who knows?

[Alless]

I’m going to take a day or two to answer.

That feels good here Annette

I’ve cancelled a lot of stuff. Having quiet weekend.

Enjoy !!


Looking forward to hearing just when you're ready


With love


Alan

[Annette33]

Dear Alan
How tricky are the roots of the delusion of I. Lots of ideas views stories of what this life is isn’t can’t be.

A keeping safe of some unreal life!
Unconscious urges habits desires obscuring this here now actual aliveness.

Manifesting this weekend with four days of no structure or work or meet ups as…. TV. Lots of TV stories and also tidying up. Not honouring the heart desire for freedom, love, creative responsiveness, joy.

There’s Big roots to the i drama. Years of views beliefs conditioning that there’s an i at the centre.

So pervasive this I wiring this ghost in the machine. Creating thought content scenarios of I can’t do this etc

And here breathing is happening, a sigh, small smile, neck muscles relaxing.

You ask
What controls what's happening in one's life?

Presence interacting with the current environment. Very often filtered through the lens of i habit thought content. But it doesn’t have to be like that. Nothing is fixed and the ghost in the machine can be dropped, seen for what it is. A catch up service occasionally handy, often obscuring actual experience.

Decisions seem to arise first as images. Thought follows. Like an old fashioned reporter with a notebook.
Past choices influence decisions mostly.
Like now I’ve an image of the kitchen and aware of tummy gurgles and the thought follows
‘I’m hungry, I’ll get up and have breakfast’

I’ll post this in case it disappears and continue later. Thank you Alan.

[Alless]

Thank you Annette.

Love what you're reporting

I'll look for Part II

And I will just say this

Thought follows.

Yes !! So, so true :)-

With love


Alan

[Annette33]

Hello Alan

Catching up with your recent questions:

Just sit with the irritation and see what happens. Is there anything to report from sitting with this?

When felt into is this irritation actually a feeling of "I don't want this" - a subtle form of resistance?

Quite a lot of anger and irritation in short bursts. Haven’t managed to sit with it at the time. As yet.
Soon after there’s a straightforward apology if it was out loud as happened a couple of times or a sort of wince and then a forgetting if it was a bad tempered thought towards someone in my way in the supermarket for instance.
This is not usual. Usual would be not noticing or not having irritation content thoughts, or a mood of withdrawal or guilt if expressed. Instead it doesn’t seem to matter so much. There’s something lighter here.

Irritation like that is a resistance to what is actually happening. Wanting ‘my way’. So it’s the old i mind habit but more subtle. There is no my way to have. Quite funny in retrospect.

Thank you.
Annette part 2.

Part 3 to follow.

[Annette33]

Part 3
what would you I say to someone about:

What controls what's happening in one's life?

‘No one controls what’s happening in the sense of a me or I or you or them.
That’s hard to comprehend if considered only mentally/as a concept.
Yet can be seen by looking into direct experience, that there is no experiencer, only experiencing happening / flowing.

Things that happen are happening due to an infinite blend of conditions coming together including one’s individual habits and personality.

You can test this out by saying these words to yourself right now: ‘I’m going to get up now and make a cuppa.’ Did it happen? Did that i thought create the action of making a cuppa right now?

Have you ever thought ‘I must get fit/see so and so/ change job but it hasn’t happened? Why not if a you is in charge?
Who is in charge?’

i thoughts shift and adapt all the time to catch up with what’s already happened. Yes thinking happens in the present. Thought content however is always about the past, even when thinking about the present or future.’

Actually I’ve no idea if I would say something this direct!

Warm wishes and a big smile
Annette

[Alless]

Hello Annette,

First of all my apologies for the late reply. For some reason I did not get notification that you had responded and when I thought I better check the thread directly - there was your post.

Rather than commenting on specifics that you wrote let me tell you what I'm feeling / seeing in your posts. Your responses are very clear and come from directly looking. I'm feeling a freedom coming through in what you write. A real settling in the truth that there is no 'me"

Love the big smile that you signed off with.

I really am feeling that this could well be a good time for the "final questions." Whilst each of us individually are the only ones who truly know if we have seen clearly that there is no "me", these questions are a really helpful way of making sure that I as a guide have not missed anything important in the discovery. Also they can help you identify areas that you would like to explore further. If something comes up as you are working through them that raises a question then we'll dive into that.

But before I send them I'd like to check if there is anything in particular that you would like to explore or is there any doubt at all that there no such entity as an "I"?




With love


AlN

[Annette33]

Hello Alan

Thank you so much for your response. Glad to hear from you.

But before I send them I'd like to check if there is anything in particular that you would like to explore or is there any doubt at all that there no such entity as an "I"?

Well one thing is
thoughts with i as the subject are still carrying on most of the days, accompanying / labelling the selfing type images and actions.

