Looking for others on this path

[KarenM]

Also, wanted to share this with someone, and thought to you, as no one else would understand, but it might trigger you and sound like "thinking" so giving you the option to not read beyond this point so you don't waste your time.

Last night there was this moment when I was sleeping, but something started to pull me out of sleep, but dreaming was also happening, and in this dreaming, my Apple Watch vibrated to indicate a message. I checked the watch, and the word "LOOK!" was printed there. Suddenly I was pulled from sleep, like that message jarred me awake. I checked the time and it was exactly 1:30 am. There was a sensation of buzzing, excitement, energy. Something seems to be changing as more attention is given to the experiences of each moment.

[Anastacia42]

Great.

Now try this:

Palm Flipping Exercise

1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.

2. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.

Watch like a hawk.

Don't go to thoughts – examine your direct experience.

Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:

How is the movement controlled?

Does a thought control it?

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

How is the decision made to turn the hand over?

Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

Who or what ​ chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

Loving,

[KarenM]

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

Sorry for the late response, worked all day today with a long commute.


There is no separate individual or seemingly anything knowable in control. No thought there that says "move your hand". No sense of what decided to move the hand when it did, or when to stop. Moving the hand just happens. Movement period is just happening. The left is chosen because the right is occupied holding a cell phone. No intentionality there, just chance.

Your instruction seems to have resulted in the hand moving experiment, but even that can't guarantee that it wouldn't have happened on its own.

[Anastacia42]

Good.

How does it FEEL to see this?

Loving,

[Anastacia42]

About that 1:30 am experience. I have no idea. Some people have all kinds of stories. I guess just enjoy it.

[KarenM]

How does it FEEL to see this?

With the word "FEEL", you mean physical sensations knowable through the senses. None of this is noted. i.e. it doesn't feel like anything, it's neutral.

If the word "FEEL" is used to describe a feeling associated with seeing there is no one here, then it is grief, loneliness, and sadness.

These feelings might manifest in the sensorium as crushing, constriction, coldness, but these sensations aren't really felt in the hand exercise. Just emptiness is noted. Sorry. :(

[Anastacia42]

What will it take to get you to ignore your thinking & stories and go to Direct Experience?

This is the only pointer Ilona gave me when I was guided here. i practiced this for about 3 months. I call it:

ButtChair

Please LOOK for any place where your butt ends & the chair begins.

Is there any clear dividing line between them? Or only the Sensation with no clear division?


It is simple direct & nonverbal. Just LOOK.

Then write what is true.

Loving,
oving,

[KarenM]

Hi Stacy,

Maybe it will just take patience? I'm telling you the truth when I say there were really no "feelings" noted in moving the palm. Stories and Thoughts have been part of my life for 47 years, perhaps it won't happen overnight that they vanish. But now it's clear they are not "me".

That's cool that you worked with Ilona. She seems intense. In the descriptions of her work with students in the Gatecrashers book, many of them seemed to have an emotional response to this process, so maybe mine is not so abnormal.

Is there any clear dividing line between them? Or only the Sensation with no clear division?

It is obvious now - there is no clear division between butt and the object upon which my body sits, the only thing there is the compression/pressure sensation and warmth or cool, but only perceivable by the body, the character of the object itself can't be known, only my experience of it can be known. In fact, with eyes closed, there might not even be a chair or bed or car seat there at all, as the direct experience involves the sensations of the body alone and does not actually involve the seat. It seems what can be experienced is separate from that which is outside my perspective. Now every time I sit, I notice this.

Thanks,
Karen

[Anastacia42]

Hi,

Not patience. It takes LOOKING. In fact, impatience can be helpful for some people. It keeps you looking.

Good. So, we'll use ButtChair every day for a while. I did that alone for 3 or 4 months.

Please continue to post daily even if it feels repetitive.

Much love,

[KarenM]

Stacy,

Ok, will keep looking.

I'll be out of town tomorrow without my computer so may not be able to post.

Are you familiar with Rupert Spira?

Thanks,
Karen

[Anastacia42]

Okay & yes.

[KarenM]

Stacy,

As it is now understood that nothing outside my physical body can be know directly, but only through sensation and perception, and therefore the illusion of the outer world is seen, how does one similarly directly see the illusion of time? Are there exercises for that?

Best,
Karen

[Anastacia42]

Okay, good. But how does it FEEL to see this? These are still thoughts you are posting.

And yes, here:

Time Exercise

There is a general assumption that there is linear time that started (if started at all) somewhere very far in the past and advances to the distant future. The present moment (now) is considered to be a very small fragment of time, or an event that is moving forward on a linear line, coming from the past and advancing to the future.

But is there an experience of the ’now’ moving along the line of time? Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next? Is there any actual or direct experience of one event following another?

How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?

Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began?

How long does the ‘now’ last?

Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?

When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?

What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?

So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?

Loving,

[KarenM]

So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?

There is no actual experience of time. No point when now begins or ends, no sense of how long now lasts. Now never begins and never ends. Just continuous awareness but cannot pinpoint the now. There is evidence of the passing of time but it isn't directly experienced. Sensation is experienced only in the now but as soon as its described, it's gone. I ask again "what do I feel?" The sensation is there, pressure, warmth, discomfort, pulsating, but as soon as it's noted that moment is a memory, a thought, not time.

It has also become more apparent that thoughts come from nowhere and go nowhere. Directly asking where a thought comes from does not show the self that controls them. All that is there is the awareness of the flowing of thoughts. The separate self is now so much more clearly just a concept.

It has helped me in managing the stories I have told myself, the triggers I once experienced, I'm now able to realize in my annoyance I'm defending a self that isn't even real. Why would I do that? Easier to just let go and let life unfold. The irritable self is a made up belief. Not sure if this process has had that effect on you.

Thank you,
Karen

[Anastacia42]

Yes, pretty similar here.

I'm curious. Why do you refuse to quote one question at a time with the ansee4 under each question?

Thank you