Companion wanted

[Alless]

Hello Hannes

I just had the idea of speaking out the thoughts and recording them on my cell phone

I love your innovation here Hannes !!

In the gap I am purely in the DE, which is then immediately overlaid by the compulsion to think and the thoughts.

Yes !! You are seeing what happens very clearly is seems to me. The gap can seem to be very elusive and yet it is there.

Throughout the day, whenever you can, keep watching thoughts and you might be surprised how the gap can seem to open up as you relax into the LOOKING.

At first we tend to have to put a lot of effort in because this is such a new way of watching the thoughts. However as we take a step back as it were, and just look at the thoughts passing by, things can slow down as you relax into this watching.

As the gap becomes more and more evident we find that we are not paying attention only to the gap but also that in which the thoughts arise. If you notice this starting to happen rest there as much as is possible !!

So keep watching for the gap - with gentle curiosity - every chance you get !

Here is a another way to observe thought. Sit quietly for about 30 minutes and notice the arising thoughts. Just let them appear as they appear. Try your best to COMPLETELY ignore what they are saying and just notice how they appear, without you doing anything at all.

Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?



Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?



Where are they coming from and going to?



Can you predict your next thought?



Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?



Can you choose not to have painful or negative thoughts?



Is it possible to control any thoughts?



Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?



Look carefully when doing this exercise and do it several times if necessary. Please answer each question individually.

And be patient with yourself Hannes. This LOOKING business can be challenging. This is going well !

With love


Alan

[Alless]

Hello Hannes

Haven't heard for a few days so just checking that all is OK for you

With love


Alan

[Hannes]

Hello dear Alan,

Haven't heard for a few days so just checking that all is OK for you.

Please excuse my late reply. The environment at work this week has been very hectic and full of issues. I have found it very difficult to address these issues because the outside world has taken them very seriously and I can no longer really share this drama, probably due to self exploration. If I am again unable to reply within 2 days, I will let you know in time. Over the last 2 days, I have dealt with the exercise several times.

Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?

I have done nothing. It happens automatically.

Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?

Beforehand, I thought it would be possible. Then I tried it and had to admit to myself that it wasn't possible.

Where are they coming from and going to?

Thoughts seem to come out of nowhere and are suddenly there. Maybe that's why you read the comparison between clouds and thoughts on the one hand and the sky on the other, which corresponds to the perceiving consciousness.

Can you predict your next thought?

There is at least a high probability that when I talk to my brother about soccer, for example, that the thoughts that follow will also go in this direction. It's not guaranteed and it's not clear exactly what the content of the next thought will be.

Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?

If I set the series of thoughts with the intention that they should only be pleasant thoughts, an unpleasant thought automatically arises, which I then immediately try to exclude. So no. My mind is not that disciplined.

Can you choose not to have painful or negative thoughts?

I can't choose that directly. However, when I'm in a good mood, which is mainly due to good external circumstances, the probability of negative thoughts decreases. Is that then a choice in a remote sense?

Is it possible to control any thoughts?

I can give my thoughts an approximate direction and I can perceive the content of my thoughts more consciously. I can't control them.

Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

The moment I decide which thought I want to prevent from appearing, it has already appeared. So no.


Now I have thought and experimented so much about thoughts that the question arose: What is a thought?
My answer is: A thought is a substitute for DE and reflects the meaning I have given to a specific DE. Is there anything else to add?

With love,
Hannes

[Alless]

Lovely to see your post Hannes

Please excuse my late reply. The environment at work this week has been very hectic and full of issues. I have found it very difficult to address these issues because the outside world has taken them very seriously and I can no longer really share this drama, probably due to self exploration.

Yes, we can find things can get a bit challenging when we start to discern the illusion. We find that over time things settle and this distortion does not unsettle us to the same degree. Let compassion come for all that is happening.

If I am again unable to reply within 2 days, I will let you know in time.

Wonderful. I appreciate that very much. That will let me know you are still there !! And keeping the momentum up as best you can helps a great deal.

