Waking Up

[riledup23]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I understand this to mean that the sense that I am a subject looking at a field of objects out there is a false illusion. That there is no separation in actuality between perceiver and perceived. What we call/think of as our "self" is a conditioned phenomena that arises on a moment to moment basis, its not something that we fundamentally are.

What are you looking for at LU?
I'm looking for help in recognizing the absence of a separate self. I'm curious about this kind of exploration. Of course I want peace/freedom/greater clarity and understanding and ability to function in my daily life. Thats at least what I hope to get from recognizing the absence of separateness. I'm also deeply curious about the nature of experience and want to know who I really am.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
As I've never done this before I'm honestly not sure. I mean I hope for the guide to be kind and supportive, I appreciate that kind of relating. I'm a fairly sensitive person although I am willing to be challenged if its done with compassion and to help me grow.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I've been practicing meditation and learning about Buddhism for the past 9 years. I haven't had a consistent practice that whole time. I've been on 5 retreats and spent over a year living in a Zen monastery in California. I'm most familiar with Zen practice but I've also am familiar with Vipassana learning from American teachers (Spirit Rock). Mostly I've done concentration on the breath and just sitting practice. I have not done very much practice where I'm sitting and asking myself questions in an inquiry style sort of way.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 9

[Bananafish]

HI, riledup23. :). My name is Kento, one of the guides at LU.

I have a Zen background, and might be fit for helping someone like you,
who has the same background.

Let me know when you're ready, and we could start the conversation.

Regards,

Kento

[riledup23]

Hi Kento,
Nice to meet you. Thanks for responding. I'm ready to start. Lets do it.

Best,
Reilly

[Bananafish]

Hi Reilly. :) Nice to meet you, too.
Ok, let's start now.

First of all, please point to where you feel (not think)
you, the subject experiencing things, are.

Actually point at it with your finger, and be careful to be
as precise as you can.

Let's see what comes out.

Best,

Kento

[riledup23]

Ok I did it. and I ended up pointing right between my eyes on the bridge of my nose

[Bananafish]

Thanks, Reilly. :)

I ended up pointing right between my eyes on the bridge of my nose

Let's go deeper into how that particular location feels.

Please feel into it and describe it in terms of bodily sensation; in other words,
please tell not what you think about it, but rather tell how it is felt here and now,
right in this moment.

Take as much time as needed, don't hurry to any conclusion.
Let the sensation reveal itself.

Warmly,

Kento

[riledup23]

I feel a density in that location, there is pressure and when I zoom in my attention there i perceive vibration, like vibrating particles moving around

[Bananafish]

Ok, thanks, Reilly.

Have a closer look at that vibrating sensation, and right after that,
look for the one, the subject, that is that is feeling the sensation.

If you find it, see how you can perceive that "subject."
Is is seen? Smelled? Touched? Or else?

Have a fun inquiry!

Kento

[Bananafish]

Hi Reilly. :) Are you still there to
answer the questions?

[riledup23]

im not having fun with this one haha. im kinda frustrated and confused. There seems to be a sensation that there is a me. I feel the sensation on the bridge of my nose and I have this distinct sense that someone (me) is perceiving/having this sensation. When I look for the subject, I find sensations throughout my body (tension in my forehead and in my chest) that seem like they are the subject. But the actual sense of subjectivity seems not to be anywhere, i can't really pinpoint it to one location but I feel it strongly

[Bananafish]

Thanks. :). Just to make sure, would you still be willing to
continue the inquiry and finish the process?

[riledup23]

Yes please!

[Bananafish]

Sure, Reilly. :)

Let’s focus a bit more on that sense of
subjectivity. You said it can’t be located
while it is sensed strongly.

Does that suggest the sense is moving / changing
all the time? Please observe it again and
report.

Regards,

Kento

[riledup23]

Hmm well sometimes the sense of subjectivity feels solid and concrete and other times it feels more diffuse (particularly if I’m meditating). Am I supposed to be able to locate the sense of subjectivity in space? It seems like it can’t be attributed to any one sensation.

[Bananafish]

sometimes the sense of subjectivity feels solid and concrete and other times it feels more diffuse (particularly if I’m meditating).

You're talking about the content of your memory, but we're always dealing with
the raw sensations that are felt here and now, not the dead ones in memory.

So, as you read this, how is that "subjectivity" felt?
Observe it again and please report.

(And it's very nice at the same time that you're seeing the nature of that sense by yourself,
without my alluding to anything about it)

Keep inquiring!


Kento