Dear Elad –
I could see no doer doing what you requested to be done.
You said:
“Take five minutes and make a mark on paper for every thought, intention, feeling and sensation which emerged not chosen or controlled by you. Notice that even if one thought seems associated with another and etc., was there any doer to control that exactly this association came now? What do you see?”
I saw thoughts, intentions, feelings and sensations emerging. I did not see a doer, I did not see anything or anyone controlling the thoughts, intentions, feelings and sensations as they emerged/appeared.
“Is it true there is no separate self, no separate doer in control of all this what you call you?”
I do not see a separate doer in control of all of this which I call “I”.
Thoughts want to say stuff. They gravitate toward wondering about why this and why is that and why I don’t see a doer, why I still feel as if I or something or someone is doing all of what I see happening, what I see “being done”.
But I don’t see a doer doing anything. Things are happening. But I do not see a doer of all of what is happening, and I don’t see a “controller” of what is happening, either.
OK then. I look forward to hearing from you. Good luck to me (and you too, if you need some!)
Best wishes from
Josh(ua)
P.S. I had to give effort to not immediately start doing a lot of youthful philosophizhing.
Talk to you soon.
-Josh
Hello!-JoshO
Re: Hello!-JoshO
Good stuff. You are seeing.
So you cannot find a separate self or doer anywhere at all in direct experience, only as labels, thoughts and thoughts about thoughts?
If this is the case, and if you don't go to denying, doubting and philosophizing in thought, how does it feel?
So you cannot find a separate self or doer anywhere at all in direct experience, only as labels, thoughts and thoughts about thoughts?
If this is the case, and if you don't go to denying, doubting and philosophizing in thought, how does it feel?
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Re: Hello!-JoshO
Dear Elad:
First of all, please allow me to offer good wishes in a few words I suspect you may understand:
l’Shana Tovah to you! (am I correct in my surmise?)
OK, in any case, onward. In your last response to me, you wrote:
“Good stuff. You are seeing.
So you cannot find a separate self or doer anywhere at all in direct experience, only as labels, thoughts and thoughts about thoughts?
If this is the case, and if you don't go to denying, doubting and philosophizing in thought, how does it feel?”
That’s a good but also somewhat nauseating question. I feel like perhaps I have been avoiding it all day. It feels weird, a little destabilizing, almost -- if I allow just the feeling to be here -- a little queasy-in-the-stomach.
I do have a feeling that I have somehow avoided coming back to look at this latest exchange all day long –- even though it has been my rhythm/pattern to write to you pretty much at this point in the day every day, after the rest of everything in the day has concluded.
But you asked me a question! And I would like to try to answer it actually.
A: If I ask the question and stay with the question and don’t go to the thinker, I begin to get the sensation of freefall, even as I am sitting in one place, not moving. It also feels as if I have to go back and look hard at the very words you wrote to me in order to try to force my attention to stay with your question! Somehow, something wants to run away, feels nervous, doesn’t know where to turn to avoid the question, but wants to… (when it isn’t allowed to go to the old escape hatches that are now barred.)
There’s a pit-of-the-stomach feeling here. It’s quite strange, and yet I also have the larger, “background” feeling that it’s a probably a “good” queasy direction to go in, to go toward.
And I keep forgetting how to tolerate that feeling even as I simultaneously forget what you asked me…
and I go back to look at the question (and maybe feel the feeling) again…
(I’ll go now and look.)
And now, having bathed in the question again little more, the queasiness-feeling was there a bit more intensely…
And the slightest beginning of experimentation began. There’s something very strange and very intense in here, it seems to me. I want to be careful not to “get out over my skis with this,” as it were (that is, “get ahead of myself here”), but it almost feels like, strangely, like a key turning in a lock, somehow. I have to go back and look at the question again, in order to keep the focus on the feeling.
Once again.
I think I may have to take a break from this to go to bed, Elad. So let me just try to explain, or describe, what this feeling “feels like” to me at the moment, at least preliminarily. Maybe this is another bunch of thinking, but I had the impression just now somehow that the queasiness felt like the anticipation of loss of something.
