Exploration

[Misasc90]

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No, just a label applied to things, but no 'actual' me.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

An idea/image/hologram in the mind's eye which we label as 'me' or 'I' and then take ourselves to be it.

This idea/image is believed to be an entity operating in the world, when really it's just a thought.

It starts when we label something that is not myself as 'myself', then we take ourselves to be that thing. Or we label a process such as walking with "I am walking" or seeing as "I am seeing". This creates a false sense of separation and that we are a 'thing' which unifies all experience. Really 'I' is a label with no reference point until we label something with it, then we take ourselves to be it.


3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

I feel lighter, thinned out, less solid. I see Michael as an imaginary image a lot more often, but still forget. I see the fabrication and it's ability to seemingly solidify and grasp attention. I know when I analyse this fabrication, it is not pointing to a real thing. Things seem more like an unfolding and whimsical. More in touch with raw experience. It's also clear thar 'I' and 'me' are fabrications which create a false sense of ownership to everything.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

Seeing 'Michael' as a mere idea.

Seeing 'I' as a notion I impose on the Michael idea.

5) Describe decision,
intention,
free will,
choice and control.

What makes things happen? How does it work? Give examples from experience.

Things just unfold. But there is a subtle image of a Michael who does, intends, chooses and controls. But this is only a concept. A concept can't do, intend, choose or control. The concept just appears and disappears. Sometimes it has a strong sense of doership and other times less so, but either way it's a concept or language "I'm doing", "I chose". These words just spring up based on conditioning.


What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

Nothing.

6) Anything to add?

I just want to know if my answers above ring true and align with your experience of this?

[Misasc90]

Resent with quotes as forgot in previous post.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No, just a label applied to things, but no 'actual' me.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

An idea/image/hologram in the mind's eye which we label as 'me' or 'I' and then take ourselves to be it.

This idea/image is believed to be an entity operating in the world, when really it's just a thought.

It starts when we label something that is not myself as 'myself', then we take ourselves to be that thing. Or we label a process such as walking with "I am walking" or seeing as "I am seeing". This creates a false sense of separation and that we are a 'thing' which unifies all experience. Really 'I' is a label with no reference point until we label something with it, then we take ourselves to be it.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

I feel lighter, thinned out, less solid. I see Michael as an imaginary image a lot more often, but still forget. I see the fabrication and it's ability to seemingly solidify and grasp attention. I know when I analyse this fabrication, it is not pointing to a real thing. Things seem more like an unfolding and whimsical. More in touch with raw experience. It's also clear thar 'I' and 'me' are fabrications which create a false sense of ownership to everything.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

Seeing 'Michael' as a mere idea.

Seeing 'I' as a notion I impose on the Michael idea.

5) Describe decision,
intention,
free will,
choice and control

What makes things happen? How does it work? Give examples from experience.

Things just unfold. But there is a subtle image of a Michael who does, intends, chooses and controls. But this is only a concept. A concept can't do, intend, choose or control. The concept just appears and disappears. Sometimes it has a strong sense of doership and other times less so, but either way it's a concept or language "I'm doing", "I chose". These words just spring up based on conditioning.

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

Nothing.

6) Anything to add?

I just want to know if my answers above ring true and align with your experience of this?

[warissem]

Good morning

I just want to know if my answers above ring true and align with your experience of this?

Do these answers belong to you or is it just a way of communicating?
The truth of the answers must ne seen in direct experience (seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting and touching or sensations). Check the truth of them for yourself and let me know.

Look again at these in direct experience and give answers to each one of them :illustrate with examples from experience.

5) Describe decision,
intention,
free will,
choice and control

What makes things happen? How does it work? Give examples from experience.

Best for you

[Misasc90]

Do these answers belong to you or is it just a way of communicating?

It did feel that the answers belong to 'me', but recognition of this only took place once it was pointed out. 'I' would have overlooked this. The one these answers belongs to is another thought.

The truth of the answers must ne seen in direct experience (seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting and touching or sensations). Check the truth of them for yourself and let me know.