And also a remembering noticed in thought content just a few times a day that there is no I. It doesn’t precipitate a shift to DE. Are those remembering experiences a mental exercise then, a co-opting of what has been seen through? Would DE usually be more to the fore after this seeing into no I?

Thank you
Annette

[Alless]

Annette,

I can identity with what you write here.

One of the things that we sometimes get caught in here is expectations. We can expect a shift to be a discernible event. And yes, that does happen. However for most of us that is not the case. Rather it is more an incremental shift rather than a particular discernible event.

The aim of this discovery at LU is about discovering for oneself through direct experience that there is no such separate entity as a "me." It is about a RECOGNITION or REALIZATION of that truth that we are seeking to settle in our hearts. Having this recognition in no way implies we will never fall back into the illusion ever again. But rather that when we do we can catch ourselves and proclaim to ourselves (quietly of course !!) "Oh it's just happened again !!" And as we now live in that realization the "pull" of a "me" continues to wane. We become more and more aware of the ways the illusion can hypnotize us.

You may have heard of the 10 fetters model. These 10 fetters are 10 assumptions that underpin the human experience. Seeing no self is the first of these and in that seeing the second fetter of doubt and the third fetter which is called Rites and Rituals are typically broken or at least weakened. According to this model the "me" still is experienced in subtler and subtler ways and its not until the 10th fetter falls that the complete referencing to an assumed me is completely washed away.

Hopefully this will give a context for what is happening for you Annette.


Among the many things you posted here are a few of the things that you have reported which point to this recognition

I note that you are seeing a change in reactivity.

Usual would be not noticing or not having irritation content thoughts, or a mood of withdrawal or guilt if expressed. Instead it doesn’t seem to matter so much. There’s something lighter here.

About decisions you say

‘No one controls what’s happening in the sense of a me or I or you or them.

and a few days ago you said

I looked and laughed! The I/me is an idea not a direct experience. There is no I in DE. And I wanting this and that is ridiculous as how can a concept actually want anything at all.

I'm certainly not trying to convince you here but pointing to what can be sometimes discounted in your own experience.

Are these reports that you made earlier still true for you right now?




Sometimes this seeing of no self is misperceived as having arrived some place special. What has actually happened is that there is the seeing of a false belief that has kept us bound to suffering. This seeing through this assumption, this belief, this false identity, this lie that we believed is only ever a start to deeper and deeper seeing. Such a mystery and so, so beautiful.

Does any of this not resonate with your experience Annette? Please call it out if it does




Here is a video where Ilona speaks to this as well
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJQcD588g2w

Can infinity ever have an end!!!

Please read this next statement and feel right into it as you read

There is no such separate entity called an "I / me" There never was and never will be in any shape size or form. It only "exists" as an imaginary idea

Tell me what you FEEL about that statement




With love


Alan

[Annette33]

Hello Alan

The context you wrote is sooooooo helpful. That’s totally the case.

There’s a definite spark and draw to finding out more about the ten fetters model. does anyone guide this?

Are these reports that you made earlier still true for you right now?

Yes absolutely true and even more so. Eg on crowded bus yesterday and the person on the seat by me was taking some of ‘my’ seat and talking non stop on mobile. I had nowhere to move away to to avoid the contact. So the thought content was reacting about that. Then aha that’s just thought came the thought and I settled into the DE and the sense of no separation and it was simply pressure being experienced on the left side on the body and there arose a huge joy, an enjoyment in this bubble of humanity, all of us on the bus, moving through the city landscape.

This is an example of remembering.

There is no such separate entity called an "I / me" There never was and never will be in any shape size or form. It only "exists" as an imaginary idea

This simply makes me smile and feel a sort of swelling of the chest and heart area. A gentle joy of recognition.

I will watch the video.
I seem to be ready for the final questions?

Love Annette

[Alless]

That's beautiful Annette.

There’s a definite spark and draw to finding out more about the ten fetters model. does anyone guide this?

Yes there is. Kevin Schanilec or Pernille Damore and others. There are a number of possibilities we can point to when we are finishing the thread.

A gentle joy of recognition

And deeper and deeper it goes 😊😊😊



So yes Annette it seems that the questions are calling !!

This also help other guides check whether something has been missed. Report from your Actual Experience in this very moment when you reply to each question. Do not reply from memory or a previous experience.

No need to rush, come from the heart and not your head, take your time and have some fun !!

Here are the questions.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?



2) Share in your own words what the illusion of separate self is and how it shows up in experience. Then give some experiential examples of how life changed for you after seeing through this illusion.



3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days in particular.



4) Can you remember any specific moment where there was an epiphany? ....a before and after seeing the actuality of no self? Was there a point when you ‘got it’?