And here’s more words about that: again, maybe it’s too much thinking, but the ideas that want to be shared here are that I had the feeling somehow that your words were finding a way to show me that in fact, in reality, there is no Santa Claus, and that the Santa Claus you’re inexorably demonstrating isn’t here IS ME. And I listen to you do it and look at the proofs and experience the vertigo that comes with (at least) glimpsing something that f_____d up.
It feels a little like Bruce Willis's character in that movie "The Sixth Sense" finding out that it was he himself who was the ghost, that the boy who he'd been talking to was the medium with the special ability to "see dead people," and that his whole vision of his reality was being vertiginously torn away from him, turned upside down, as he came to see the truth of the situation was almost the inverse of what he'd understood it to be.
Or maybe I’m just thinking too much again and not realizing it?
I’m going to head to bed now, Elad. Thank you again for your guidance, help, and expertise too. I look forward to hearing your reaction to all of that above.
Best wishes and Happy New Year from
Josh(ua)
First of all, please allow me to offer good wishes in a few words I suspect you may understand:
l’Shana Tovah to you! (am I correct in my surmise?)
OK, in any case, onward. In your last response to me, you wrote:
“Good stuff. You are seeing.
So you cannot find a separate self or doer anywhere at all in direct experience, only as labels, thoughts and thoughts about thoughts?
If this is the case, and if you don't go to denying, doubting and philosophizing in thought, how does it feel?”
That’s a good but also somewhat nauseating question. I feel like perhaps I have been avoiding it all day. It feels weird, a little destabilizing, almost -- if I allow just the feeling to be here -- a little queasy-in-the-stomach.
I do have a feeling that I have somehow avoided coming back to look at this latest exchange all day long –- even though it has been my rhythm/pattern to write to you pretty much at this point in the day every day, after the rest of everything in the day has concluded.
But you asked me a question! And I would like to try to answer it actually.
A: If I ask the question and stay with the question and don’t go to the thinker, I begin to get the sensation of freefall, even as I am sitting in one place, not moving. It also feels as if I have to go back and look hard at the very words you wrote to me in order to try to force my attention to stay with your question! Somehow, something wants to run away, feels nervous, doesn’t know where to turn to avoid the question, but wants to… (when it isn’t allowed to go to the old escape hatches that are now barred.)
There’s a pit-of-the-stomach feeling here. It’s quite strange, and yet I also have the larger, “background” feeling that it’s a probably a “good” queasy direction to go in, to go toward.
And I keep forgetting how to tolerate that feeling even as I simultaneously forget what you asked me…
and I go back to look at the question (and maybe feel the feeling) again…
(I’ll go now and look.)
And now, having bathed in the question again little more, the queasiness-feeling was there a bit more intensely…
And the slightest beginning of experimentation began. There’s something very strange and very intense in here, it seems to me. I want to be careful not to “get out over my skis with this,” as it were (that is, “get ahead of myself here”), but it almost feels like, strangely, like a key turning in a lock, somehow. I have to go back and look at the question again, in order to keep the focus on the feeling.
Once again.
I think I may have to take a break from this to go to bed, Elad. So let me just try to explain, or describe, what this feeling “feels like” to me at the moment, at least preliminarily. Maybe this is another bunch of thinking, but I had the impression just now somehow that the queasiness felt like the anticipation of loss of something.
And here’s more words about that: again, maybe it’s too much thinking, but the ideas that want to be shared here are that I had the feeling somehow that your words were finding a way to show me that in fact, in reality, there is no Santa Claus, and that the Santa Claus you’re inexorably demonstrating isn’t here IS ME. And I listen to you do it and look at the proofs and experience the vertigo that comes with (at least) glimpsing something that f_____d up.
It feels a little like Bruce Willis's character in that movie "The Sixth Sense" finding out that it was he himself who was the ghost, that the boy who he'd been talking to was the medium with the special ability to "see dead people," and that his whole vision of his reality was being vertiginously torn away from him, turned upside down, as he came to see the truth of the situation was almost the inverse of what he'd understood it to be.
Or maybe I’m just thinking too much again and not realizing it?
I’m going to head to bed now, Elad. Thank you again for your guidance, help, and expertise too. I look forward to hearing your reaction to all of that above.
Best wishes and Happy New Year from
Josh(ua)
Re: Hello!-JoshO
Dear Joshua,
Shana tova! Are you of Jewish background also?
