It's (no)time to wake up into (already) being.

[severian]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I'm not actually sure I understand it beyond the intellectual concept that the personality self I present to the outer world is a rickety house of cards, the cards being various thoughts and beliefs I invoke by habit. I believe the no-self is the awareness that is both the field upon which thoughts arise/fall and the observer of said thoughts.

What are you looking for at LU?
I would like guidance that helps me disidentify with thought. I am looking to bridge the gap between the intellectual knowing and the experiential 'I am' presence.

I feel somewhat alone on this whatever path it is, and I would like to experience some company and community synergy in this.

Overall I'm not trying to hold very specific expectations, I am very new to doing this in a group or community and I'm open to seeing how things flow I guess.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
So I am reading Angelo Dillullo's book, which is great, and watching various videos/podcasts and the solo work is fine, but I do have moments where I want personal guidance and I know I am more diligent if I have practices that are more suited for where I am/who I am.

I also would like more direct pointing out to areas where I have blind spots, I know having someone to reflect back to you can be powerful.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I have tried various forms of meditation, but I'm not really into extended sits. I have evolved my own just 'sitting' which seems similar to the idea of zazen. I much prefer working 'on the ground' and doing my best to observe my experience.
I have dabbled in a bunch of spiritual ideas and schools but I feel aversion to schools with a lot of rules or intricate disciplines. Although I did kind of enjoy tibetan practices. I have tried shamanic practices, have owned crystals, accidentally and somewhat traumatically had a kundalini awakening. I was kind of into magick for a while, tried various energetic practices.
I recently got into the Sedona method which I didn't realize at the time was an offshoot of Nisargaddatta via Lester Levenson, who figured out his own awakening. I really enjoy the simplicity of the practice in addition to how it made me much more aware of my thinking and emotional reactions/beliefs. I don't think I have a tremendous amount of self-inquiry practice but I really enjoy it.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
8

[severian]

I'm not sure if I'm supposed to add to this but today as I was reading Angelo Dillullo's book, specifically the stages section, it really struck a chord when he described (paraphrasing) how freedom isn't possible with a 'self'. It rang something quite deep inside me and I felt that kind of soul surge of energy in my gut for several minutes. It also made driving a bit challenging as I was so distracted by the light of the sun in the clouds.

[atmajnani]

Hi Severian,

My nickname is Atmajnani and I can be your guide if you wish.
Nowadays I might not have availability to reply everyday, but I will do my best to keep the pace.

Would you like to be treated by Severian or another name?

Remember this, the inquiry is based on direct experience (DE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Conceptual and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers. We will do a bunch of exercises that will help you to better understand the nature of thoughts and gradually desidentify with them.

To begin, let's start with the following questions:
Which feelings come up when you read 'There is no inherent separate 'me', there never was, and there never will be'?

Is there something you don't want to happen?

How do you expect it to be like when it becomes clear that there is no 'me'?
How will it feel? What will change and what will stay the same?

Please, copy-paste each question into your reply between the quote brackets (4th button left) and then write your answer below.

Warmly,
Atmajnani

[severian]

Hi Atmajnani,
Sev is fine. Thanks for participating in this!
I will write my answers in the next reply.

Be well
Sev

[severian]

Which feelings come up when you read 'There is no inherent separate 'me', there never was, and there never will be'?

Arrogance, rejection, but also the space created by pondering a paradox is there as well. Confusion.


Is there something you don't want to happen?

I don't want to be abandoned or annihilated. A fear feeling arises associated with a wanting approval, wanting onenness with others. Security.

How do you expect it to be like when it becomes clear that there is no 'me'?
How will it feel? What will change and what will stay the same?

That somehow it will feel like being/existing is effortless, spontaneous.
I expect to notice many things that I had taken for granted, this could be my relationship to many day to day experiences and things. Like a window that was dirty has been cleaned. I feel like I will notice that many notions, thought patterns will feel pointless. I might feel more spontaneous joy and take more pauses to simply be there. I can see that there could be a period of relearning what I am.
'I' will be the same, I assume the outside world and my relationships will still be there but maybe ready for a kind of revisiting or renewal.

[atmajnani]

Hi Sev,

It is alright to feel fear, it's a protective mechanism, a contraction, but whom or what is it protecting?

Before you paste the question in your reply, make sure you press the button 'Quote' above the white box and only then paste the question between the brackets. You can also press the button 'Preview' below the white box to view how it looks like after you send the reply. But then don't forget to press 'Send' after the preview.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference between KNOWING (thoughts) and SEEING (direct experience):

If I ask you what colour is your socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can have a thought about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what colour you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what colour they actually are!
Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by LOOKING.

For the purpose of our dialogue together, it is going to be very important that you are clear about this difference. Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that. We are only interested in LOOKING AT and SEEING what is actually going on in your present moment to moment experience. We are only interested in your direct experience in the moment.

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Note daily activities simply by colour/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought. So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

SEEING a cup, simply SEE the image/colour
SMELLING coffee, simply the SMELL
FEELING the warmth of the coffee cup, simply FEEL the sensation
TASTING the coffee, simply TASTE
HEARING the spoon stirring the coffee, simply HEAR the sound
THOUGHT about drinking the coffee, simply note the thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual/direct experience) and report back how you go.
Try it outside too, amidst nature.

