Awakening from the Victim Concept

[Anastacia42]

Sorry, typos... : another guide.

[GoBro]

Hey Stacy,

hahaha I'm open to doing the final questions. I still seemingly have difficult feelings, habits, and addictions come up. Which is ok I guess. It does seem that the main "problem" is simply doubt. For example: I have doubted that being the space in the room was even real or a way for the "me" to claim awakening and gain something.

I am willing to give up doubt and relinquish all control. If there is someone (or you) that can help with this that would be a huge relief... Are you open for a zoom call ASAP? Something is looking for total resolution or clarity... if I need to give this up too now, I will. I thought maybe someone would say something to me that would light me up like a Christmas tree! This is seeking. I guess I want to know Truth beyond it being a peak experience. How do I completely trust Truth (or DE) and let go?

I'll answer the questions from the last post here and then I'll see about the final questions. I did call a friend that has helped me in the past with seeing and he confirmed my "seeing". LOL I guess without the doubt I can't seek and do practices and have this interaction and this weird sense of hope in the same way anymore which might seem scary.

I will continue listening to the Dropbox exercises as well! What was the name of the dude in the recordings by the way?

I can see how I 've been holding back the admission of no self! lol

Does the sense of self have a location?

NO

Does the sense of self have a shape or a size?

NO

Does the sense of self say or communicate anything?

NO

If the answer is yes, how does the sense do this exactly?

Thought, it is itself a thought that morphs into other thoughts. There is no self!

Does the sense of self have any characteristics or attributes?

NO

What is the sense of self ‘made of’? An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? Thought?

Nothing

What is found?

Light, open, tingling sensations, emptiness. Thoughts (sometimes doubting), sensations, images, sounds. NO SELF. This energy that is everywhere.

Now just to trust, relax and let go!

Ongoing inquiry. Infinite let go of self.

Kind Regards,

Brian

[Anastacia42]

Good. I don't give the name of the facilitator at his request. He went into a different business.

You can't give up control. You never had it.

Can you say 100% there's no separate "self? "

Much love,

[Anastacia42]

Vince's meeting is today. Either now or in an hour. I have to check.

We have a couple of support groups that are meeting via teleconference and I'll give you the information on that.

There are 3 meetings.

Vince Shubert runs one on the weekends. Write to vinceschubert@gmail.com for the link & schedule.

Luchana & Lubo run one on Thursdays. Write to Luchana at luchanauzunova@gmail.com

Ilona holds a monthly meeting. Write admin@ilonaciunaite.com for that link & schedule.

Loving,
~ Stacy

[GoBro]

Hey Stacy,

Thanks, you already gave me the info for the meetings but I understand you possibly have many other forum threads running simultaneously. I guess I just missed Vince's meeting!

Can you say 100% there's no separate "self? "

I can say with 100% certainty that there is no separate self.

Kind Regards,

Brian

[Anastacia42]

Yes, 6 or 7, but the point was today's meeting.

Here are the "final" questions.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Loving,

[GoBro]

Hi Stacy,

It is late here and it's been a long day. I will answer these tomorrow after some good rest!

Kind Regards,

Brian

[Anastacia42]

That is fine. I'm having cataract surgery tomorrow and I don't know when I will reply next.

[GoBro]

Hi Stacy,

I did the death meditation in the Dropbox. Open sensations deep in the belly or gut. Feels like there is a dropping into the death with occasional resistances. Something seems to have shifted in the dying! No idea about it, no need to figure it out.

Going to answer the questions tomorrow. Not to delay (ok, maybe a little) but it seemed something was still unraveling!

Kind Regards,

Brian

[Anastacia42]

Good. Will watch for them.

I'm typing with one eye closed. Surgery went well.

Loving,

[GoBro]

I’m happy to hear the surgery went well!

[GoBro]

Hi Stacy,

I met with Luchana and Lubo! It clarified a lot! Lots of laughter and open sensations as well as contractions. There clearly isn't anyone here. I will go ahead and do these questions asap. I'm sorry, I can be a procrastinator!

Kind Regards,

Brian

[Anastacia42]

Beautiful!

