Restless searching

[Nikinutter]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
Self is an illusion that we create in our childhood to protect ourselves. It's all the stories we believe, patterns that are deeply ingrained that often dictate our actions and the thoughts and emotions we identify with on a daily basis that keep us believing that we are separate.
When you let go of all of that you realize there is no self.

What are you looking for at LU?
A community of others that understand there is no self and can help me and support me when I get stuck. I don't have this in my life currently, I feel lousy at times. I hope to provide help and support to others as well.
I mostly flow through life enjoying both the negative and positive experiences but where I get stuck is with my partner. When in conflict with him I get stuck in identifying and I don't know how to not. I no longer flow. I question myself all the time and know I don't observe the situation as it really is but can't find my way back to reality in the moment.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Help me see where I'm still delusional as I feel stuck often in the same pattern. There is something I'm not seeing and I can't figure out our on my own. I'm currently working through the 10 fetters as a guide to help me.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I meditate daily and spend time just sitting and being quiet. I've been inquiring into what I'm still identifying with on a daily basis and working on feeling emotions arise and being curious, not reactive. I've read Angelo Duilulo's book and am working through Pernille Damore's awakening curriculum at this time.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
11

[Bluejay]

Hi,

Welcome to the forum. I'd be happy to be your guide if you'd like?

Sorry for the long wait. We've had a large influx of people lately :)

I'm Henri. What would you like me to call you?

If yes, then we can start...

If you haven't already, please read the disclaimer here: https://www.liberationunleashed.com/reg ... isclaimer/

And then have a look at what Liberation Unleashed is not in the FAQ: https://www.liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some guidelines (you may already be familiar with most of this, but just in case):

1. Post at least once every 24 to 48 hours. I'm not strict about this, but I would prefer it if you posted regularly. If you can't, please let me know.

2. Technology can be problematic. I recommend you type your answers in a text editor like MS Word or Google Docs, and then copy and paste them into this thread. This way you avoid losing your answer if there's a technical glitch.

3. When replying to a question, please use the quote function to answer each question individually. Here are instructions on how to use the quote function if it is not already clear: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

And to start, I'd like to know your expectations. You don't have to use direct experience for this. Just share what comes to mind:

1. How will life change when you realize there is no "I"?
2. How will you change?
3. What do you want or expect to be different?
4. What is missing right now that you will have when there is a shift?

Enjoy! :)

[Nikinutter]

Hi Henri, you can call me Nic. Thank you so much for the reply! I'm actually not sure I'm in the right place for what I'm looking for but perhaps you can give me guidance on that?
I've been working the the Awakening Curriculum of Penelope which focuses on the 10 fetters which is where I heard of LU.

So, I have definitely seen through self. Quite a number of years ago I had an awakening and it's only deepened since then. But, I often get very stuck in old patterns and I don't recognize when this happens. I get caught up in my thoughts and identifying with my feelings and emotions too much. For some reason in those times I lose sight of the fact that there is no self and kind of go around in a circle jerk with myself. I think my main problem is I think too much and identify with my thoughts too much when I don't feel settled. What I'm really looking for Is a deeper understanding into what is going on with me during those times.

I would also like to learn how to be a guide at some point. I've met so many wonderful people in my journey that I would love to give back.

Here are your questions that you asked me. I couldn't figure out how to use the quote function. I'm going to have to watch a video before I post next time.

1. How will life change when you realize there is no "I"?
Attachment to people and things drops away because there is a realization that life is an illusion we create through our identification with thoughts.

2. How will you change?
I have changed in the way that I don't react to situations that once would send me into anger or frustration. I go with the flow of life mostly and know what happens happens and cannot be another way.

3. What do you want or expect to be different?
Suffer less or find equanimity in the suffering when it happens

4. What is missing right now that you will have when there is a shift?
I am missing staying present. I often get stuck in thought patterns and emotions.

[Bluejay]

Hi Henri, you can call me Nic. Thank you so much for the reply! I'm actually not sure I'm in the right place for what I'm looking for but perhaps you can give me guidance on that?
I've been working the the Awakening Curriculum of Penelope which focuses on the 10 fetters which is where I heard of LU.

Hello!

At LU we only guide to seeing through inherent self.

This would be fetters 1-3. Pernille does it differently with how she views the fetters.