It happens automatically. .........Thoughts seem to come out of nowhere and are suddenly there......The moment I decide which thought I want to prevent from appearing, it has already appeared. So no.

What you say in these responses to observing thought is all true.

My mind is not that disciplined.

And even if we can be more disciplined (and there are ways where this seems to be possible) disciplining the mind can yield some satisfaction however even then there is no absolute control of thoughts. It certainly doesn't get to the root of suffering which is the belief that a "me" exists.

Now I have thought and experimented so much about thoughts that the question arose: What is a thought?
My answer is: A thought is a substitute for DE and reflects the meaning I have given to a specific DE. Is there anything else to add?

And the meaning you give ..... is it true?


Or is it just another thought that we believe?


Here is another way to consider thought.

"I" Labeling Experience

This exercise examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation i.e. is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example:

I am sitting on a chair,
I am hearing a clock ticking,
I am looking at a computer screen,
I am feeling hungry.

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example:

Sitting on a chair,
typing,
breathing,
blinking,
hearing the clock.

(Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?



2. What is here without labels?



3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?



4. Did you notice any differences in the body?



5. Is there any discernible affect in experience when the label "I" is added?



Go to Direct Experience for the answers. not to thinking.


With love


Alan

[Hannes]

Hello Alan,

In the following, I will abbreviate the egocentricity of the experience with "Part 1" and the DE with "Part 2":

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

Part 2 feels truer to me because the self-centeredness of each direct experience has added an additional unpleasant physical experience.

2. What is here without labels?

Without labels, my perception remains relaxed. I become an observer instead of being the center of attention.

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

Labels don‘t affect the experiences. They try to describe them.

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

I had to stop the first part of the exercise of labeling all my experiences with the word "I" several times. In 10 minutes, the word "I" appears so often that the self-centeredness led to a really unpleasant feeling of pressure in my head and a slight headache. That's really interesting.

5. Is there any discernible affect in experience when the label "I" is added?

There is the physical experience and that I seem to be at the center of all experience.


With love,
Hannes

[Alless]

Hello Hannes,


Without labels, my perception remains relaxed. I become an observer instead of being the center of attention.
Now Hannes please look at your experience right this moment.
Can you actually find this that you call an observer?


Where exactly is it and what its are its characteristics?

Labels don‘t affect the experiences. They try to describe them.

Yes. And they can only TRY to describe experience at best

In 10 minutes, the word "I" appears so often that the self-centeredness led to a really unpleasant feeling of pressure in my head and a slight headache. That's really interesting.

Yes it is indeed interesting. The "I / me" thought - when believed to be true - cannot exist without contraction, efforting, finiteness, limitation and the like. Because this belief is opposing the natural flow of life even in the most subtle ways is always is using energy.

There is the physical experience and that I seem to be at the center of all experience.

When you LOOK at an "object" what makes it appear to be an object that is physical?



If you hadn't learned what it was some time on the past, would you actually know it was physical?




We are going to take this a step further and look at our way of speaking in day to day conversations
In your day to day life, when you can, just notice how often "I" and "me" is used both by yourself and others.

What do you notice about how often in happens?


What emphasis does “I, me and mine” have in conversation?



How does it make you FEEL?



Also during the day in conversation with others consciously try to drop using the word "I" and "me" Do not make it obvious that you are doing this. Simply re-phrase things from time to time as part of your conversation.
For example instead of "I'm going to cook dinner" a rephrase could be "Time to cook dinner"
Or instead of "I think ......." one could say "It seems ......" or "The thought comes that ..."
You'll find your own way but do avoid drawing attention by making it clunky or by trying to do it all the time!!
What can you report of that experience?



Did anything much change on the "outside"?



Or on the "inside"?



Did the way life functioned change at all when "I" was not depended upon?



With love


Alan

[Hannes]

Hello Alan,

Can you actually find this that you call an observer? Where exactly is it and what its are its characteristics?