Warmly,
Atmajnani

[severian]

Hi Sev,

It is alright to feel fear, it's a protective mechanism, a contraction, but whom or what is it protecting?

Before you paste the question in your reply, make sure you press the button 'Quote' above the white box and only then paste the question between the brackets. You can also press the button 'Preview' below the white box to view how it looks like after you send the reply. But then don't forget to press 'Send' after the preview.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference between KNOWING (thoughts) and SEEING (direct experience):

If I ask you what colour is your socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can have a thought about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what colour you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what colour they actually are!
Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by LOOKING.

For the purpose of our dialogue together, it is going to be very important that you are clear about this difference. Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that. We are only interested in LOOKING AT and SEEING what is actually going on in your present moment to moment experience. We are only interested in your direct experience in the moment.

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Note daily activities simply by colour/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought. So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

SEEING a cup, simply SEE the image/colour
SMELLING coffee, simply the SMELL
FEELING the warmth of the coffee cup, simply FEEL the sensation
TASTING the coffee, simply TASTE
HEARING the spoon stirring the coffee, simply HEAR the sound
THOUGHT about drinking the coffee, simply note the thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual/direct experience) and report back how you go.
Try it outside too, amidst nature.

Warmly,
Atmajnani

Your explanation between knowing and looking is clear to me. I will apply it to the question and reply soon.

[severian]

Hi Sev,
It is alright to feel fear, it's a protective mechanism, a contraction, but whom or what is it protecting?

Hmm the best I can perceive is that it's a kind of story that is protecting the story of a 'me', but as I was feeling into this, looking inward, there was a hint (?) that in the here and now, a 'me' isn't possible, and I can't really explain it. There was a certain energy to this in my body as I was feeling this non-idea.

I have been taking sensory pauses as you described, I'm trying not to force the sensing but sometimes it feels like I might be, so a work in progress then.

S

[atmajnani]

Hi Severian,

Keep putting your attention in the sensations instead of thoughts and then let me know how it goes.

Meanwhile, here is a videoclip on how to use the quote function:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCbZYSvnTpc&t=1s


Warmly,
Atmajnani

[severian]

Hi Severian,

Keep putting your attention in the sensations instead of thoughts and then let me know how it goes.

Meanwhile, here is a videoclip on how to use the quote function:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCbZYSvnTpc&t=1s


Warmly,
Atmajnani

I used the quote function in that last reply..?

Anyway I don't know how to reply to you about sensations without using words that are thoughts expressed haha. Could you give me an example of what you mean? Like if I'm feeling no 'me' when I feel into the here and now how do I express that to you?

[atmajnani]

Hi Sev,

Yes, you used the quote function correctly, but you copied and pasted all my text instead of just the question.

Could you give me an example of what you mean?

For now just notice the difference when you put your attention in the senses and the mental chat takes the background. Without constant mental labelling, are colours more bright? Sounds more special? Is life experienced in a lighter or renewed way? Do you feel less tension?

Warmly,
Atmajnani

[atmajnani]

Hi Sev,

How are you doing?
Shall we move to a more concrete exercise?

Atma

[severian]

Hi Sev,

How are you doing?
Shall we move to a more concrete exercise?

Atma

Hello! Sorry for the delayed reply, things have been busy, but also I've been 'doing' exercises, especially centered on feeling into that fear around surrender and accepting thoughts for simply being what is happening. I'd love a more concrete exercise!

Take care

[atmajnani]

Hi Sev,

Yes, we tend to live in our heads and it takes practice to center attention in sensations and feelings.
Here it is a more concrete exercise:

Get a sheet of paper and draw a line that divides that sheet in half. Label one half 'self' and the other side 'other'. Sit down and start a timer for 5 minutes. Every time you have a thought make a mark on the sheet. If that thought is about the 'self' put a mark on the 'self' side, if it’s about something else, mark the 'other' side. If a thought about food occurs due to feeling hungry, mark that on the 'self' side. Any thought that refers back to a self should go on the 'self' side (I'm bored, I'm tired, is the door locked (my safety) that video was funny (I was amused), my back hurts, I am frightened) get it?

Let me know how you go and what you notice.

Warmly,
Atmajnani

[severian]

very time you have a thought make a mark on the sheet. If that thought is about the 'self' put a mark on the 'self' side, if it’s about something else, mark the 'other' side. If a thought about food occurs due to feeling hungry, mark that on the 'self' side. Any thought that refers back to a self should go on the 'self' side (I'm bored, I'm tired, is the door locked (my safety) that video was funny (I was amused), my back hurts, I am frightened) get it?

Let me know how you go and what you notice.

Warmly,
Atmajnani

Hi Arman,
I did this a few times and what I noticed if I was eyes open in a coffee shop, 'other' thoughts were still in some way related to myself or from myself. Always reinforcing me as a story in a sense. With eyes closed 'other' thoughts were like the beginning of a story and the next sentence was then relating to me.