I have a pain in my face with Spirituality, I’m going home.

[Truthfull]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
Before all things is everything. Silent, still, aloof to my cries for peace. I’m a wave that wants to be a wave and the ocean, safely crashing back on myself. I am = suffering.

What are you looking for at LU?
I’m looking for help that will never come. I want to rub my conditioned self out. I want to integrate my wounds. I want to be here. I want peace. I am broken and want to go home to remember my perfection. A little love and help.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
A tormentor that points to that, until that wakes up in “me”. A support to wake up. I do t really know. My sense is you can’t help me and this is just another distraction. I expect to be disappointed.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
20 years of searching. 8 retreats, 6 with Adya. Following the Angelo crew lately. 100’s of panic attacks. Someone said recently that the worst thing that will ever happen to you has already happened.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10

[Elad]

Hello, my name is Elad and I would be happy to do this exploration with you, if we see that it makes sense. Please read and respond to the following points.

1. During this process we will attend only to your own direct experience. We will not be discussing theories or beliefs or other methods, including from non-duality and etc. I will ask you questions and give exercises and you will look and answer me from your direct experience.

2. The two most important ingredients in this process are your wish to see what is true and your willingness to look deeply at questions, give wholehearted engagement to experiments/exercises presented to you, and report your experience here with 100% honesty.

3. Please read the following documents from LU *carefully* and let me know or ask questions if you have any reservations or doubts regarding them:


http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2

And:

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041


4. For the process to be focused and fruitful, I like to make an agreement that both guide and client (i.e you and me if we do this together) respond on this thread every day, and in the case of special circumstances where we cannot, still touch space here on the thread to say so, the day before or on the day. In the same spirit, I work with people who have the motivation and availability to make this process a primary priority in their life for the duration of the cooperation. If any of this does not fit your life rhythm, style or preferences, please let me know and another guide will work with you.

5. This process is not about uncovering or resolving/getting help with shadow material. That might happen indirectly, but the process is focused ONLY on recognizing that there is no separate self in control of things. Knowing that, are you still motivated for this process?

Warmly,
Elad

[Truthfull]

Hi Elad, thank you for responding and taking the time to make your points. I agree to all 5 points and will now (Today) read the documents you have shared. I will post back here when I hade read and reflected on them. I'm quietly excided and nervous about the journey ahead. It will be good to have someone brining we back HERE at regular intervals.

Take Care
Denis

[Truthfull]

Hi Elad, I have read both posts and have no questions. Like stated, something is not right and that has niggled away for most of my life. I have a thorn in my paw and need help removing it. I know I'm the thorn.

Denis

[Truthfull]

Elad, what part of the world are you in. I'm in Ireland. Itching to get going......!

[Truthfull]

Hi Elad, are we going to do this ?

[Elad]

Hi Elad, are we going to do this ?

Hi Denis, good you sent me an email. For some reason I had not hit the subscription to this thread or something went wrong with tech. Either way my sincere apologies and feel free to send an email again should something like this happen again, all though most probably it won't. Okay let's start:


Looking only into direct experience do you find a separate self/Denis anywhere? If yes, what is it?

Here's to a liberating investigation!
Elad

[Truthfull]

Looking at direct experience their is silence observing things, a body, blinking, the label Denis. Their is thoughts about a silent looking. But the silence has nothing to say about anything. It just looks or is. It cant see itself apart from itself. The mind says it knows itself as itself but does not split off to see. I could say its more like Denising takes place via, thoughts, emotions, body movement apart from others.

[Truthfull]

so when I look I don't find a separate self/entity. Their are just thoughts thinking that are watched by the silence.

[Elad]

"so when I look I don't find a separate self/entity. "

Got it.

Now please look:

Do you control movement?

Do you control thought?

No analyzing, only look and report what is seen.

[Truthfull]

I don't control movement. It just happens. Mind may comment after movement has begun.
When it comes to thought, I don't control thought. No.

[Elad]

I don't control movement. It just happens. Mind may comment after movement has begun.
When it comes to thought, I don't control thought. No.

Do you control attention or sensations or choices?

Make sure not to answer from belief or past experience, look freshly with every question and report what is seen.

[Truthfull]

Attention just goes where it wants or is called. I don't control sensations or choices. Its all happening automatically. Thought can make the choice to put attention on sensations. But this feels like a magic show of thought saying look what I can do.
When I look for myself, their is just silence. silence does not control attention, sensations or choices.

[Elad]

Attention just goes where it wants or is called. I don't control sensations or choices. Its all happening automatically. Thought can make the choice to put attention on sensations. But this feels like a magic show of thought saying look what I can do.
When I look for myself, their is just silence. silence does not control attention, sensations or choices.

Right.

This what you call "silence":

Is it separate from anything?

Is there any reason to call it "a self" or "me" rather then just "itself"/life?

Language devides the world in subjects, objects and verbs/actions. But does this what you call silence fit into any of that or is it outside description?

[Elad]

Actually also:

Look directly at thought. Can a thought choose or do anything? Can a thought put attention somewhere?

Or is that just other thoughts that say that?