So, I have definitely seen through self. Quite a number of years ago I had an awakening and it's only deepened since then. But, I often get very stuck in old patterns and I don't recognize when this happens. I get caught up in my thoughts and identifying with my feelings and emotions too much. For some reason in those times I lose sight of the fact that there is no self and kind of go around in a circle jerk with myself.

This sounds like reactivity. In Kevin Schanilec's 10 fetters, it would be fetters 4/5 where you do emotional work and explore what makes you react.

I think my main problem is I think too much and identify with my thoughts too much when I don't feel settled. What I'm really looking for Is a deeper understanding into what is going on with me during those times.

The way I see this: There's something you don't want to feel > you go into thoughts to distract.

It sounds like you already see this, at least to some degree.

I would also like to learn how to be a guide at some point. I've met so many wonderful people in my journey that I would love to give back.

If you want to become a guide, we can explore and see if you're clear on seeing that there's no self, and if so, you can answer final questions and join FB group and become a guide. Does that sound OK?

[Nikinutter]

Hi Henri,

Well I just experienced writing out a post and it being deleted someone how. Lesson learned to save drafts! Apologies for taking so long to get back to you, I did not get an email notice that you responded and only saw your message now when I logged into the gate.

This sounds like reactivity. In Kevin Schanilec's 10 fetters, it would be fetters 4/5 where you do emotional work and explore what makes you react.
I think my main problem is I think

Yes! Definitely some reactivity happening. I am familiar with Kevin's work, his teachings was how I was introduced to Fetter work which had really helped me with clarity.

The way I see this: There's something you don't want to feel > you go into thoughts to distract.

It sounds like you already see this, at least to some degree.

Agreed, I think that is what is happening. I've always had a difficult time staying in the body and feeling what's going on, I tend to want to think my way out. I have a belief that is I understand what's going on the discomfort will do away.

If you want to become a guide, we can explore and see if you're clear on seeing that there's no self, and if so, you can answer final questions and join FB group and become a guide. Does that sound OK?

Sounds good!

[Nikinutter]

Hi Henri,

Well I just experienced writing out a post and it being deleted someone how. Lesson learned to save drafts! Apologies for taking so long to get back to you, I did not get an email notice that you responded and only saw your message now when I logged into the gate.

This sounds like reactivity. In Kevin Schanilec's 10 fetters, it would be fetters 4/5 where you do emotional work and explore what makes you react.
I think my main problem is I think

Yes! Definitely some reactivity happening. I am familiar with Kevin's work, his teachings was how I was introduced to Fetter work which had really helped me with clarity.

The way I see this: There's something you don't want to feel > you go into thoughts to distract.

It sounds like you already see this, at least to some degree.

Agreed, I think that is what is happening. I've always had a difficult time staying in the body and feeling what's going on, I tend to want to think my way out. I have a belief that is I understand what's going on the discomfort will do away.

If you want to become a guide, we can explore and see if you're clear on seeing that there's no self, and if so, you can answer final questions and join FB group and become a guide. Does that sound OK?

Sounds good!

[Nikinutter]

Hi Henri,

Well I just experienced writing out a post and it being deleted someone how. Lesson learned to save drafts! Apologies for taking so long to get back to you, I did not get an email notice that you responded and only saw your message now when I logged into the gate.

This sounds like reactivity. In Kevin Schanilec's 10 fetters, it would be fetters 4/5 where you do emotional work and explore what makes you react.
I think my main problem is I think

Yes! Definitely some reactivity happening. I am familiar with Kevin's work, his teachings was how I was introduced to Fetter work which had really helped me with clarity.

The way I see this: There's something you don't want to feel > you go into thoughts to distract.

It sounds like you already see this, at least to some degree.

Agreed, I think that is what is happening. I've always had a difficult time staying in the body and feeling what's going on, I tend to want to think my way out. I have a belief that is I understand what's going on the discomfort will do away.

If you want to become a guide, we can explore and see if you're clear on seeing that there's no self, and if so, you can answer final questions and join FB group and become a guide. Does that sound OK?

Sounds good!

[Nikinutter]

Hi Henri,

Well I just experienced writing out a post and it being deleted someone how. Lesson learned to save drafts! Apologies for taking so long to get back to you, I did not get an email notice that you responded and only saw your message now when I logged into the gate.

