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[Linda61]

Hi J.P.

Just getting back to this after teaching yoga classes.

So, while teaching today it seems like the words just flowed; I wasn't managing the students, the voice just spoke. The class almost taught itself. lol There seemed to be no controller/director.

This is a fun place to hang out. There is typing and the formation of sentences without thought.

I sense that often during the day... the vegetables just get cut... the knife moves... I don't direct the hand to move and there isn't a thought train that says... 'move your hand, get the carrots, find the plates...'

The life activities seem to flow.

I think that is what you are asking, but guide me again if I am off track.

Thank you,
Linda

[indranet]

linda,

But when I look at seeing I get nothing.It just feels empty. Like it's a nothing.

Is there a seer?

The class almost taught itself. lol There seemed to be no controller/director.

Is there a doer?

[Linda61]

Hi J.P,

Is there a seer?
My direct experience is there is sight/vision (colors and shapes) and a little pull to the chest. That little pull seems to bring identifcation with it,' I' am seeing-- but that seems silly to type.

Where would the 'I' hide that is separate from the seeing? There seemes to be something that 'sees', but it isn't a 'seer' like a thing. It's more like it knows the seeing.

This still feels like a little identifcation/separation.

I am probably making it complicated so please guide me.

Is there a do-er?

This one is easier with so much flow in life's ordinary movement; taking a shower, shampooing hair, going to the bathroom, getting in the car, walking the dogs... there is no thought process or a tiny director in my head. No doer.

[indranet]

linda,

little pull to the chest. That little pull seems to bring identifcation with it,'

look at this further, is it evidence of an "I" or sensation.

It's more like it knows the seeing.

Can there be a knowing without an "I"?

J.P

[Linda61]

Hi J.P.

look at this further, is it evidence of an "I" or sensation.

The little pull to the chest is only a sensation. No label needed. I have investigated this before but I am revisiting it with you to remove any cobwebs of identification.

A sensation doesn't have any information inherent in it. The sensation in the chest comes and goes! That feels important; the sensation is impersonal and neutral. It's obvious the sensation carries no evidence with it; the sensation doesn't have intelligence.

Can there be a knowing without an "I"?

What a beautiful question. That stops me. Knowing could be by itself, no owner of the knowing is showing up (like an I"). This is a bit of a revelation. There is a sense of knowing.

There could be noticing without a noticer, there could be seeing without a seer. I say 'could' be because these are baby steps.

Thank you ,
Linda

[indranet]

linda,

The sensation in the chest comes and goes! That feels important; the sensation is impersonal and neutral.

Sensation comes and goes. Do you come and go?

Knowing could be by itself, no owner of the knowing is showing up

there could be seeing without a seer.

Is there a difference between knowing and seeing?



J.P

[Linda61]

Hi J.P.

Sensation comes and goes. Do you come and go?

I don't come and go. This is very obvious. (sensations, sounds, thoughts all come and go)

is there a difference between knowing and seeing?

This is a perplexing question in a fun way. The mind stops for a second. hmmm
Upon investigation knowing and seeing have previously been divided up; but not sure why? They don't need to be divided!
Just to clarify--you don't mean 'knowing' like knowledge and concepts?

I am thinking of knowing in more of an open way? ....I might need a bit of an explanation from you so I don't go on a strange tangent.

Thank you,
Linda

[indranet]

linda,

There could be noticing without a noticer, there could be seeing without a seer. I say 'could' be because these are baby steps.

Keep looking into your own experience until you are sure.

you don't mean 'knowing' like knowledge and concepts?

When you wake up in the morning you" know" you exist and are conscious. Do you have to think about it?

[Linda61]

Hi J.P.

Thank you for clarifying about the 'knowing'---that is exactly what I "thought' you meant, but wanted to be sure.
Yes, a knowing without a thought about it, yes, yes. Got it.

I will look at the other question now.

Thank you.

[Linda61]

Hi J.P,

I am jubilant about 'knowing and seeing'--it's clear now that they are the same; it had them in 2 categories, but they are the same. This is getting easier.

Now, back to-- noticing without the noticer.....seeing without a seer.....

It helps me to write.... noticing without a "separate person' noticer...... seeing without a separate seer......
This makes it more clear, but want to make sure I am not missing something by rewording it.

There is no separate self hidden in a little microchip that is noticing; likewise there is no separate self tucked away that is seeing. A separate self seems to be another thought --completely without any substanciality. (Not sure if that is a word).

And, of course, a sensation in the body wouldn't indicate separate self-ness. That was discovered already. A sensation has no information, (repeating that again)

Sometimes I have trouble staying on topic, so please go back and help me stay the course if I need to.
Linda

[indranet]

linda,

A separate self seems to be another thought

Yes,exactly.

Here is a thought exercise.
Sit quietly for about 30 minutes and notice the arising thoughts. Just let them appear as they appear. Try your best to COMPLETELY ignore what they are saying and just notice how they appear without you doing anything at all.

Where are they coming from and going to?
Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?
Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?
Can you predict your next thought?
Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?
Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?
Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?
Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?
It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence? Or is that just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that ‘one thought follows another thought’?


J.P

[Linda61]

Hi J.P.,

Happy Saturday! Oh my I am going to have fun with this today!

[Linda61]

Hi J.P,

I made a recording of the questions regarding thought on my voice app---and played it while seated with eyes closed.

Full disclosure, 'working' with thought for many months on my own before meeting you--there were many realizations about the nature of thought-- and the thought world began to feel different. Thoughts just didn't seem so important anymore. Some thoughts seem to stick a bit; so the investigation is helpful.

So, regarding the fun questions--and looking with 'fresh' eyes today as if it is all brand new:

Thoughts just appear from no where and disappear into no where.
There is no 'thought button' pressed to make a thought appear. (funny)
Thoughts seem to occur randomly hopping from subject to subject.
Thoughts don't appear to be chosen (like pleasant or unpleasant, or fearful or negative).
The sequencing of thoughts is very interesting; thoughts can't know other thoughts and thoughts can't remember other thoughts to stay on a certain topic. Thoughts don't carry intelligence. (funny)

Regards,
Linda

[indranet]

linda,

Some thoughts seem to stick a bit; so the investigation is helpful.

Which types of thought stick?

[Linda61]

Hi J.P.

Which types of thoughts stick?

Sticky thoughts seem to be a silly phrase as I read it again. Maybe the repetitve thoughts have seemed like an identity that sticks. That really seems impossible now! After the questions that you sent about thought investigation-- that belief that breaks down.

Thoughts just come and go randomly.

And, upon investigation and inquiry right now (again) thoughts can't create identity. Thoughts don't do anything except come and go.

This relationship/non-relationship with thought is really breaking down as I type. ( And review the questions.)
Thank you,
Linda