This is good work. Please work on the same today again. Go back to my last post again, and work with it more. Tell me what happens, what is seen.
Warmly,
Elad
Shana tova! Are you of Jewish background also?
This is good work. Please work on the same today again. Go back to my last post again, and work with it more. Tell me what happens, what is seen.
Warmly,
Elad
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Re: Hello!-JoshO
Greetings Elad –
Yes, I am of Jewish background myself too – but I was not very strongly raised in nor deeply educated in our ancestral religious tradition, about which I feel decidedly mixed.
In any case: Shalom Chaver! I hope you will forgive me for doing this again so soon, but as today was Rosh Hashanah (as I now expect you are aware), and I am only now, after midnight, back from the day and a family gathering this evening, I have not yet been able to focus on the work and exploration we are doing here and have no real next report to offer yet.
I think it will be more sensible to head to bed now, and give myself to the exploration again tomorrow. Thank you for every bit of this so far.
May this new year be a sweet one for you. I look forward to more contact soon.
With thanks and best wishes from
Josh(ua)
Yes, I am of Jewish background myself too – but I was not very strongly raised in nor deeply educated in our ancestral religious tradition, about which I feel decidedly mixed.
In any case: Shalom Chaver! I hope you will forgive me for doing this again so soon, but as today was Rosh Hashanah (as I now expect you are aware), and I am only now, after midnight, back from the day and a family gathering this evening, I have not yet been able to focus on the work and exploration we are doing here and have no real next report to offer yet.
I think it will be more sensible to head to bed now, and give myself to the exploration again tomorrow. Thank you for every bit of this so far.
May this new year be a sweet one for you. I look forward to more contact soon.
With thanks and best wishes from
Josh(ua)
Re: Hello!-JoshO
Hi Joshua, thanks for your message. The way I see it, we need to disrupt this pattern where you mainly attend to this process at two limited times of the day. This should be ongoing until you are through the gate. And this should not be in opposition to being heartful and attentive with your kids, loved ones, work, and self in the conventional sense. So please look and think and tell me: Are you willing to get fully commited and make this an ongoing part of your life until you are through the gate? And if yes, how are you gonna do it? Don't go helpless "IDK" with me ;) You got more then that. Look forward to hear from you. Warmly, Elad
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Re: Hello!-JoshO
Hi Joshua, thanks for your message. The way I see it, we need to disrupt this pattern where you mainly attend to this process at two limited times of the day. This should be ongoing until you are through the gate. And this should not be in opposition to being heartful and attentive with your kids, loved ones, work, and self in the conventional sense. So please look and think and tell me: Are you willing to get fully commited and make this an ongoing part of your life until you are through the gate? And if yes, how are you gonna do it? Don't go helpless "IDK" with me ;) You got more then that. Look forward to hear from you. Warmly, Elad
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Re: Hello!-JoshO
Greetings Elad -
Here’s what you said most recently:
“So please look and think and tell me: Are you willing to get fully commited and make this an ongoing part of your life until you are through the gate? And if yes, how are you gonna do it? Don't go helpless "IDK" with me ;) You got more then that. Look forward to hear from you.”
Yes. I am willing to commit fully and to make this an ongoing part of my life until I am through the gate. Just the possibility that I could actually make it through The Gateless Gate feels almost like too much to hope for, after many, many, many days, weeks, months and years of looking and trying and effort. Yes, I am certainly willing.
Here is how I propose to do it, at least to begin with (and deferring to your judgment about what might be best):
In a previous course of awareness/awakening practice I pursued in 2019-20 called “Access Points”, I would set a timer to remind me, at intervals all day long and at least 20 times a day, to stop what I was doing in the normal round of life, and pause…and allow space for noticing what might otherwise have been skipped over if I had not set the timer, and stopped, and allowed the space for noticing. I was very glad to do that course, it had some very powerful — although temporary — experiential benefits. It was certainly part of the road that somehow has been walked in this now decades-long exploration/pursuit by “Josh(ua)”.
My first thought, when you asked how I would do it, was to propose simply that I would reset my timer, so that repeatedly during the day, it will remind me pause, stop what I am doing, and look. I may or may not make notes at that point , I’m not quite sure what the best course of action will be beyond stopping and looking. But I have the feeling that at very least, stopping and looking, regularly throughout the day might be a good way to integrate this work, this looking, into the rest of my all-day life.
