Is there anybody there?

[Harry]

Yes - the something more is an experience that seems to arise from the combination of sensations and thoughts at the time. There is the bare or primary form of thoughts and sensations in the body and then a secondary form (which isn't separate) which has a more, or appears as a more emotional tone.

The emotional tone then, would you say, is a kind of mixture of thoughts and sensations / thoughts and sensations that are not clearly seen?

I don't feel I can make the distinction between practical and psychological somehow......It's all just what is happening, whether things 'feel', due to emotional tone, difficult or otherwise......

Do you perhaps relate more to the words emotional suffering vs physical pain?

[BraveBear]

Hello Harry,

The emotional tone then, would you say, is a kind of mixture of thoughts and sensations / thoughts and sensations that are not clearly seen?

Yes, emotional tone or quality of experience is a mixture of thoughts and sensations.These are 'raw data' of experience and it's possible to see just this / rest in just this. It's not that it isn't clearly seen, but that there can be the identification of certain combinations of thoughts / sensations in particular ways - difficult / pleasant / happy / sad etc.

Do you perhaps relate more to the words emotional suffering vs physical pain?

Well, I'm fortunate that at this point in time I don't experience much physical pain. But whether physical or emotional, the basic experience of sensations and thoughts / activity of mind is the same. Nothing else to be found.

Thankyou,
BB

[Harry]

Hi BB,

It's not that it isn't clearly seen, but that there can be the identification of certain combinations of thoughts / sensations in particular ways - difficult / pleasant / happy / sad etc.

By identification, do you also mean another thought? Or something else? If it’s something else, see if you can describe it from direct (or raw, as you said) experience.

Nothing else to be found.

Yes. As merely sensations and thoughts, are these experiences sad/happy, pleasant/unpleasant, etc.? Or are they simply what they are? Just neutral?

[BraveBear]

Hello Harry

By identification, do you also mean another thought? Or something else? If it’s something else, see if you can describe it from direct (or raw, as you said) experience

Yes, identification is what the mind can do with the raw data of experience, which can be useful. You could call that thought and it isn't anything other than that.

As merely sensations and thoughts, are these experiences sad/happy, pleasant/unpleasant, etc.? Or are they simply what they are? Just neutral?

Simply sensations and thoughts are neutral and this is seen, especially in meditation. The combination of thoughts and sensations has an effect and this is what might be identified as sad, happy, hungry, content etc

Thankyou,
Sraddha

[Harry]

Hello Sraddha,

Yes, identification is what the mind can do with the raw data of experience, which can be useful. You could call that thought and it isn't anything other than that.

So, in that case, does identification exist as an actual experience, or only as the content of thought?

(by content, I mean what the thought ‘says’)

Of course, the thought is itself an actual experience, but what about its content?

Simply sensations and thoughts are neutral and this is seen, especially in meditation. The combination of thoughts and sensations has an effect

On what?

and this is what might be identified as sad, happy, hungry, content etc

And that identification would just be another thought after the fact, right?

Can we ever experience two thoughts at the same time?


Best wishes to you,
Harry

[BraveBear]

Hello Harry

So, in that case, does identification exist as an actual experience, or only as the content of thought?

The thought is what is actual experience. Identification (or interpretation) is content.

Of course, the thought is itself an actual experience, but what about its content?

Yes, having the thought is actual experience. Identification or interpretation is the content of thought, not actual, direct experience

On what?

Can't find a what.

And that identification would just be another thought after the fact, right?

If the fact is the actual experience of sensations and thought, then yes.

Can we ever experience two thoughts at the same time?

No, there is just thought

What are your thoughts (!) on 'spiritual' bypassing?

Many Thanks,
BB

[Harry]

Hi BB,

All your answers are spot on. How does it feel to distinguish the content of thought from actual experience?

What are your thoughts (!) on 'spiritual' bypassing?

Well, here we focus on looking at the facts of our experience. It takes no time at all to look (and see), it’s an instantaneous and always available option!

But, we may not remain with this seeing for very long… it may initially be a glimpse that we keep on returning to…

Furthermore, living the implications of this seeing is a life’s work. In my opinion, there’s always endless potential for daily activities (thinking, acting, relating, etc.) to better express insight. There’s no such thing as a perfect person.

I hope that helps; let me know if you have any questions, comments or concerns you’d like to share!

[BraveBear]

Hello Harry,

How does it feel to distinguish the content of thought from actual experience?

When distinguishing the content of thought from actual experience things generally feel much more straightforward and simple. For whatever reason tho, sometimes the distinction is lost and then things feel more emotionally complex and equanimity is not so easy to maintain.

I hope that helps; let me know if you have any questions, comments or concerns you’d like to share!

