconsciously. This is what I need to sit with, to experience. I feel it has been with me always, and I’m not sure how it will ease

Notice that you are looking that there is no small persona behind protection, right?

Now follow these steps one by one, do this for your freedom. Don't miss any step.
first check,Do you really, REALLY want to see trough illusion of protective mechanisms?
When the answer is YES
Then and only then invite your power, your anger.
Ask it, "Hi my dear anger, are you here, are you alive?
When you find the answer from anger ask it also
"How powerful you are, can you hold aside all protective mechanisms which make me small until I investigate?"
After receiving YES, from anger, feel that the anger is here and keep all protections far from you.
Then notice:
that there is only you, only NOW, only what is ?
and everything is happening effortlessly?
and all this beauty deserve love, money, security and no need for effort?

See this for 1 sec even.
And put in words what is found.

I am with you,

Much love,
Lubo
PS.
The meeting is 5 pm time in Barcelona, is it work for you?

[SkwerlGirl]

Good morning Dear Lubo,

Busy weekend (this is my busy season!), and so I am now sitting down to better answer.

Unfortunately, I will be teaching during the Zoom Friday 4/19, and I couldn't reschedule the class. Please keep me in mind for next opportunity, and I will either secure a substitute or not schedule that teaching day!

Protection says "You should make effort in order to achieve/deserve money, love, security..."

I feel I do need to make effort. I feel sometimes that if I efforted more, I would have love, security, etc. I know somewhere inside of me that love, money, security etc is already mine, it is in me, but it also feels elusive and separated from me. This seems to be the paradox in which I am existing right now.

Do you really, REALLY want to see trough illusion of protective mechanisms?

I do. I am somewhat terrified of the unfamiliarity of all I am doing/practicing, but I am also noticing changes in me and so am encouraged to keep going. I am so aware of the feeling that I need to heal myself, for this world. That my actions, thoughts, stories, protections, blind spots....that keep repeating in my life and every relationship are mine, mine to notice and mine to heal.

And I also am noticing that I am angry, angry at my non-knowing, angry with myself and alternately at my partner for the loss of our relationship, angry that I am just coming to emotions and all of these discoveries after years of suffering. I am also grateful for the opportunity that exists for me to continue to grow, learn and change. Again, big paradox!

Today is my day off for this week, and I have time to sit with myself and to begin to investigate these questions you have given me.

Thank you for continued guidance,

Much love,

Skwerl

[Lubo]

Hi dear Skwerl,
I like your reply.

I feel I do need to make effort. I feel sometimes that if I efforted more, I would have love, security, etc. I know somewhere inside of me that love, money, security etc is already mine, it is in me, but it also feels elusive and separated from me. This seems to be the paradox in which I am existing right now.

Yes, beautiful noticing. Look around, you notice that everything is taken care of, already. And in the same time there is an idea that there is kind of a me which exist, which is alive and the night mare I and my live appear.
What is coming when you say - "I am not alive, I am not a thing" ?

That my actions, thoughts, stories, protections, blind spots....that keep repeating in my life and every relationship are mine, mine to notice and mine to heal.

Ok. Notice the feelings - there is no persona already, so to what these feelings belong to? Are they personal? Thus question is not for the mind to play with it but to notice that the wholeness appear as this feeling ?
and to realise that you are already whole complete and perfect and there is no persona, nothing personal?
heal - yes, just recognise that this part which need healing and love belong to the wholeness, to this very moment?

And I also am noticing that I am angry, angry at my non-knowing, angry with myself and alternately at my partner for the loss of our relationship, angry that I am just coming to emotions and all of these discoveries after years of suffering.

I am familiar with this. my tip is - Allow imagination and anger to bring pictures of revenge, enjoy it, feel the juiciness, play with it until you become big, vast and free

Please keep me in mind for next opportunity,

Nice, ok send me your email and you will receive info every week what is going on.

Much love,
lubo

[SkwerlGirl]

Good morning Lubo!

What is coming when you say - "I am not alive, I am not a thing" ?

When I read this, my first thought is "I am alive", but upon deeper reflection, I am a living being, not making myself alive, I am already alive, in this body. It just happened, "I" have nothing to do with it. It feels relieving, to know that I don't have to work so hard to BE ALIVE. I just am an alive being.

so to what these feelings belong to? Are they personal? Thus question is not for the mind to play with it but to notice that the wholeness appear as this feeling ? just recognise that this part which need healing and love belong to the wholeness, to this very moment?

Last night while sitting, I finally found my inner child. I've been trying to meet her, love her and hold her, and last night we met. These feelings of stories, thoughts, protections....are all buried as old memories in her, which never were able to be expressed or relieved with love or comfort. So I did that last night. I held her in my arms, let her sob and have a tantrum, and then we danced and played. Here I felt wholeness and love, very much in the moment. And I slept for the night for the first time in weeks.

Allow imagination and anger to bring pictures of revenge, enjoy it, feel the juiciness, play with it until you become big, vast and free

Thank you for this allowance! My inner child let me know she was never allowed to express anger, and so now I am letting it out of this body. It feels powerful and scary at first, like vomit, and then once released, I feel relieved and softer. I will keep letting these feelings loose, out of this body. I notice I am not choosing these feelings and thoughts, they are just coming through. I cannot control these thoughts, they just happen, and have no steering on reality. They just appear and then they are finished. These thoughts and emotions do not control or change anything that is happening around me. They just change the way I feel in the moments, and I am understanding that the change/control they have over my life and happenings isn't real. What I am experiencing is real, and I want to just keep experiencing.

My email is:
vandoverdanae@gmail.com
and I thank you for including me!

Also - I am now signing my responses in my real name, Elise, and I will use this from now on!

xoxox so much gratitude,
Elise