What do you think?
Thank you for every part of this so far, Elad, and thank you for so confidently saying to me “until you are through the gate”; it gives me the feeling that such a thing might not be completely impossible.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Best wishes from
Josh(ua)
Here’s what you said most recently:
“So please look and think and tell me: Are you willing to get fully commited and make this an ongoing part of your life until you are through the gate? And if yes, how are you gonna do it? Don't go helpless "IDK" with me ;) You got more then that. Look forward to hear from you.”
Yes. I am willing to commit fully and to make this an ongoing part of my life until I am through the gate. Just the possibility that I could actually make it through The Gateless Gate feels almost like too much to hope for, after many, many, many days, weeks, months and years of looking and trying and effort. Yes, I am certainly willing.
Here is how I propose to do it, at least to begin with (and deferring to your judgment about what might be best):
In a previous course of awareness/awakening practice I pursued in 2019-20 called “Access Points”, I would set a timer to remind me, at intervals all day long and at least 20 times a day, to stop what I was doing in the normal round of life, and pause…and allow space for noticing what might otherwise have been skipped over if I had not set the timer, and stopped, and allowed the space for noticing. I was very glad to do that course, it had some very powerful — although temporary — experiential benefits. It was certainly part of the road that somehow has been walked in this now decades-long exploration/pursuit by “Josh(ua)”.
My first thought, when you asked how I would do it, was to propose simply that I would reset my timer, so that repeatedly during the day, it will remind me pause, stop what I am doing, and look. I may or may not make notes at that point , I’m not quite sure what the best course of action will be beyond stopping and looking. But I have the feeling that at very least, stopping and looking, regularly throughout the day might be a good way to integrate this work, this looking, into the rest of my all-day life.
What do you think?
Thank you for every part of this so far, Elad, and thank you for so confidently saying to me “until you are through the gate”; it gives me the feeling that such a thing might not be completely impossible.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Best wishes from
Josh(ua)
Re: Hello!-JoshO
Greetings Elad -
Here’s what you said most recently:
“So please look and think and tell me: Are you willing to get fully commited and make this an ongoing part of your life until you are through the gate? And if yes, how are you gonna do it? Don't go helpless "IDK" with me ;) You got more then that. Look forward to hear from you.”
Yes. I am willing to commit fully and to make this an ongoing part of my life until I am through the gate. Just the possibility that I could actually make it through The Gateless Gate feels almost like too much to hope for, after many, many, many days, weeks, months and years of looking and trying and effort. Yes, I am certainly willing.
Here is how I propose to do it, at least to begin with (and deferring to your judgment about what might be best):
In a previous course of awareness/awakening practice I pursued in 2019-20 called “Access Points”, I would set a timer to remind me, at intervals all day long and at least 20 times a day, to stop what I was doing in the normal round of life, and pause…and allow space for noticing what might otherwise have been skipped over if I had not set the timer, and stopped, and allowed the space for noticing. I was very glad to do that course, it had some very powerful — although temporary — experiential benefits. It was certainly part of the road that somehow has been walked in this now decades-long exploration/pursuit by “Josh(ua)”.
My first thought, when you asked how I would do it, was to propose simply that I would reset my timer, so that repeatedly during the day, it will remind me pause, stop what I am doing, and look. I may or may not make notes at that point , I’m not quite sure what the best course of action will be beyond stopping and looking. But I have the feeling that at very least, stopping and looking, regularly throughout the day might be a good way to integrate this work, this looking, into the rest of my all-day life.
What do you think?
Thank you for every part of this so far, Elad, and thank you for so confidently saying to me “until you are through the gate”; it gives me the feeling that such a thing might not be completely impossible.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Best wishes from
Josh(ua)
Here’s what you said most recently:
“So please look and think and tell me: Are you willing to get fully commited and make this an ongoing part of your life until you are through the gate? And if yes, how are you gonna do it? Don't go helpless "IDK" with me ;) You got more then that. Look forward to hear from you.”