This sounds like reactivity. In Kevin Schanilec's 10 fetters, it would be fetters 4/5 where you do emotional work and explore what makes you react.
I think my main problem is I think

Yes! Definitely some reactivity happening. I am familiar with Kevin's work, his teachings was how I was introduced to Fetter work which had really helped me with clarity.

The way I see this: There's something you don't want to feel > you go into thoughts to distract.

It sounds like you already see this, at least to some degree.

Agreed, I think that is what is happening. I've always had a difficult time staying in the body and feeling what's going on, I tend to want to think my way out. I have a belief that is I understand what's going on the discomfort will do away.

If you want to become a guide, we can explore and see if you're clear on seeing that there's no self, and if so, you can answer final questions and join FB group and become a guide. Does that sound OK?

Sounds good!

[Nikinutter]

Hi Henri,

Well I just experienced writing out a post and it being deleted someone how. Lesson learned to save drafts! Apologies for taking so long to get back to you, I did not get an email notice that you responded and only saw your message now when I logged into the gate.

This sounds like reactivity. In Kevin Schanilec's 10 fetters, it would be fetters 4/5 where you do emotional work and explore what makes you react.
I think my main problem is I think

Yes! Definitely some reactivity happening. I am familiar with Kevin's work, his teachings was how I was introduced to Fetter work which had really helped me with clarity.

The way I see this: There's something you don't want to feel > you go into thoughts to distract.

It sounds like you already see this, at least to some degree.

Agreed, I think that is what is happening. I've always had a difficult time staying in the body and feeling what's going on, I tend to want to think my way out. I have a belief that is I understand what's going on the discomfort will do away.

If you want to become a guide, we can explore and see if you're clear on seeing that there's no self, and if so, you can answer final questions and join FB group and become a guide. Does that sound OK?

Sounds good!

[Nikinutter]

Hi Henri,

Well I just experienced writing out a post and it being deleted someone how. Lesson learned to save drafts! Apologies for taking so long to get back to you, I did not get an email notice that you responded and only saw your message now when I logged into the gate.

This sounds like reactivity. In Kevin Schanilec's 10 fetters, it would be fetters 4/5 where you do emotional work and explore what makes you react.
I think my main problem is I think

Yes! Definitely some reactivity happening. I am familiar with Kevin's work, his teachings was how I was introduced to Fetter work which had really helped me with clarity.

The way I see this: There's something you don't want to feel > you go into thoughts to distract.

It sounds like you already see this, at least to some degree.

Agreed, I think that is what is happening. I've always had a difficult time staying in the body and feeling what's going on, I tend to want to think my way out. I have a belief that is I understand what's going on the discomfort will do away.

If you want to become a guide, we can explore and see if you're clear on seeing that there's no self, and if so, you can answer final questions and join FB group and become a guide. Does that sound OK?

Sounds good!

[Nikinutter]

Hi Henri,

Well I just experienced writing out a post and it being deleted someone how. Lesson learned to save drafts! Apologies for taking so long to get back to you, I did not get an email notice that you responded and only saw your message now when I logged into the gate.

This sounds like reactivity. In Kevin Schanilec's 10 fetters, it would be fetters 4/5 where you do emotional work and explore what makes you react.
I think my main problem is I think

Yes! Definitely some reactivity happening. I am familiar with Kevin's work, his teachings was how I was introduced to Fetter work which had really helped me with clarity.

The way I see this: There's something you don't want to feel > you go into thoughts to distract.

It sounds like you already see this, at least to some degree.

Agreed, I think that is what is happening. I've always had a difficult time staying in the body and feeling what's going on, I tend to want to think my way out. I have a belief that is I understand what's going on the discomfort will do away.

If you want to become a guide, we can explore and see if you're clear on seeing that there's no self, and if so, you can answer final questions and join FB group and become a guide. Does that sound OK?

Sounds good!

[Nikinutter]

Hi Henri,

Well I just experienced writing out a post and it being deleted someone how. Lesson learned to save drafts! Apologies for taking so long to get back to you, I did not get an email notice that you responded and only saw your message now when I logged into the gate.

This sounds like reactivity. In Kevin Schanilec's 10 fetters, it would be fetters 4/5 where you do emotional work and explore what makes you react.
I think my main problem is I think

Yes! Definitely some reactivity happening. I am familiar with Kevin's work, his teachings was how I was introduced to Fetter work which had really helped me with clarity.