On the one hand, there is no observer and on the other hand, perception is directly linked to the idea that there is a perceiver. The difference is so far only intellectually tangible.

When you LOOK at an "object" what makes it appear to be an object that is physical?

Experience in handling what we see turns it into an object. After touching it, for example, knowledge of the material and weight of the object is created. These are stored as memories and automatically recalled in future situations without questioning them.

It is comparable to the sun. At school, pupils are taught that the earth revolves around the sun. However, when I go out on the terrace several times a day, I interpret it the other way round because I cannot perceive the movement of the earth.

If you hadn't learned what it was some time on the past, would you actually know it was physical?

Definitely not.


Exercise: Look at our way of speaking in day to day conversations and notice how often "I" and "me" is used both by yourself and others.

What do you notice about how often in happens?

It is estimated that 95% of spoken sentences contain the words "I" and "me". In my previous sentences, it was not easy for me to do without the words.

What emphasis does “I, me and mine” have in conversation?

Dübeltet are used to demarcate someone or something. They support the idea of separation between people and things because there also appear to be different places of perception and perspectives from which perception expands.

How does it make you FEEL?

Being more aware of this perspective doesn't feel good because this perspective seems to exist on the principle of "me or the other". Everything is in conflict and competition with each other. How is harmony supposed to spread without spending a lot of energy on it?


Exercise: Try to drop using the word "I" and "me" during the day in conversation with others consciously.

What can you report of that experience?

A lot of mindfulness is required for this exercise. A real challenge that often led to frustration. One helpful habit was to simply rephrase sentences in my mind afterwards.

Did anything much change on the "outside"? Or on the "inside"?

When the world no longer revolves around me so much because I am not constantly referring to it, I feel more relaxation or tension when it is the other way around. This relaxation is also perceptible on the outside, because without a direct address to a specific person, no guilt can arise or be shared.

Did the way life functioned change at all when "I" was not depended upon?

The "I" is like an escalation that seems to add drama to every experience. Without using "I", "me" and "mine" sometimes felt like it allowed an uninterrupted insight into the flow of life. Everything flows and everything is in the right place. However, these were only brief, profound moments.

With love,
Hannes

[Alless]

Hello Hannes

The "I" is like an escalation that seems to add drama to every experience. Without using "I", "me" and "mine" sometimes felt like it allowed an uninterrupted insight into the flow of life. Everything flows and everything is in the right place. However, these were only brief, profound moments.

Noticing these brief moments of flow is so good. Also noticing when the "I" that we think we are invokes suffering is vital. The SEEING of this again and again deepens the truth of what is actually happening in our experience

Here is another exercise to investigate choice and control and making decisions and whether there is an entity, a "me" that actually chooses

Drink Exercise

The aim of the following exercise is to discover whether the function of choice / decision can really be found or confirmed in actual experience. The idea of making ‘choices‘ is a very clear example of a function that we wrongly identify as the basis of our identity.

Here's what’s needed - a chair, a table and two different drinks. Any two drinks you like are okay for this: coffee, tea, milk, water, juices, smoothies, beer, wine, etc.

Preparation - Place the two drinks side by side on the table in front of you, sit comfortably on the chair and mentally label them as drink A and drink B.

Experiment - Finding the function of choice

Sit for a few moments, take a few relaxed breaths and let the dust settle. When you feel ready:

1. Look at drink A and at drink B. Think about their respective qualities, the things you like about them, compare and weigh the pros and cons of each. See if a preference is manifesting for one or the other.

2. Count to 5.

3. Choose one of the drinks. Pick it up and take a sip.

Questions:

Remember that we’re looking for some kind of function, a something, an ‘I’ which is doing the ‘choosing’.

In step 1 when thinking about their respective qualities, did you ‘choose’ the qualities? Or did they kind of appear by themselves? If some preferences manifested, did you ‘choose’ these preferences? Or did they just pop up by themselves?



