Bondage of self

[Will1916]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
That from the self perspective I’m not here. I’m just looking, hearing, tasting, feeling, thinking, sensing at any given moment. When I look for the self one can’t be found.

What are you looking for at LU?
Support from a guide. Pointing me in the right direction. Someone to guide me to stay in the openess. To teach me to navigate in the real world from this place. I would also like help unnderstanding & experience the 10 fetters.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Not sure. I think someone to point me in the direction of no self. Support. I would love if someone can guide me to be more present around other people. When I with others I just go right back into self centeredness. Also to help e break my attachment to my thoughts.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
Been listening a lot to Angelo DiLullo a lot. Using the inquiry of “who am I” during the day has created a shift. I thoughts of wanting or receiving love & connection more than anything keep taking me out.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10

[Lubo]

Hi dear Will,

Welcome to the forum.
My name is Lubo and I can walk with you, if you are OK?

Do you have any questions to ask me?

I’m just looking, hearing, tasting, feeling, thinking, sensing at any given moment. When I look for the self one can’t be found.

Excellent, it is clear that this one who is feeling, thinking, tasting cannot be found, right?

Best,
Lubo

[Will1916]

Thanks Lubo,

It is clear for a sliver of time. The thoughts then come in very quickly & say look how present you are or this is what it feels like to be only one or I just go back into fantasy. When I’m sitting in meditation, in motion (walking, on my bike) or remember to just listen to the sounds - that seems to be when it’s most accessible. I still get anxious, am overly concerned about how others feel about me etc. I think these feelings are lessening, but still strong.

[Lubo]

Hi dear Will,

Thanks for the reply.

The thoughts then come in very quickly & say look how present you are or this is what it feels like to be only one or I just go back into fantasy.

notice that the problem is not the thoughts but the idea to whom thoughts are coming to?
What you found?

I am with you,
Lubo

[Lubo]

Hi dear Will,
Are you with me?

Love
Lubo

[Will1916]

I am with you. With thoughts I just get lost. I’m in my head. It’s me me me. It’s very hard for me to slow dow enough to see them as something separate from self. I can get a sense of freedom & space when I go into my sensations, or sometimes with the visual field there is just looking, or just hearing but the thoughts seem different. I lose the space. Everything becomes smaller. It reinforces a sense of “I or me”. I don’t know how to work with thoughts. I realize they are not real, but they grab me & pull me in.

[Lubo]

I hear you. I am with you.

I understand that there are a lot of thoughts. We usualy focused on the content of thoughts and never ask what is that wich recognise content of thoughts.
Notice that thoughts are known?

Look this here:

It’s very hard for me to slow dow enough to see them as something separate from self.

there are thoughts and self.
But you are here to find that there are thoughts but there isn't self, right?
Notice why this thoughts should be a problem?

Look with curiosity -
That wich recognised thoughts is a thought?
Is a body?
Is a something in the head?
Or ?

[Will1916]

No. There is no self. I see clearly that that which recognizes a thought is just a thought. When I look closely for a self I can never find it. Thought arises which is not a problem only that it takes me out. Then most of the time I have a felt sense of self and a feeling of separation. However I can see clearly there is no self.

[Lubo]

Look closely, when there are not thought-how thought can recognise that?
It is importand to find that thoughts are known, but though cannot know thought. Thoughts are no one how thought can know?
Sensation to know sensation?
Colour to know colour?
Sound to know sound?
All these are known including thoughts, right.

[Will1916]

“Thoughts are no one how thought can know?“
I don’t really understand this question. Thoughts don’t know there is just open space.
Sensation to know sensation is a felt sense. I don’t think that’s a tough.
Hearing to know hearing is just sound. It penetrates through me. I don’t think that’s a thought.
Colour is a little tricky. But as long as there is no labeling then I just look. I see colour but I don’t have to label.
Not sure if I’m answering the questions.

[Lubo]

. I see clearly that that which recognizes a thought is just a thought.

Is that right? Thought recognise thought?

[Will1916]

No. A thought is just a thought.

[Lubo]

Wonderful.
Stay with me.
You are in proces already.

Look this:

Hearing to know hearing is just sound. It penetrates through me.

Now "allow" there to be sound only , without to penetrate anything, what is coming?

[Will1916]

Just sound. Everywhere sound.

[Lubo]

Yes. Exelent.
Only thoughts, only sounds
Now colours
Illusion is "There is an I here looking the colours there"
Lets, change the label colours with label "21 century"
Is there something wich is not "21 century" but someone separate from "21 century"
is there distance between "21 century" and something wich is not "21 century"?
Is there you in "21 century" or what can be found is "21 century" only?

I want to see that you are not "21 century", you are much bigger

What is coming?

Love
Lubo