Yes. I am willing to commit fully and to make this an ongoing part of my life until I am through the gate. Just the possibility that I could actually make it through The Gateless Gate feels almost like too much to hope for, after many, many, many days, weeks, months and years of looking and trying and effort. Yes, I am certainly willing.
Here is how I propose to do it, at least to begin with (and deferring to your judgment about what might be best):
In a previous course of awareness/awakening practice I pursued in 2019-20 called “Access Points”, I would set a timer to remind me, at intervals all day long and at least 20 times a day, to stop what I was doing in the normal round of life, and pause…and allow space for noticing what might otherwise have been skipped over if I had not set the timer, and stopped, and allowed the space for noticing. I was very glad to do that course, it had some very powerful — although temporary — experiential benefits. It was certainly part of the road that somehow has been walked in this now decades-long exploration/pursuit by “Josh(ua)”.
My first thought, when you asked how I would do it, was to propose simply that I would reset my timer, so that repeatedly during the day, it will remind me pause, stop what I am doing, and look. I may or may not make notes at that point , I’m not quite sure what the best course of action will be beyond stopping and looking. But I have the feeling that at very least, stopping and looking, regularly throughout the day might be a good way to integrate this work, this looking, into the rest of my all-day life.
What do you think?
Thank you for every part of this so far, Elad, and thank you for so confidently saying to me “until you are through the gate”; it gives me the feeling that such a thing might not be completely impossible.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Best wishes from
Josh(ua)
Re: Hello!-JoshO
Hi Joshua,
I think that is a good idea, do that. However, I think you need more. You need the attitude that you will attend to get to the bottom of this at every moment where you are not purposefully fully attending to something else, work, family, etc. Stop treating what we do here as a practice. Treat it as you going for the kill until it's done. So every moment you don't actively attend constructively to something else, investigate: Did I chose the thought that is there now? Did I chose the feeling and mood and sensation that is there now? Is there any separate self/chooser to be seen here now? Confirm again and again that you find nothing separate in control. And every time you see it, see how it feels. Don't label the feeling and don't buy into stories it's supposed to feel different. This is it, it has been so your whole life, except when you are lost in attending more to stories and beliefs, fantasies and expectations, then to what is. Just like almost everybody else. Okay?
Don't treat this as a practice. Go for the gate until you are ready to acknowledge you "passed through", nothing changed, and yet it is clear.
Elad
I think that is a good idea, do that. However, I think you need more. You need the attitude that you will attend to get to the bottom of this at every moment where you are not purposefully fully attending to something else, work, family, etc. Stop treating what we do here as a practice. Treat it as you going for the kill until it's done. So every moment you don't actively attend constructively to something else, investigate: Did I chose the thought that is there now? Did I chose the feeling and mood and sensation that is there now? Is there any separate self/chooser to be seen here now? Confirm again and again that you find nothing separate in control. And every time you see it, see how it feels. Don't label the feeling and don't buy into stories it's supposed to feel different. This is it, it has been so your whole life, except when you are lost in attending more to stories and beliefs, fantasies and expectations, then to what is. Just like almost everybody else. Okay?
Don't treat this as a practice. Go for the gate until you are ready to acknowledge you "passed through", nothing changed, and yet it is clear.
Elad
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Re: Hello!-JoshO
Dear Elad –
OK, so here’s the deal: I received your message, and I instantly knew that it was right, the right way to go, etc. It also slightly nauseated me, in the same way that I felt nauseated recently – when you guided me to the precipice of finding out what I suspect so much with my intellect, but which “gives me vertigo” when I tentatively look over the edge into the abyss of “holy shit there’s nothing there.”
As I write this to you, I am instantly a little worried that you will think I’m copping out here, but I am only just checking in following on the day in which you gave me that last advice, about looking all the time, whenever I’m not actively involved in doing anything else.
What I am sheepishly admitting here is that although I made some feeble attempts to keep looking during the day today, I did not immediately reset my every-34-minutes-and-56-seconds timer (as I used to do back in the “Access Points” days)… and the same sort of strange difficulty got in my way today as I experienced a few days ago, as I attempted to find my way back to that “sweet spot” of looking/nausea that you brought me so close to then just a day or two ago, and then earlier today very briefly as I considered what this next assignment is.