In step 2 when you counted to 5, if the preferences took the back seat while the numbers took the front seat, did you ‘choose’ this sequence of event? Did you ‘choose’ to shut down the preferences to give way to the counting?



Did you directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Have you seen this function in action?



In step 3 where you made a choice, did you actually witness or directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Did anything arise that announced, ‘I am the chooser’? If so, what does this function look like?



Sometimes we describe this sense of choosing as a ‘feeling’: It feels like ‘I’ did the 'choosing’. But the question is, can a feeling ‘choose’? Is it in the nature of a feeling to 'choose’?



Is there anything in particular that is realized after having done this exercise?



With love


Alan

[Alless]

And Hannes something else to ponder

On the one hand, there is no observer and on the other hand, perception is directly linked to the idea that there is a perceiver. The difference is so far only intellectually tangible.

When you say "On the one hand, there is no observer" .......
How do you know that .....do you SEE that DIRECTLY?


If the answer to that question is that you SEE DIRECTLY that there is no observer, what do you mean by "only intellectually tangible?



With love


Alan

[Hannes]

Hi Alan,

Experiment - Finding the function of choice

In step 1 when thinking about their respective qualities, did you ‘choose’ the qualities? Or did they kind of appear by themselves? If some preferences manifested, did you ‘choose’ these preferences? Or did they just pop up by themselves?

The qualities and preferences appeared and were simply there. There was no way to choose them.

In step 2 when you counted to 5, if the preferences took the back seat while the numbers took the front seat, did you ‘choose’ this sequence of event? Did you ‘choose’ to shut down the preferences to give way to the counting?

When counting comes to the front seat, preferences fade into the background, or rather: they disappear without my intervention. I can neither decide for it nor against it. It is identical to the exercise with the properties of the cup. It's nice to bring this realization back to mind.

Did you directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Have you seen this function in action?

Not really. Choosing is something that just happens. Then of course I ask myself whether choosing is still the right term.

In step 3 where you made a choice, did you actually witness or directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Did anything arise that announced, ‘I am the chooser’? If so, what does this function look like?

The process of choosing happens as a thought.

Sometimes we describe this sense of choosing as a ‘feeling’: It feels like ‘I’ did the 'choosing’. But the question is, can a feeling ‘choose’? Is it in the nature of a feeling to 'choose’?

A feeling can not chose. I thought about feelings as a feedback mechanism for the „decision maker“ to fell the right decision. But the seem to confirm what was given before so that I have the impression of the choice.

Is there anything in particular that is realized after having done this exercise?

I would never make a choice for something that is bad for me. How do I know what is good for me? It's based on emotions and preferences. Neither of which I have actually chosen. So everything else is not really a choice either. That's a real aha moment.

What else do we use to wrongly identify as the basis of our identity?

- choosing
- feelings
- the perception of separated bodies
- thoughts

On the one hand, there is no observer and on the other hand, perception is directly linked to the idea that there is a perceiver. The difference is so far only intellectually tangible.

When you say "On the one hand, there is no observer" .......
How do you know that .....do you SEE that DIRECTLY?

I look and always end up with the person behind my eyes. But I don't find myself there either. But where else am I supposed to be? There is nothing there. That's why I'm convinced that there is no observer.

If the answer to that question is that you SEE DIRECTLY that there is no observer, what do you mean by "only intellectually tangible?

When the search for the observer is over, I am again so deeply in the role of the perceiver on the outside that the non-existence of the observer seems to be a purely intellectual experience.


Much love,
Hannes

[Hannes]

There is something to add in the list about what we use to wrongly identify as the basis of our identity. Instead of feelings I would like to take emotions, because emotions - especially emotions that are considered negative - trigger the impulse to react. Every reaction seems to be necessary to protect the image of myself.

[Alless]

So lovely to hear about the clear seeing that is happening for you Hannes

The qualities and preferences appeared and were simply there. There was no way to choose them.

Wonderful!

