Seeking more than an intellectual understanding

[solstice]

The mind - is this the place where the thoughts you have no control of arise? (see previous exercises)

Past experiences - are these not thoughts now?


The body (which your thoughts do not control - see previous exercises)

yes to all

Is there any clear dividing line between them? Or only the Sensation with no clear division?

There is only the sensation, definitely no clear division in direct experience. Thoughts try to tell me that this sensation is itself the division between them

[jrm72]

Morning Solstice,

How is your sense of "I" doing?

❤️🖖

[solstice]

How is your sense of "I" doing?

I am still getting lost in “I” thoughts pretty often. I am able to notice them as just being thoughts sometimes, but my mind is good at making the perfect story to hook me in. I also still feel like I am my body/mind in moment to moment experience.

[jrm72]

Morning again Solstice,

I am still getting lost in “I” thoughts pretty often. I am able to notice them as just being thoughts sometimes, but my mind is good at making the perfect story to hook me in. I also still feel like I am my body/mind in moment to moment experience.

Yes, getting lost in thoughts still happens, it does become less frequent and shorter in duration. Also, its easier to deal with the after effects..

You won't necessarily lose the illusion of body/mind as a self, you see through it.
A good example is a mirage of water in the dessert. You see the water and walk towards it, when you get there, there is no water. Next time you see the mirage, it still looks like water, but you know it isn't.




Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment.


❤️🖖

[solstice]

You won't necessarily lose the illusion of body/mind as a self, you see through it.

So I need to keep on making a conscious effort until eventually it will become instinctually seen through?

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment.

My thoughts when seen through tell me no “I” am not the thoughts but the observer of the thoughts.
At this point is it just a continual concerted effort to look at every I thought and see that it is just a thought?

[jrm72]

Morning Solstice,

So I need to keep on making a conscious effort until eventually it will become instinctually seen through?

You will make the effort you make, because you are still seeking.
It's when you relax with what you now know that the seeing will be clearer.
Like learning to ride a bike, you try and try. Once you can ride it feels effortless.

My thoughts when seen through tell me no “I” am not the thoughts but the observer of the thoughts.
At this point is it just a continual concerted effort to look at every I thought and see that it is just a thought?

Be gentle with yourself.
A good process is whenever you notice a thought for what it is (just a thought that happens, that you don't have to believe), then smile (or if you have the space, laugh out loud).
This makes the process fun and more likely to happen again and more often.


❤️🖖

[solstice]

You will make the effort you make, because you are still seeking.
It's when you relax with what you now know that the seeing will be clearer.
Like learning to ride a bike, you try and try. Once you can ride it feels effortless.

This all makes sense, will stopping seeking be a gradual thing? I assume it is different from person to person

A good process is whenever you notice a thought for what it is (just a thought that happens, that you don't have to believe), then smile (or if you have the space, laugh out loud).

I will do this from now on :)

[jrm72]

Hey Solstice,

This all makes sense, will stopping seeking be a gradual thing? I assume it is different from person to person

Yes, seems to be different for everyone. Ranging from an eye opening moment, to oh didn't even realise it had happened.

You've already had some insight and glimpses, it's when it becomes a lived experience rather than an intellectual understanding, that you get (for want of a better description) a perspective shift.


❤️🖖

[solstice]

it's when it becomes a lived experience rather than an intellectual understanding, that you get (for want of a better description) a perspective shift.

Is there anything I should/shouldn’t be doing whilst waiting for it to become a lived experience?

[jrm72]

Morning Solstice,

Is there anything I should/shouldn’t be doing whilst waiting for it to become a lived experience?

This is a difficult question to answer in any coherent way. You'll look back on this question and smile.

For now it's best for me to say continue doing what you're doing, the conundrum or paradox will became apparent when you see there's no do'er.

Like the palm flipping exercise, where the hand is flipping itself.

Take any action you do and look for where the thought came from that you think was the cause andvlook forca do'er of the action.

Look for a thinker and a do'er.

Have fun and smile.



❤️🖖

[jrm72]

andvlook forca = and look for a

(sure you got that, but wanted to be clear 🤣)

[solstice]

andvlook forca = and look for a

(sure you got that, but wanted to be clear 🤣)

hahahah yep I got it

[jrm72]

Morning Solstice,

Any luck with finding a thinker or a do'er?


❤️🖖

[solstice]

Any luck with finding a thinker or a do'er?

Still coming up empty when I remember to look. I/me thoughts are becoming more easily/quickly noticed for the most part, however some juicy ones still manage to slip by and grab hold of awareness for some time.

[jrm72]

Evening Solstice,

Still coming up empty when I remember to look.

I get the impression you think it is a bad thing to be coming up empty, it's not.

I/me thoughts are becoming more easily/quickly noticed for the most part, however some juicy ones still manage to slip by and grab hold of awareness for some time.

Yes some thoughts have large hooks.
Try seeing if you can find the story behind the thought.


Also try this -


Stream Exercise

Imagine for a moment a scene, one of a little mountain stream which is tumbling down a hillside gully, not far from its source. It has been raining and so the level is quite high.

Consider in your mind's eye, if you can, how it flows to the right over a little rock (where, had the level been lower, it would probably have gone around the rock), then the flow goes to the left over a tree bow, and then slows a little in a broader place, before splashing over a small cascade into a pool, and so on down the mountain side.

Does it choose any of its directions? Is it even really a separate entity different from the water deposited in it, the rocks, the depressions in the ground etc? Is it even the same entity moment by moment, or more the product of weather conditions and water, like an ever-changing pattern?

1. Can you find anywhere where "Solstice" autonomously intervenes into life, choosing something that is not the product of all the elements; that is not a part of the overall flow?

2. Now please consider a regular decision made eg; what to wear in the morning, or what to eat for lunch, and describe to me what happens. There are environmental factors, there are colour preferences (but where did those come from - any autonomous intervention there perhaps?), practical issues (such as what is available), available time for preparation, purpose (eg; need to fill up for the day, or to look hip and cool for that person!) etc.

Where in there is an autonomous entity intervening in the flow of life? Can you find someone somewhere?

3. Can anything be found for which "Solstice" is responsible – if so responsible to what and for what?





❤️🖖