I just didn’t “look” or “see” very assiduously or effectively today. And even though I did describe to you a couple of days ago that in my direct experience I did not see a doer or a controller anywhere… I have to confess that I somehow feel like I need help here. Something immediately speaks up to tell me that no one can do this for me, and at the same time, I was just not very laser-like in my looking today. I need to practice better. I don’t know necessarily that I need, actually need, your guidance and advice about “how to do this best,” but somehow, I feel like I need help to do this best.
Do I see a “controller” or a “doer” when I look at the thoughts, feelings, impressions, ideas that arise? At the moment, I wish that I could say something better than “I’m really just not sure of anything at the moment.”
Would it be wrong of me to ask you for very explicit instructions about how to proceed from here – even if I kind of know already what it is that I need to do?
Maybe I can give them to myself here… (which is after all what may be happening when “you” give them to “me” as well)
What do I need to do? Would you say, “stop not just every 34+ minutes and look at what arises, any feeling, thought, sensation, anything, but stop and notice all the time, any time, how it goes. Is there a doer or a controller of any of what arises when you just stop and look?”
Is that what you would say?
And then… I get that slightly freaked out feeling, and I have a hard time holding my head in place so as to just look. I seem to want to recreate that nausea, push toward that – is that the best thing to do?
I would like to ask your very specific guidance here and now, Elad. I have such a strong feeling that what you are recommending is exactly the thing that needs to happen now… and I somehow yearn to be given an exact directive, from you who are my guide here in this quite new LU approach that I’ve never tried before, I want a protocol to follow, and I want you to give it to me, in explicit language. Is that wrong to want that?
Thank you for your patience with me yet again, Elad. I kind of love the relentlessness you recommended to me in your last message, and I want to go for this without relenting… and somehow I’ve had a challenging moment getting the person here to focus. Your explicit guidance, restated for the sake of unmistakable clarity as I prepare myself here to go after this with everything I can give it, is very much sought here. Thank you for it, in advance, if you don’t mind.
I look forward to hearing from you and to going forward from here.
With best wishes from
Josh(ua)
OK, so here’s the deal: I received your message, and I instantly knew that it was right, the right way to go, etc. It also slightly nauseated me, in the same way that I felt nauseated recently – when you guided me to the precipice of finding out what I suspect so much with my intellect, but which “gives me vertigo” when I tentatively look over the edge into the abyss of “holy shit there’s nothing there.”
As I write this to you, I am instantly a little worried that you will think I’m copping out here, but I am only just checking in following on the day in which you gave me that last advice, about looking all the time, whenever I’m not actively involved in doing anything else.
What I am sheepishly admitting here is that although I made some feeble attempts to keep looking during the day today, I did not immediately reset my every-34-minutes-and-56-seconds timer (as I used to do back in the “Access Points” days)… and the same sort of strange difficulty got in my way today as I experienced a few days ago, as I attempted to find my way back to that “sweet spot” of looking/nausea that you brought me so close to then just a day or two ago, and then earlier today very briefly as I considered what this next assignment is.
I just didn’t “look” or “see” very assiduously or effectively today. And even though I did describe to you a couple of days ago that in my direct experience I did not see a doer or a controller anywhere… I have to confess that I somehow feel like I need help here. Something immediately speaks up to tell me that no one can do this for me, and at the same time, I was just not very laser-like in my looking today. I need to practice better. I don’t know necessarily that I need, actually need, your guidance and advice about “how to do this best,” but somehow, I feel like I need help to do this best.
Do I see a “controller” or a “doer” when I look at the thoughts, feelings, impressions, ideas that arise? At the moment, I wish that I could say something better than “I’m really just not sure of anything at the moment.”
Would it be wrong of me to ask you for very explicit instructions about how to proceed from here – even if I kind of know already what it is that I need to do?
Maybe I can give them to myself here… (which is after all what may be happening when “you” give them to “me” as well)
What do I need to do? Would you say, “stop not just every 34+ minutes and look at what arises, any feeling, thought, sensation, anything, but stop and notice all the time, any time, how it goes. Is there a doer or a controller of any of what arises when you just stop and look?”
Is that what you would say?
And then… I get that slightly freaked out feeling, and I have a hard time holding my head in place so as to just look. I seem to want to recreate that nausea, push toward that – is that the best thing to do?