[Anastacia42]

Would love to read your answers & tie this up with a bow:

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Loving

[GoBro]

Hi Stacy,

Roger that!

Here are my answers:

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

NO

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The separate self is a thought that changes, accompanied by sensations about which thoughts are had. It comes from nowhere and has no origin. It is pure thought... and can't be found. Really it's a thought of ownership. But for whom? No one.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

There are more open/light sensations more "consistently" and no ability to "get out of" experience or what is here to the same extent. There is no real seeking impulse attempting to find freedom from the current experience. It just is what it is. Whatever appears, appears (as direct experiencing). There also isn't "something" experiencing. Just experiencing. It is quieter.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

I don't know... I don't think "I" had a choice and have no idea when or how it happened. Maybe it was the Dropbox meditations or the retreat I went to on Ibiza where there was just laughter. However, it is clear that the desire to maintain what I am as a thought has dropped away. When there was recognition that this might have happened it was actually surprising. When I heard certain words during the Ibiza retreat it triggered spontaneous laughter, the recognition that there was no control, and the sense that the separate self never wanted this nor was ever going to get it. Then an oscillation between recognition and "not getting it" over which there was no control. The Dropbox meditations seemed to simply affirm there was nothing and never had been.

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

The decision to bike to the park. It happens as a result of nothing with no self to control. Just the thoughts, just the images, sensations, colors, sounds and tastes. Direct experiencing.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

A thought such as "I am going to go to the grocery store", direct experiences of images, colors, sensations, tastes and sounds happening. Such as the sound of cars, the images of grocery items, the sensation of holding a bag of lemons and the sensation of pants against the legs and feet on the ground while walking back.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

The appearance of choice in choicelessness/direct experiencing. The appearance of the direct experience of a thought about going to bet on a soccer match and the sensations, images, sounds and tastes that go along with placing the bet and watching the match. The appearance is that the thought was the choice made by something or someone that isn't there but is thought to be. But, really direct experiencing of what appears is simply happening in the "form" of the thought about a chooser and choice and the images/colors, sensations etc. There isn't any choice, just the thought of one.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

The chooser appears as an "I-thought". Thoughts appear about choices such as the choice to send in a job application or rest in the sensations of the heart. Choice is just thought about what is already happening. Appearance of images/colors, sounds, sensations happen. Thoughts about these experiences happen. Choice is thought. That is it.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

Control is the thought that there is a "controller", I, or separate self that stands apart from experience. Sometimes there are thoughts about controlling emotions or experiences or how 'I' behave. There is the appearance of a thought about a self. Then there is thought about that self "controlling" this experience. A thought about taking ownership of the experience appears. But, there is just thoughts, sensations, sounds, smells etc. Not something apart from experience influencing experience. Just direct experiencing. The thoughts assume there is someone there (almost like a reflex) but there isn't. This if very funny.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

Nothing makes anything happen. For something to make things happen there has to be something separate from what is happening. There is just what is happening... which is thoughts arising, sensations, images/colors, smells, tastes and sounds appearing. That is all that is ever known/experienced. Just this.

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

There is nothing to be responsible for anything. If "I" make my brother upset because the dishes aren't done and I am responsible for making sure "I" do "my" dishes there is thought about needing to do dishes or no thought about doing dishes and the direct experiencing of the moment. In fact, the question seems silly. There might be the sounds of "my brother" (image/color) yelling and more closed sensations and the thought about needing to do the dishes next time. There might even be closed sensations that thoughts label as guilt, and the images/colors, sensations of dishes being done next time. But there isn't a "someone" that's going to do it differently... this is just thought. That doesn't mean the dishes don't get done lol.

6) Anything to add?

It is surprising that it's so simple. Nothing grandiose or rapturous. Just direct experiencing and/or what is happening. It's almost like the questions don't make sense. Like asking "what is the marital status of the number 5?" How could there be a separate self, choices, reasons for things happening, doers etc.? The mind still doesn't understand any of this and never will. The thoughts assumed someone was here for so long and that something had to be done about that. Turns out it isn't true! The whole business seems very silly. I'm grateful for my guide Stacy! Thank you!!

Let me know if this is ok and if further clarification or guidance is needed. Open to whatever!

Kind Regards,

Brian