No affirmation truth is seen in hearing, smelling, etc. But the absence of a 'me' is seen in them

5) Describe decision,
intention,
free will,
choice and control

What makes things happen? How does it work? Give examples from experience.

I don't know what makes these happen. Seems to be the result of cause and effect eg. Thirst arises, walking to kitchen, filling cup with water.

Craving for chocolate, thought of chocolate, imagining shop, walking to buy chocolate.

Choice and control still 'feel' present. Volition / will still feela real. Even though i see it as a mere sense.

[warissem]

Hi Michael

I have invited other guides to look at your thread. There will be eventually further questions.

Be patient

[Misasc90]

Ok thanks!

[warissem]

Hi Michael

Strangely, there is no feed back from other guides.
Once again, can you say with a big fat YES that there is no separate self in any shape or form, there never was, it will never be?
Is there still seeking?
Have you chosen to be here in the forum?

Best for you

[warissem]

Hi Michael

A need to clarify from a guide :

Describe how decision is made in direct experience : there is a glass of water and a glass of wine. Look at what is going on when the hand takes one of them.

Have you decided to take it?
Is there a decision maker ? a chooser? a controller?

Do you have any intention to answer to my questions ?

Do you have free will, choosing to go to the left not to the right?


Ponder on the answers and illustrate with examples. take the time needed.

Best for you

[Misasc90]

Ok thanks. Let 'me' sit with this for the next day or so...

🙏

[warissem]

Hi Michael

Another question from a guide :

I might ask to hear more about how is life the same and/or different since starting the process, and how "where he is now" feels in comparison with what he hoped for when he started? Could he wish for more clarity?

Best for you

[Misasc90]

Once again, can you say with a big fat YES that there is no separate self in any shape or form, there never was, it will never be?

Yes. There are times where it feels that 'Michael' knows this. But then I ask myself 'does a pink elephant know this?' And then it's seen 'Michael' can't exist to know anything. But I have to ke🫣eo going back to that example. Yes, no one is going back. That's an idea. There is no separate 'thing' who exists as a self. It's only an imagined idea of a separate self.

Is there still seeking?

There is definitely the pattern of seeking, but it can be seen as energy/movement and no 'Michael' seeking. Although often at times identity is takeing place as a seeker until it's remembered there is no seeker.

Have you chosen to be here in the forum?

No. There is no one here even in the forum. Even the term forum stops making sense. There is just the seen, the typing, etc.

Describe how decision is made in direct experience : there is a glass of water and a glass of wine. Look at what is going on when the hand takes one of them.

Have you decided to take it?

No, but thoughts say "I am taking it" and the thoughts is taken to be true.
Is there a decision maker ? a chooser? a controller?
No. Once again when a choice is made immediately there is the thought 'I am choosing', but it's now seen to be thought and not a 'me'. The 'I' doesn't refer to a real, enduring thing called 'I'.

Do you have any intention to answer to my questions ?

There is intention and wanting to answer but no thing called 'me'. Just thought "I want to" or the feeling sense of wanting and some labels which make it appear as intention.

Do you have free will, choosing to go to the left not to the right?

There is no 'me' to have anything, so no 'me' to have free will. Choices just occur. There is the belief 'I choose' or 'I have choice' but that springs up spontaneously. It is seen as mere language and not pointing to a real 'me'. Compared to the examples above this is less vicerally felt. But still accessible.

Another question from a guide :

I might ask to hear more about how is life the same and/or different since starting the process, and how "where he is now" feels in comparison with what he hoped for when he started? Could he wish for more clarity?

Where I am now is MUCH more clear on there being no real, enduring entity called 'me'. How it's a superimposition, a false idea that is incorrectly taken to be 'I'.

I think I expected (I know this 'I' that expected isn't real and just thoughts which are binding me) to have no more identity with the illusion once seen through it. But although I feel I have seen through it to a great extent, there is still identity with it slipping in from time to time. This makes it feel that maybe there is more to see. Free will still 'feels' present but definitely a stronger sense of unfolding vs doing which I also assume will gain more traction. Does this make sense? Is this in line with what should be happening?

