Going home

[DragonHerb]

Is there a self that chooses or controls this back and forth?

No, The “I” thought has no control over this.

Does it happen to a separate constant self?

No, in the absence of an “I” it’s just what is happening.

When identification happens, what is mainly actually going on?

A stream of “I, me, my” thoughts associated with feelings/sensations. Possessive and self referencing.

Does it indicate a real self? Look at this, many times during a day, and report back.

No, when looking it’s seen that it’s just a phenomenon that is occurring. Setting up a point of reference that is not locatable upon inspection.

Some things that come up, not sure if it’s useful but it is what it is.

—
The mind is resisting, it’s still looking for something that is not here, wanting an experience of some sort to mark “an awakening”.

Feelings of shame and guilt of “failing” arise.

Why does it feel shameful to be alive?

What is trying to hide? And what is it trying to hide from?

Feelings of disgust, shame and rejecting life as it is.
—

Those questions are not seeking answers from you. Just what is being seen in the looking.

[Elad]

Is there a self that chooses or controls this back and forth?

No, The “I” thought has no control over this.

Does it happen to a separate constant self?

No, in the absence of an “I” it’s just what is happening.

When identification happens, what is mainly actually going on?

A stream of “I, me, my” thoughts associated with feelings/sensations. Possessive and self referencing.

Does it indicate a real self? Look at this, many times during a day, and report back.

No, when looking it’s seen that it’s just a phenomenon that is occurring. Setting up a point of reference that is not locatable upon inspection.

Some things that come up, not sure if it’s useful but it is what it is.

—
The mind is resisting, it’s still looking for something that is not here, wanting an experience of some sort to mark “an awakening”.

Feelings of shame and guilt of “failing” arise.

Why does it feel shameful to be alive?

What is trying to hide? And what is it trying to hide from?

Feelings of disgust, shame and rejecting life as it is.
—

Those questions are not seeking answers from you. Just what is being seen in the looking.

Good work.

Can the "I thought" think or experience?

I thought
Strawberry thought
World war thought

Can any of them experience and do? Or just thoughts and then more thoughts and sensations?


Give full space to the disappointed expectations about how awakening is and about you! What are they saying?

Can you let all that be?
Would you like to let it be and move by itself?

[DragonHerb]

Can the "I thought" think or experience?

I thought
Strawberry thought
World war thought

Oh! No, the thoughts don’t think at all. The mind just seems to throw thoughts up, at a rapid pace that it appears as “thinking” but no. Thinking is not actually a thing… “I’m thinking”, “let me think” words that have been spoken so many times seem so silly.

It appears that the mind is just blasting through things it sees as related, like a pattern matching machine. So quickly that it’s hypnotic. So fast that the content is unchecked. The “I” slips by unnoticed and blindly accepted. A voice from nowhere speaking in the first person; cheeky.

But who or what needs to check the content? It’s all just happening … Paradoxically, it seems, the mind is going to need to unravel itself here.

Can any of them experience and do? Or just thoughts and then more thoughts and sensations?

No thoughts don’t experience, thoughts don’t do they are just seen. Experience is happening, doing is happening, sensations are happening, and thoughts are happening.

Every time I check there’s nothing, just emptiness, emptiness and happening. Or rather nothingness happening. The mind is struggling to grasp that, words are confusing here.

What’s coming up now is reverence, appreciation, wonder.

Give full space to the disappointed expectations about how awakening is and about you! What are they saying?

I wanted to be someone special.
If there’s a joke here, I don’t get it.
Nothing is happening.
Was it all a dream?
This can’t be it.
What was I looking for again?
There’s a warmth in the pain.
Why?
How long must this go on?
A deep silence behind the thoughts and feelings.
A deep silence behind the sights and sounds.
When will it stop?
What am I holding on to? Why am I holding on so tight?
What would happen if I just stop, just let go?
How, how to let go?
Clutching, grabbing, there’s nothing to hold onto.
There’s nothing to grab with.
There’s the central knot.
That’s been there for so long.
Or has it? The only reference is another thought, how can I know that was ever true?
Has anything but this right now ever happened?
How could I possibly know?
Am I going insane?
The clock is ticking I must get back to work.
…

All these thoughts are empty, ghosts, phantoms … there’s nothing in them.
So hypnotic, but entirely fictional - No thought is real.
Why is so much energy given to an illusion?

Can you let all that be?

It’s seems that is what is happening, being, things come with a will to be, they are, then they go. An infinite cascade of rising and falling, coming and going.