Choosing is something that just happens. Then of course I ask myself whether choosing is still the right term.

I understand what you mean. So often it is hard to find words which totally resonate with what we are trying to describe

The process of choosing happens as a thought.

Or is thought just a "mental verbalizing" of the choice that has already been made?

It is identical to the exercise with the properties of the cup. It's nice to bring this realization back to mind.

Great !

A feeling can not chose.

So true !

That's why I'm convinced that there is no observer.

So are you saying as you LOOK DIRECTLY the truth is that there is no observer? LOOK again to find an answer - do not go from memory

How do I know what is good for me? It's based on emotions and preferences. Neither of which I have actually chosen.
This matter of what is good for you.

Feel deeply into this ........ is it what might be described as inner wisdom, an inner guide, a felt knowing which is even "deeper" than emotions and preferences which "chooses" what is good for you?

So everything else is not really a choice either. That's a real aha moment.

Beautiful !

When the search for the observer is over, I am again so deeply in the role of the perceiver on the outside that the non-existence of the observer seems to be a purely intellectual experience.

OK, try this Hannes

As you look "inside" as you would for an observer find a thought. Now go "outside" and choose an object to look at - say a tree or building

Now move your attention between the thought on the "inside" and the object on the "outside" Move your attention backwards and forwards between the two a few times.
Can you find any sort of dividing line between "inside" and "outside"?



Can you find where the "outside" starts and the "inside" ends?




I see your last comment about emotions Hannes. I'll add something about that in the next post



With love


Alan

[Hannes]

Hello Alan,

The process of choosing happens as a thought.

Or is thought just a "mental verbalizing" of the choice that has already been made?

You are right. It is more a mental verbalizing of the choice that has already been made.

That's why I'm convinced that there is no observer.

So are you saying as you LOOK DIRECTLY the truth is that there is no observer? LOOK again to find an answer - do not go from memory

When I follow the trail to the observer or the starting point of consciousness, I end up in my head. Somewhere behind the eyes. When I look behind my eyes, "I" suddenly seem to be in front of my eyes. Today I was outside with the dog and stood in front of a beautiful tree. I could imagine being the tree. I could feel the roots and the wind blowing through my branches and twigs. However, I was no longer in my body.

Feel deeply into this ........ is it what might be described as inner wisdom, an inner guide, a felt knowing which is even "deeper" than emotions and preferences which "chooses" what is good for you?

Intellectually, I know that there is a kind of inner guidance. I have never listened to it all my life, but did what "had" to be done. So the exercise took me a few days to really experience the inner guidance through DE. And you are right. The inner guidance is much deeper than emotions and preferences and chooses what is good for me. Is it part of Liberation Unleashed to surrender to this guidance?


Exercise: move your attention between the thought on the "inside" and the object on the "outside":

Can you find any sort of dividing line between "inside" and "outside"?

Both the thought that appears as an image in my mind's eye and the image after I open my eyes are in front of me. A dividing line would be that the image in my head is always more blurred than the image when I open my eyes.

However, if I have the thought "I am normal", it appears in a dark frame in my head. I would take the dividing line as the opening of the eyes. It would be the same when I look inwards and feel tiredness.

Can you find where the "outside" starts and the "inside" ends?

I can put my thoughts anywhere on the outside and also bring the outside into the inside. I can expand the inside and also myself on the outside. So I could imagine being in Dubai, even though I've never been there. Then I would be on the outside, even though I am on the inside. I'm having a hard time with the last 2 questions in the last few days.

With love,
Hannes

[Alless]

Hello Hannes

However, I was no longer in my body.

Were you in front of or behind the eyes when this was experienced?



When you were no longer in your body, was your body in you?



Was there a shape or size or edge to you when you were no longer in your body?



How would you describe the you that you were when you were not in your body?



Is that you - the you that you were when not in your body - still what you are in this very moment?



In this very moment can it SEEM like you are in your body?

