Who i am

[Dos]

For the purpose of our dialogue together, it is going to be very important that you are clear about this difference. Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that. We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment to moment experience. We are only interested in your direct experience in the moment.

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

Yes, I understand the difference between mental representations and reality.

[Dos]

Sorry, I still haven't figured out how to use this, I hope you'll understand 😅.

[Elad]

Sorry, I still haven't figured out how to use this, I hope you'll understand 😅.

As long as you are committed and answer all questions we will be fine. You can stop using the quote function. You can just answer normal and use quotation marks ("..") when you quote me/my questions.

Now tell me, in direct experience, what does "I" refer to? Not asking for thoughts. Asking you to look here and now and tell me. Can you find anything it refers to or is it just a label abd thought?

And do this exercise:

[Elad]

“I” labelling

Get a sheet of paper and draw a line that divides that sheet in half. Label one half 'self' and the other side 'other'. Sit down and start a timer for 5 minutes. Every time you have a thought make a mark on the sheet. If that thought is about the self put a mark on the self side, if it’s about something else, mark the other side. If a thought about food occurs due to feeling hungry, mark that on the self side. Any thought that refers back to a self should go on the self side. (I'm bored, I'm tired, is the door locked (my safety) that video was funny (I was amused), my back hurts, I am frightened) get it?
Let me know how you go and what you notice.

[Dos]

Can I write tomorrow?

[Elad]

Can I write tomorrow?

Yes, our commitment to each other is just at least one touch space per day 🙏

[Dos]

I see that "I" is just a label reinforced by emotions. But even without thoughts, this "I" continues to exist. I can assume that the label "I" is so deeply ingrained that merely understanding that it's a thought is not enough. Regarding the task: it turned out amusing because all thoughts were labeled as "I, me, mine," with not a single thought about anything else. I think that says something

[Elad]

I see that "I" is just a label reinforced by emotions. But even without thoughts, this "I" continues to exist. I can assume that the label "I" is so deeply ingrained that merely understanding that it's a thought is not enough. Regarding the task: it turned out amusing because all thoughts were labeled as "I, me, mine," with not a single thought about anything else. I think that says something

Good looking regarding the task. That is the kind of attention in the moment that will wake you up. And of course "understanding" is not enough.

However: "even without thoughts the I continues to exist". Are you sure? What tells you that in direct experience? You need to look deeper. Look deeply and answer.

Also do the exercise coming in next message:

[Elad]

Observing thoughts

Here is a thought exercise. Sit quietly for about 30 minutes and notice the arising thoughts. Just let them appear as they appear. Try your best to COMPLETELY ignore what they are saying and just notice how they appear without you doing anything at all.


Where are they coming from and going to?

Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?

Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?

Can you predict your next thought?

Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?

Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?

Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?

Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence? Or is that just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that ‘one thought follows another thought’?

[Dos]

I looked, and I realized that no, I don't control thoughts, but I can understand what they will be about shortly before they appear.

1. They arise from emptiness and disappear into emptiness.
2. I think not, but again, shortly before a thought appears, I can understand what it will be about. Thoughts are just a projection of feelings in verbal form.
3. I suppose not.
4. In a sense, yes and no (I mentioned this).
5. No, because the very thought of "I want only good thoughts" is already a thought that appears without my control.
6. Again, no.
7. It's the same here too. Who will choose which thoughts are convenient for them and which are not? After all, the very thought that I want something is already a thought that wants something.
Answering the last question: I suppose no, thoughts just follow one after another, and the thought that "they have a logical order" is just another thought.

[Elad]

I looked, and I realized that no, I don't control thoughts, but I can understand what they will be about shortly before they appear.

1. They arise from emptiness and disappear into emptiness.
2. I think not, but again, shortly before a thought appears, I can understand what it will be about. Thoughts are just a projection of feelings in verbal form.
3. I suppose not.
4. In a sense, yes and no (I mentioned this).
5. No, because the very thought of "I want only good thoughts" is already a thought that appears without my control.
6. Again, no.
7. It's the same here too. Who will choose which thoughts are convenient for them and which are not? After all, the very thought that I want something is already a thought that wants something.
Answering the last question: I suppose no, thoughts just follow one after another, and the thought that "they have a logical order" is just another thought.