How strange, how fascinating, like a heart beating. Yet no one mourns the previous heart beat. What’s the difference? The label we give it? The meaning we infer? What if it’s all meaningless? Just this with no purpose … how beautiful … tears are coming now.

If there’s no meaning, why keep searching?
If there’s no self, why keep the illusion going?

Would you like to let it be and move by itself?

“I” have no choice. “I” have never been in control. “My” life just happened. “I” didn’t choose this. Grief is arising now. I’ll sit with it for a while.

[Elad]

Beautiful, completely natural with all these feelings. Write me again soon!

[DragonHerb]

Beautiful, completely natural with all these feelings. Write me again soon!

Parts of stories from the tv are playing in the mind. Different shows getting muddled together.
Was the story of Logan ever true? Where did it come from?
There are things there that might not have happened, misinterpreted, all tainted with a world view.
It’s all borrowed! “My” whole personality, borrowed, bits and pieces from here and there, parents, society, media, movies, tv, books … a mass of information - none of it me.

What’s the point in even speaking? It’s just conditioned responses, triggered reactions.

Other people see a “me”, they ask about “me”. Why did you do that? They ask … I don’t know, it’s just happened. How can one live like that? How can one function in the world without a “me”?

Oh, that’s not true they don’t see me, they can’t, their “Logan” and my “me” are just projections in different minds. All of them equally fictitious, phantoms the lot of them.
How many “Logans” are there? As many as the number of minds that have encountered “me”. Oh my, “I’m everywhere” hahahahaha. I bet none of them agree on who “Logan” is hahahaha.
Oh, oh, wow! So much goes into trying to curate other phantoms, what does this one think of “Logan”, can’t do that, their “Logan” might not look so good. - How absurd!

Watching the cat watching the floor.
A thought comes, a sensation arises but it doesn’t mean anything.

Writing things down adds another dimension, interesting.

Any effort is too much, no effort is needed, it already is. Seeking continues, it’s seen, it’s ok, nothing needs to be done. Sensations arising, it’s ok, nothing needs to be done.

No labels are needed, no analysis is needed, nothing needs to be done. Nothing needs to happen.

Awarness is constant, unaffected by the content, the content changes but the awareness is unchanging. It has no opinions, no preferences, no hangups, no voice, all accepting, no wants, no problems, no fears, no doubts, nothing can touch it. It sees all, it is no one. Is this love? - Unspeakable, beyond words. The play of life happens here.

Oh I think I understand “God is no respecter of persons”.

“I think I” - hah, cute.

The cracks are showing, there’s no substance to “me”. It feels like the charade is seen and starting to destabilise.

It’s indisputable, undeniable, self-evident, unmissable but somehow mostly overlooked … thoughts are coming to confirm this but they’re not needed. Funny; not a problem.

Vast and open, all experience is dependent on this awareness and inexplicably intertwined yet untouched by any of it. The mind cannot know this, the mind is in awareness. Awareness being aware of being aware.

Not coming, not going, not in time, not moving, not in space. Simply as it is. The only truth I can find.

[Elad]

Yes :)

At this place sometimes a belief in nihilism comes (it's all worthless, etc). If that comes it's helpful ti remember that is just a belief plus feelings and it passes. Clarity will go beyond that.

Is there anything missing?

[Elad]

Also how is "conventional life", work, interactions, etc. Any changes?

[DragonHerb]

Yes :)

At this place sometimes a belief in nihilism comes (it's all worthless, etc). If that comes it's helpful ti remember that is just a belief plus feelings and it passes. Clarity will go beyond that.

Oh, not worthless. Without a point, in a beautiful way. Accepting rather than rejecting.

Is there anything missing?

No. What could be missing, that question seems absurd. :)

[Elad]

Beautiful. Here are the final questions. Please answer all in one message and have every answer beneath the appropriate question so it's easy to read. Enjoy!



1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

ANSWER:

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

ANSWER:

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before we started this dialogue? Please report from the past couple of days.

ANSWER:

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

ANSWER:

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control.

ANSWER:

6) What makes things happen? How does it work?

ANSWER:

7) What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

ANSWER:

8) Anything to add?

ANSWER

[DragonHerb]

Also how is "conventional life", work, interactions, etc. Any changes?

Less stress as a lot of the desire to change things has gone.

More open, more warmth when interacting with others, less focus on “myself” and more on them. Especially with strangers .. not so walled off internally.