The inner guidance is much deeper than emotions and preferences and chooses what is good for me.

Wonderful ! This inner guidance is so discounted and overlooked because we believe thoughts which "bury" it.

Is it part of Liberation Unleashed to surrender to this guidance?

Very much so. This inner guidance can have many labels - presence, light, knowing, intuition. In spiritual traditions it is often labeled and taught that it is something outside of us rather than it being the very life that animates our bodies (and all we experience) giving expression to itself.
The truth is that it is veiled by thought. And the root of what veils it is the belief that there is a "me." Realizing that there is no such entity as a "me" is what LU is all about. With that realization, the truth of what we really are (which cannot be described) starts to show itself and be revealed.

A dividing line would be that the image in my head is always more blurred than the image when I open my eyes.

OK. One image is in your imagination and the other is seen with physical eyes. However the SEEING of them both is the one SEEING is it not?
With eyes open or closed are there two SEEINGS - one that sees the image in imagination and one that see the image with physical eyes?



While there is no doubt that the many "things" that are seen are distinct, is there a boundary between them in the experience of SEEING?




Or is there just SEEING?




Remember the tree exercise earlier where we looked at the gap between the trees in the picture? There was actually no gap just a change of color that the mind interpreted as a gap.
In PURE SEEING WITHOUT INTERPRETATION can anything other than color be seen?

Then I would be on the outside, even though I am on the inside.

Believing there is an inside and an outside arises when we believe we are the body
Are you your body?

I'm having a hard time with the last 2 questions in the last few days.

I understand. Due to DEEP conditioning the mind rebels fiercely against direct experience here.
You're doing well. Be patient dear Hannes - it can take time.


With love


Alan

[Hannes]

Hello Alan,

However, I was no longer in my body.

Were you in front of or behind the eyes when this was experienced?

I was no longer in the body but in the tree. As a tree, I could see the path in front of me, even though a tree has no eyes. I also didn't have the feeling that I was looking out of my eyes.

When you were no longer in your body, was your body in you?

The body just stood there. I could see it. So I interpreted what I saw as "my" body. Was it then inside me when it was in my consciousness?

Was there a shape or size or edge to you when you were no longer in your body?

I imposed the size and the edges of the tree as limits because the shape gave them to me. I couldn't include the empty space around the tree.

How would you describe the you that you were when you were not in your body?

Pure formless consciousness

Is that you - the you that you were when not in your body - still what you are in this very moment?

It's the same I. When I reflect on my working week, it was very hectic. In this hectic pace, I lack the lightness to experience myself as a consciousness. I identify with my hunger. If I don't get the work done, I don't think I'm hardworking enough. My mother likes to push a feeling of guilt across the table. Then I feel like I'm not enough. If I experienced myself in those moments as pure consciousness in the tree, I wouldn't accept the conclusions.

In this very moment can it SEEM like you are in your body?

Yes :-)

One image is in your imagination and the other is seen with physical eyes. However the SEEING of them both is the one SEEING is it not?

Yes

With eyes open or closed are there two SEEINGS - one that sees the image in imagination and one that sees the image with physical eyes?

No, there is only one seeing.

While there is no doubt that the many "things" that are seen are distinct, is there a boundary between them in the experience of SEEING? Or is there just SEEING?

There is only the interpretation of a border. Otherwise there is only seeing.

In PURE SEEING WITHOUT INTERPRETATION can anything other than color be seen?

No, only color. Thank you for the reminder.

Believing there is an inside and an outside arises when we believe we are the body. Are you your body?

That's right. Outside and inside only exist through identification with the body. When I cut my hair or my nails, I don't feel like I'm less. I know someone who has lost their arm. They don't feel like they are only 7/8 because they are missing 1/8.
The body does things that I didn't choose to do like breathe, repair, let blood flow through the body etc. and I couldn't choose not to.
I as a consciousness have left my body for a few moments and perceived myself as a tree. My essence is not a body.


With love,

Hannes