I would like to ask your very specific guidance here and now, Elad. I have such a strong feeling that what you are recommending is exactly the thing that needs to happen now… and I somehow yearn to be given an exact directive, from you who are my guide here in this quite new LU approach that I’ve never tried before, I want a protocol to follow, and I want you to give it to me, in explicit language. Is that wrong to want that?
Thank you for your patience with me yet again, Elad. I kind of love the relentlessness you recommended to me in your last message, and I want to go for this without relenting… and somehow I’ve had a challenging moment getting the person here to focus. Your explicit guidance, restated for the sake of unmistakable clarity as I prepare myself here to go after this with everything I can give it, is very much sought here. Thank you for it, in advance, if you don’t mind.
I look forward to hearing from you and to going forward from here.
With best wishes from
Josh(ua)
Re: Hello!-JoshO
Hi Joshua,
Heres the deal:
1) Your instructions to look are enough. If needed more precision, you will find it, using your heart and brains.
2) Stop calling this an approach, stop relating with this as an approach, stop relating with this as a process in time after all your other processes. That's selfing. This is you giving your all to go through the gate - or not.
3) Stop writing me about your failures, how you didn't look, didn't feel, it's not interesting. That writing at this point - just time spent on ego. Not interesting to scold, not interesting to fix. Fuck it. Stop writing me about it. Do your best, leave all the rest. Don't ask more questions about this.
4) Stop aiming for the nauseating feeling or to recreate anything. You know this. Stop acting less smart then you are!!!!!
From here my role will be more minor. I am only here to hear what you have seen. An anchor to share the good work, the seeing. Only the good work!! And the good work from here is not about how you feel. You all ready know that. Stop insulting yourself.
In truth,
Elad
Heres the deal:
1) Your instructions to look are enough. If needed more precision, you will find it, using your heart and brains.
2) Stop calling this an approach, stop relating with this as an approach, stop relating with this as a process in time after all your other processes. That's selfing. This is you giving your all to go through the gate - or not.
3) Stop writing me about your failures, how you didn't look, didn't feel, it's not interesting. That writing at this point - just time spent on ego. Not interesting to scold, not interesting to fix. Fuck it. Stop writing me about it. Do your best, leave all the rest. Don't ask more questions about this.
4) Stop aiming for the nauseating feeling or to recreate anything. You know this. Stop acting less smart then you are!!!!!
From here my role will be more minor. I am only here to hear what you have seen. An anchor to share the good work, the seeing. Only the good work!! And the good work from here is not about how you feel. You all ready know that. Stop insulting yourself.
In truth,
Elad
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Re: Hello!-JoshO
Dear Elad –
It’s been quite a day. It feels like a little bit of a mix of what has been my way so far and what I’m hopeful is emerging. I read your note first while it was still dark out this morning. I recorded some of myself speaking into one of my devices on my way to work this morning, in the midst of the intensity that arrived with my looking, seeing as you had directed. I’d like to share the transcript of what I recorded for you now, as as part of my checking in here again, at the very end of the day after a long day. Here’s what I said on my way to work this very morning:
“Elad, I wanted to check in with you this morning. I have been already experiencing effects of this constant looking. I don't quite know how to put words to it right now as I sit here on the subway, but it has been a very important shift in approach to life on Earth.
Words will come, I have a feeling, all day long, but I did want to…well… I just rearranged my watch so that I could quickly record anything I wanted to say to you in the moment because it is… because a revolution, I think, has been ignited here. I'm not even controlling what it is that's coming out of my mouth at the moment, and I'm learning to not, that might be part of it.
There's a big, big opportunity here, and I don't really… and I… I want to get out of the way completely. I want to take “Mr. Tryer” out of the way completely -- by remembering that he doesn't exist. It takes a little… it's an interesting quandary… to remember that I have to keep remembering (that I don’t exist).
Anyway, talk to you more later.”