5) From your own experience of no self please talk about
decision, & give examples from experience.



intention, & give examples from experience.



free will, & give examples from experience.



choice and control? & give examples from experience.



What makes things happen? How does it work?



What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.



6) Anything to add?




With love


Alan

[Annette33]

Hello Alan

So here goes

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No absolutely not (big smile). Such joy whenever that is made conscious like now.
Sitting here now the senses are experiencing things without solid boundaries. Everything is simply here. Shapes and colours and sounds of voices next door and taste from lunch, and a quietness encompassing all that.

2) Share in your own words what the illusion of separate self is and how it shows up in experience. Then give some experiential examples of how life changed for you after seeing through this illusion

It’s a simple yet deeply rooted mental habit of short hand referencing this being in order to navigate day to day life. And it’s become a belief and diversion of attention from actual experience. It only shows up in thought content.
When this was realised i laughted a lot. It seemed ridiculous that a repetitive thought could be so bought into.
Since then I don’t take thought’s so seriously. When I get absorbed in a train of thought about the future or past it can be spotted and dropped straightaway in favour of direct experience.
So there’s less mental suffering and less fear too about will this or that happen. More let’s see what happens.
Like going to meet some new people last Friday. There wasn’t much speculation about what that would be like. And when there and we were saying our preferences about when where etc to meet up next time, I pointed out the options for us all rather than sneakily steering things to what ‘I’ wanted.😅

3.How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days in particular.

Well lighter is the key word. And like a slow dawning, a gradual noticing of small things that are different.
There were sooooo many I based thoughts before. crowding out DE.
Also I’m more generous! buying lunch for everyone on Friday when in the past there would have been the thought ‘they are all better off than me’ and the suggestion to split the bill’
And I’m not agonising over decisions. Less anxiety. So much doesn’t seem important that did before. Even like, the boiler isn’t working and there’s a distinct lack of poor me, I’m cold. And telling everyone about it!

End of part 1

[Annette33]

Hello again

So part 2

4) Can you remember any specific moment where there was an epiphany? ....a before and after seeing the actuality of no self? Was there a point when you ‘got it’?

Yes it was a few weeks ago while writing to reflect on this material that it suddenly became clear that I was just a thought and how could a thought want this or that or anything at all. And the mind went very still for a few hours. Almost no words. And a great joy. And laughing and dancing around the room and not sleeping and looking at the stars. And that gradually subsided. And the word that came to describe the experience was liberation. With a clearer understanding of that word’s meaning, as if freshly discovered.

I’ll come back to question 5/6.

Thank you Alan. You are kindness itself.
Annette

[Alless]

Just when you are ready Annette 😊

[Annette33]

Hello!

5) From your own experience of no self please talk about
decision, & give examples from experience.

Decisions seem to arise spontaneously presumably as a result of infinite conditions coming together but in DE quite mysteriously.
Apart from its noticeable that images arise before a so called decision. For example an image of the crisps in their packet (currently being eaten) before the catch up thought ‘I think I’ll have some crisps’. So no non existent I was involved in the decision.
Yesterday the thought came I’ll buy a choc bar for someone and the brand I was going to buy, but I bought a totally different choc treat. The I thought had no influence on that decision.



intention, & give examples from experience.

Yesterday the thought came ‘I’m going to call my sister.’ Even telling my mum I’m going to do that. And it didn’t happen. So I thoughts don’t make things happen as intended. Not sure what else to write about that.



free will, & give examples from experience.

I’m not familiar with what free will is supposed to mean. I’ve never thought about it. There’s no I to have it. In DE things just happen. No one is doing or willing them. There is volition though. Hmmmm.


choice and control? & give examples from experience.

When choosing there are eg two images mentally flicked between until one is settled on. For example putting fresh bed sheets on this morning. The green or the pink? Images of both and then a settling on the pink. Then reaching for the duvet cover and the thought comes ‘I don’t want that one’ and ‘that one’ goes on anyway. The i has no control.



What makes things happen? How does it work?

In DE it’s mysterious! Things are just happening. Constantly. Interactions between things. Nothing is making anything happen. Not sure what else to write about that.


What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

There is no separate one to be responsible for anything. However there is naturally arising responsiveness to whatever is happening in this present field of awareness.
Eg it’s cold just now. The boiler isn’t working. I’ve called to book a repair on Friday, that was the responsibility part. ‘My’ response has been to wear a hat and extra layers. I’m not complaining about it or blaming anyone. It’s just happened that a fault has arisen.



6) Anything to add?
Not sure how to respond from DE to some of these questions!

Warm wishes
Annette

[Alless]

Thank you Annette. Beautiful.

I've asked other guides to check if anything has been missed in our exploration.

I'll be right back to you as soon as I have their responses.

With love


Alan