Who wants to know? Well it's an idea of a me wanting to know and skme feeling of anxiety / incompleteness. Wanting perfection. I think that there has been auch an emphasis on getting this, that even though it's seen through quite clearly there is still lots of conditioning of striving and getting it or fear of not getting it. I need to just be with it and see any identity surrounding that is make believe.

Any thoughts on the above would be great? Then I think I need to let thos all settle. You've been a great help!!!

[warissem]

Good morning

Glad to read your insights

I wish you the best

[warissem]

Good morning

But although I feel I have seen through it to a great extent, there is still identity with it slipping in from time to time. This makes it feel that maybe there is more to see.

Who or what is saying "there is more to see"?
Say loudly "there is more to see" and look at your goat to find who or what is saying that?

Free will still 'feels' present but definitely a stronger sense of unfolding vs doing which I also assume will gain more traction. Does this make sense? Is this in line with what should be happening?

Do you have free will? Does Michael have free will?

Who wants to know? Well it's an idea of a me wanting to know and skme feeling of anxiety / incompleteness. Wanting perfection. I think that there has been auch an emphasis on getting this, that even though it's seen through quite clearly there is still lots of conditioning of striving and getting it or fear of not getting it. I need to just be with it and see any identity surrounding that is make believe.

Are you aware right now?
is there clarity in the seeing of the screen and understanding of these words happening without you, without Michael?
Is there a you, Michael to get or not get something?
Do you see without a single doubt that all what is quoted above is a train of thoughts?
Let me know about any lasting doubt arising as thoughts or sensations.

Best for you

[Misasc90]

Thank you for continuing to help clarify and push 'me' into further clarity!

Who or what is saying "there is more to see"?
Say loudly "there is more to see" and look at your goat to find who or what is saying that?

By goat, do you mean thought? I assumed was just a typo so looked at thought.

No one is saying it. Just words. Just thought. I feel in my chest a tensing and that usually is the intial step before falling into the belief of the words. But now I see the trickery forming.

Do you have free will? Does Michael have free will?

Michael is a thought / idea and a thought can't have free will. 'Michael' thought springs up spontaneously. Free will still feels present, but it's seen more clearly to be a feeling and some identifier words eg. "I choose". There is no one to have free will, but tue sense of free will remains. Choosing is seen to be thoughts and narrative and not actual.

Are you aware right now?

Yes

is there clarity in the seeing of the screen and understanding of these words happening without you, without Michael?

Yes

Is there a you, Michael to get or not get something?

Hmmm even if 'I' was to get it, that would be another idea/belief. So no one gets anything. The idea "I got it" still appears, but it doesn't have to be believed. I'm sharing this so you have an honest view of what's going on. There is a 'me' who wants to claim this. But it's seen to be more nonsense imagery.

Do you see without a single doubt that all what is quoted above is a train of thoughts?

Yes, but there is more than thought there is a subtle sense of ownership / me-ness which is clearly just a sense, not a real me. But still very present at times.


Let me know about any lasting doubt arising as thoughts or sensations.

If you could please just address the answers above in a very non compromising way, that'd be great 🙏

[warissem]

Good morning

Hmmm even if 'I' was to get it, that would be another idea/belief. So no one gets anything. The idea "I got it" still appears, but it doesn't have to be believed. I'm sharing this so you have an honest view of what's going on. There is a 'me' who wants to claim this. But it's seen to be more nonsense imagery.

Is there a separate self behind "I" or "me"?
I invite you to do this exercise :
Sit down or lay down eyes open. Say loudly "I speak". Repeat it 2 or 3 times to be familiar with the voice and discard any thinking. Then say "I" loudly and at the same time LOOK at the place from where the voice is coming (the throat, the chest, the mouth) and see what is there. Immediately say loudly "speak" when you raise your head and see what is there. Is there someone speaking or speaking is just happening?

Yes, but there is more than thought there is a subtle sense of ownership / me-ness which is clearly just a sense, not a real me. But still very present at times.

Is this sense of me a thought only or is it associated with a sensation ?
Just split apart the thought "sense of me" and the raw sensation. Focus on the raw sensation and let me know what is there.

Best for you