I relate to what you say about glimpses we keep returning to. And about living the implications being a lifetime's work, with endless potential for expressing insight. That's why I wanted to do this inquiry. I really want to find ways of supporting / encouraging those glimpses to be more sustained. I want to live a life which expresses insight of the truth of things.

Thankyou 🙏

[Harry]

Hello again BB,

When distinguishing the content of thought from actual experience things generally feel much more straightforward and simple. For whatever reason tho, sometimes the distinction is lost and then things feel more emotionally complex and equanimity is not so easy to maintain.

That’s great to hear - yes, things do feel much simpler!
Totally understandable about losing the distinction. See if you can keep on looking when that happens, and let me know how things go for the next little while. As long as you know how to look (something like: is this thought content, or a real experience?) then you should be able to return to clarity fairly quickly.

I say ‘return to clarity’ as a way of speaking, but in your experience, is there an actual entity that goes in and out of clarity/seeing? Or is there just the clarity?

I relate to what you say about glimpses we keep returning to. And about living the implications being a lifetime's work, with endless potential for expressing insight. That's why I wanted to do this inquiry. I really want to find ways of supporting / encouraging those glimpses to be more sustained. I want to live a life which expresses insight of the truth of things.

Beautifully said! I share your love for a life established and also lived in truth, too.

Just to check…

In the moment of glimpsing, is there a separate self to be found anywhere (have a look in this very moment)?

Has there ever been a separate self? Is there anyone or anything that could go in and out of glimpsing?


You’re very welcome!

[BraveBear]

Hello Harry,

Thankyou for your response.

I say ‘return to clarity’ as a way of speaking, but in your experience, is there an actual entity that goes in and out of clarity/seeing? Or is there just the clarity?

No, there isn't an entity that goes in and out of clarity. It's more like a shift of focus or attention from actual experience to content, which results in a more emotional interpretation of what is happening at any given point, especially if content veers towards the more negative / difficult. This is the distinction I talked about in the last post. Today it's felt pretty straightforward to see this happening and not get too lost in content.

I share your love for a life established and also lived in truth, too.

😊

In the moment of glimpsing, is there a separate self to be found anywhere (have a look in this very moment)?

No, no separate self to be found anywhere in this moment.

Has there ever been a separate self? Is there anyone or anything that could go in and out of glimpsing?

No never been one, just an assumption. There isn't anyone or any thing that could go in and out of glimpsing / seeing, yet going in and out (of clarity / distinction) does happen - see above and last post.

Thankyou 🙏

[Harry]

Hi BraveBear,

Thanks for your answers!

So by the sounds of it, you can already see that there isn’t and never was a seperate self?

It’s just that you are looking for ways to stabilise and integrate this seeing?

If you feel like it, I can give you our final questions which establish your seeing, and then you can explore the ‘aftercare’ options at LU?

I tend to guide that initial stage of looking and seeing through beliefs, interpretations etc.

Have a great day!

[BraveBear]

Hello Harry

So by the sounds of it, you can already see that there isn’t and never was a seperate self?

Well, a separate self can't be found, no - just actual (direct) experience happening. No reason to believe this hasn't always been the case.

It’s just that you are looking for ways to stabilise and integrate this seeing?

Yes. This has been seen at various times by various means. And as we talked about previously, finding ways to live more and more fully from this seeing. I thought this process would help that.

If you feel like it, I can give you our final questions which establish your seeing, and then you can explore the ‘aftercare’ options at LU?

If you feel that would be appropriate at this time, then I would be OK to have a go at the final questions.

I appreciate what you said about the guiding that you do. Thankyou for offering what you have to me, I hope it didn't feel like it wasn't a good use of your time. I'm not sure where I'm at with all of this and have been glad to explore a bit with you.

Thankyou again,
BB 🙏

[Harry]

Hi BB,

Well, a separate self can't be found, no - just actual (direct) experience happening. No reason to believe this hasn't always been the case.

How does it feel to see this?

I'm not sure where I'm at with all of this and have been glad to explore a bit with you.

I’m also glad to have explored with you too! You’re very welcome and it certainly wasn’t/isn’t a waste of my time. I first came to LU in a similar position to you actually, having had glimpses and experiences, but wanting to go deeper.

Would you be able to elaborate a bit more about being unsure where you’re at? What is it that is incomplete?

[BraveBear]

Hello Harry,

How does it feel to see this?

It feels OK. In previous times when first looking / seeing it was quite overwhelming, but not any more. Don't see how it could be any other way, no other way has been found to date.

Would you be able to elaborate a bit more about being unsure where you’re at? What is it that is incomplete?

There isn't anything that is incomplete in terms of actual experience. In terms of the process of looking / seeing there is just a wish to be as thorough as possible, so that life is really lived from what is true rather than assumed.

Thankyou 🙏

[Harry]

Hi BB,

Thanks for your answers! I’m going to go ahead with the standard final questions…


1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me', 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.