My wife thinks I’m a “weirdo”, probably won’t talk about this much. No matter.

[Elad]

Also how is "conventional life", work, interactions, etc. Any changes?

Less stress as a lot of the desire to change things has gone.

More open, more warmth when interacting with others, less focus on “myself” and more on them. Especially with strangers .. not so walled off internally.

My wife thinks I’m a “weirdo”, probably won’t talk about this much. No matter.

🤍🙏🌻

[DragonHerb]

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No, there is no separate “me”, only awareness of being.

There never was, there never could be a separate self.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

Well there is awareness and attention, attention is like a spotlight focusing awareness. Mind appears in awareness and presumably (I don’t know) generates thought, attention goes to the content of the thought, the thoughts tell stories and narrates experience in the first person “I”, “me”, “mine”. Attention gets hooked on this as the thoughts become relentless. The body seems to have a physical response to this and sensations are generated, the mind then labels them and creates a connection to a thought. This becomes a “feeling/emotion” and it is directed back at the “me”. This combination of hooked attention, first person narrative and “emotions” form the illusion of “me”. This is accepted by the mind as true and largely remains unchallenged.

When did it start? That’s hard to say… probably when language was starting to be used; early childhood.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before we started this dialogue? Please report from the past couple of days.

Well now it seems obvious and self-evident.

The difference now is that while the narrative continues (not as much self-referencing, more just labelling, processing ideas, task related etc) attention more often unhooks and softens into awareness itself. With less “self” there is less emotion.

It also appears most of the remaining thoughts are pointless, things are known and then a thought comes to talk about it. I have a good chuckle at this.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

Being encouraged to really delve into what I had described as the nothingness behind my experience. The alive nothingness.

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control.

Those are all concepts in the story. They don’t ultimately exist.

6) What makes things happen? How does it work?

I don’t know that anything makes things happen; things happen because they happen.

It seems things are and then they’re not; always changing but nothing changes.

How, what, why? … I don’t know, I could speculate but it’s not important.

Being, being, being. - Isn’t English a fun language. :)

7) What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

On one level things are going on, work is being done, money is being earned, kids are being fed. But there is no one responsible for it, no one doing it, it’s just happening; life is taking care of itself.

8) Anything to add?

That you so very much for all of this!

It was one thing to ponder these things but it seems doing this with the written word made some space, like it took the thoughts out of the stream long enough for the cracks to appear.

Much love to you, and the rest of your crew.

[Elad]

Beautiful Logan. Can you please write more about how it FEELS (point 3), final questions are being read by other guides too (who help if they can) and they dont read the last exchanges we had before.

[DragonHerb]

Beautiful Logan. Can you please write more about how it FEELS (point 3), final questions are being read by other guides too (who help if they can) and they dont read the last exchanges we had before.

It feels, open, vast, sublime, untouched, uninterrupted. Thoughts flow with no place to land. There’s an absence of things feeling personal. It’s like there is an attempt by thoughts to hook on but they are transparent, the bright light of awareness shines straight through them and their lack of substance is known.

Free, it feels free, unencumbered, embracing and peaceful.

Ultimately indescribable.

On a more physical level today the body has been hit by waves of bliss/pleasure from time to time, somewhat overwhelming at times but not uncomfortably so. Eyes need to close and experience this.

[Elad]

Hi Logan,

Very lovely, thank you for your answers, some guides looked and had no further questions, just appreciation!
It was an absolute pleasure to guide you and I am grateful for it.

I would just like to give some final things to consider:

For the vast vast majority if not all of us, isn't the end of integration. It will continue until it doesn't.

Doubt may or may not later put in an appearance (or many). It often arrives as we come out of the 'honeymoon' phase.

Paying it forward by guiding is a great way to 'deepen'.

You will be invited to the Unleashed FB group. You are encouraged to use it to communicate with others that have recently 'gated'.

You are invited to any of 3 free weekly zoom groups where you can work on anything that comes up or support people who have not "gated", who are there for that. (email vinceschubert@gmail.com)

There is a forum (also called Unleashed) which isn't public, where you can work with a guide or even a couple of guides, on anything that comes up.

There will almost certainly be conditioned "aversive" responses that will get triggered sooner or later, when circumstances align. This doesn't mean that you have lost anything (you can't loose what you always are). It's most likely that the triggers on them hadn't been pulled yet.

The same seeing that took you through the gate will put these in perspective too.
The invitation is to walk lighter in the experiencing.

Thanks again and enjoy.