Good clean attending mostly re exercise. That's the way.

However you did not answer:

"However: "even without thoughts the I continues to exist". Are you sure? What tells you that in direct experience? You need to look deeper. Look deeply and answer."

Asking you again to answer all questions.

And re "Thoughts are just a projection of feelings in verbal form." Are you sure? Always? Can you see this in direct experience?

Beliefs confused with direct experience are the biggest hindrance in this.

[Dos]

1. Ive realized one thing today: the concept of "self" is essentially a thought. When we experience this "self" in a state without thoughts, we merely feel the ingrained belief that "I" exists. While it may not be enlightenment, this understanding has pushed me a bit further.
2. No, thoughts are not necessarily a projection of feelings; rather, thoughts can independently evoke those feelings. This happens because, over time, certain words we think about become associated with our experiences. I believe that specific words can trigger specific emotions. For instance, if you've been told all your life that love is a particular feeling towards someone, now every time you think of the word "love," you experience the sensation attached to it.

[Elad]

1. Ive realized one thing today: the concept of "self" is essentially a thought. When we experience this "self" in a state without thoughts, we merely feel the ingrained belief that "I" exists. While it may not be enlightenment, this understanding has pushed me a bit further.
2. No, thoughts are not necessarily a projection of feelings; rather, thoughts can independently evoke those feelings. This happens because, over time, certain words we think about become associated with our experiences. I believe that specific words can trigger specific emotions. For instance, if you've been told all your life that love is a particular feeling towards someone, now every time you think of the word "love," you experience the sensation attached to it.

Okay this is good progress. Now I recommend you to lay low on trying to explain how things work intellectually. Just stay with the questions I give you. It will lead you most directly to clear seeing. And this is all about direct seeing rather then theorizing. Good theories can be useful many places but in this context they are a distraction.

Okay, now do the exercise below:

[Elad]

Word “I”

Let’s look at thought and the content of thought a little more,
Write the word "I" on a piece of paper. Look at the word, is that YOU?
Now say the word “I” aloud. Is that sound YOU?
Is the combination of any of these, the word, the sound, the thought YOU?” Is the thought, "I exist" you?
Is the thought "I" you?


Spoon exercise


For this exercise the questions are really just there for you to consider as you do the exercise, I do not need detailed answers to each one, just some reflections on (1) how the exercise went for you, what did you see, (2) if you have any questions or need any clarification.

The following exercise is designed to let you ‘feel’ the difference between actual experience and imagined experience.
Close your eyes and imagine that you are holding a spoon. Imagine the spoons form, its size, its weight, its temperature. Look and feel at ​the imaginary spoon for a while.

Then open your eyes ... is there a spoon here, in real life? So how did you see that there is no spoon? What happened to the spoon? Did it disappear or did it never exist?

Notice that there was no boom and no bright flashes of light when the imaginary spoon was no longer imagined. Remember this, the shift to seeing through the illusion of a separate self is not going to be any more than this, it is just a dropping of a belief – the belief is the glue that holds the illusion together.

Now go and get a spoon from the kitchen and hold it in the same way that you imagined it.
Feel the spoon’s form, its size, its weight, its temperature. Close your eyes and feel the spoon for a while.
Now open your eyes ... is there a spoon here, in real life? Are the image of the spoon and the experience of the spoon the same? How does imagining and experiencing the same thing differ?

Now close your eyes again and bring your attention to the image of “me”, the separate individual entity. Spend some time exploring this, and then answer the following question: Speak the word “I” silently; be aware of any sensations or responses to this word. Are any of these reactions in your body or mind by themselves YOU? Is it an image or is it an actual entity?

[Dos]

Can you wait one more day? I need to think this over