The way I see this: There's something you don't want to feel > you go into thoughts to distract.

It sounds like you already see this, at least to some degree.

Agreed, I think that is what is happening. I've always had a difficult time staying in the body and feeling what's going on, I tend to want to think my way out. I have a belief that is I understand what's going on the discomfort will do away.

If you want to become a guide, we can explore and see if you're clear on seeing that there's no self, and if so, you can answer final questions and join FB group and become a guide. Does that sound OK?

Sounds good!

[Bluejay]

Well I just experienced writing out a post and it being deleted someone how. Lesson learned to save drafts! Apologies for taking so long to get back to you, I did not get an email notice that you responded and only saw your message now when I logged into the gate.

No problem!

There's a wrench icon at the bottom next to "Post Reply" where you can check if you're subscribed to the topic.

Also, you posted the same post 8 times just now. Not a problem, but in the future if the site is slow, just hit the submit button once, and definitely copy your draft so it doesn't disappear! :)

I have a belief that is I understand what's going on the discomfort will do away.

It would be great if it worked like that... 😎

Sounds good!

I'm going to assume you're clear on direct experience vs thought and skip a few pointers. If it seems there's trouble, we can always return to them.

Here is a thought exercise. Sit quietly for about 30 minutes and notice the arising thoughts. Just let them appear.

Where are they coming from and going to?

Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?

Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?

Can you predict the next thought?

Can you select from a range of thoughts to only have pleasant thoughts?

Do you control where attention goes?

Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?

Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?

Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

It may seem like thoughts are ordered logically, but look carefully. Is there an organized sequence? Or is it just another thought that says 'these thoughts are in sequence' or 'they take content from previous thoughts' or 'one thought follows another thought'?

Let me know what you find :)

[Nikinutter]

I am having technical issues today. Neither of my replies to you posted so I will start over.
Thank you for the information regarding not hitting submit to more than once and turning on notifications. Noted next time!

As to your questions:

Where are they coming from and going to?

Thoughts seem to appear in experience just like any other one of the five senses do. There is no control to them they're is just an awareness.

Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?

If I'm focusing my attention on a particular thought I can think about it, but in the thinking the next thought is still random.

Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?

I do not have control over thought or the next thought that arises.

Can you predict the next thought?

No they are random with no sense of organization.

Can you select from a range of thoughts to only have pleasant thoughts?

No, a thought is neither pleasant or unpleasant. They are what they are, but if I identify with the thought in someway I can create the illusion of them being pleasant.

Do you control where attention goes?

Not with when the next thought happens or what it is but, I can choose to give attention to the thought or let it pass away.

Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?

Yes, if I don't identify with them. They are just thoughts like seeing is just seeing. Noticing thoughts is not a problem, it's the meaning or belief that is put to them that may be and can create a feeling of fear or negativity.

Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?

If I'm consciously thinking about a subject, like answering these questions, I can choose the thoughts I write down. Other than that thoughts are random and have no real cohesion.

Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

No it's not, control over this is an illusion. The only thing that can be prevented is the identification with the thought or the meaning that is placed on them.

It may seem like thoughts are ordered logically, but look carefully. Is there an organized sequence? Or is it just another thought that says 'these thoughts are in sequence' or 'they take content from previous thoughts' or 'one thought follows another thought'?

Thinking about any thought is just that, another thought. There is no sequence to them. Even when playing the game "when you hear this word what is your first thought?" that first thought is not controlled like we may think. It's through identification with our lived experiences that puts that word in our head and gives a seemingly logical sequence to the identification with the word game.

I'll be interested in your insights, until then.

Take care,

Nic

[Bluejay]

Great answers!

I am having technical issues today. Neither of my replies to you posted so I will start over.
Thank you for the information regarding not hitting submit to more than once and turning on notifications. Noted next time!

The forum has been slow at times, so may not just be you!

Not with when the next thought happens or what it is but, I can choose to give attention to the thought or let it pass away.

Can you predict when you give attention to a thought and when not?

And when you close your eyes, notice attention moving about, can you predict it before it moves next?

Yes, if I don't identify with them. They are just thoughts like seeing is just seeing. Noticing thoughts is not a problem, it's the meaning or belief that is put to them that may be and can create a feeling of fear or negativity.

Is it you choosing not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?

In other words, how does the decision not to identify happen? What is the sequence of events?