OK so – the way that this day has gone has been an interesting mix, as I said before. I began the day with you and your words, as I have often done in the last few weeks. It happens that the way things unfolded this morning (with my commute) was slightly different from my usual lately, but what was most exciting was that I was looking. Yes, I am now speaking from memory, this is not me looking right now – this is me telling a story of something that happened. But I can remember, if distantly, that it was very, very, very exciting and joyous, the beginning of what felt like access to free living, to removing the lid from my lived life. I’m noticing that in fact, there is only a lid there when I impose the idea that “I” exist on top of the life that wants to run through here untrammeled.
I felt very, very happy this morning, like I was onto something that I have been pursuing for a very long time… And then, even though I did regularly take breaks from whatever it was, work or whatever, that I needed to put my attention on, the sensation was that I was not always able to “find my way back” to the fantastic, joyous naturalness that I experienced at the beginning of the day.
OK, yes, I do realize that I am trying to have it both ways here – what I’ve just written down here “is just selfing and stories and noise and egoic hoohah” as you might have said already (those were not exactly your words, I’m paraphrasing of course).
Also, I have to admit that I just sort of do find it hard sometimes to do exactly as you have directed. But I also recognize that with your help and direction, and with my attention where it “ought to have been,” I felt like I had a very strong taste this morning of something heartfelt, something like freedom, like joyous living exactly in this life as it is. I want to keep pursuing this, I want to keep doing the work.
Any words of encouragement, and direction, that you feel moved to share with me at this point will certainly be much appreciated. Somehow, from this perspective (which may be the one I have to drop after all), perhaps I could say that I left the dreamworld for a beautiful, not-very-long time this morning … and I’m not even going to point at it with my words at the moment. I don’t wanna think about it or be a smart guy about it. I want to look as you have directed me to do and see whether there is a doer or a controller here.
I somehow keep “forgetting” that there isn’t.
I look forward to hearing from you Elad. Thank you for the gift of the work you have done with me so far. Please don’t leave me yet – I don’t feel like I’m nearly ready for that. More guidance, more greeting, more hello-JoshO when you have time for this and me, please.
Something is afoot, it appears. And I don’t know how to “shut the f__k up” and let it happen.
Looking forward to hearing from you again.
Best wishes from
Joshua
It’s been quite a day. It feels like a little bit of a mix of what has been my way so far and what I’m hopeful is emerging. I read your note first while it was still dark out this morning. I recorded some of myself speaking into one of my devices on my way to work this morning, in the midst of the intensity that arrived with my looking, seeing as you had directed. I’d like to share the transcript of what I recorded for you now, as as part of my checking in here again, at the very end of the day after a long day. Here’s what I said on my way to work this very morning:
“Elad, I wanted to check in with you this morning. I have been already experiencing effects of this constant looking. I don't quite know how to put words to it right now as I sit here on the subway, but it has been a very important shift in approach to life on Earth.
Words will come, I have a feeling, all day long, but I did want to…well… I just rearranged my watch so that I could quickly record anything I wanted to say to you in the moment because it is… because a revolution, I think, has been ignited here. I'm not even controlling what it is that's coming out of my mouth at the moment, and I'm learning to not, that might be part of it.
There's a big, big opportunity here, and I don't really… and I… I want to get out of the way completely. I want to take “Mr. Tryer” out of the way completely -- by remembering that he doesn't exist. It takes a little… it's an interesting quandary… to remember that I have to keep remembering (that I don’t exist).
Anyway, talk to you more later.”
OK so – the way that this day has gone has been an interesting mix, as I said before. I began the day with you and your words, as I have often done in the last few weeks. It happens that the way things unfolded this morning (with my commute) was slightly different from my usual lately, but what was most exciting was that I was looking. Yes, I am now speaking from memory, this is not me looking right now – this is me telling a story of something that happened. But I can remember, if distantly, that it was very, very, very exciting and joyous, the beginning of what felt like access to free living, to removing the lid from my lived life. I’m noticing that in fact, there is only a lid there when I impose the idea that “I” exist on top of the life that wants to run through here untrammeled.
I felt very, very happy this morning, like I was onto something that I have been pursuing for a very long time… And then, even though I did regularly take breaks from whatever it was, work or whatever, that I needed to put my attention on, the sensation was that I was not always able to “find my way back” to the fantastic, joyous naturalness that I experienced at the beginning of the day.
OK, yes, I do realize that I am trying to have it both ways here – what I’ve just written down here “is just selfing and stories and noise and egoic hoohah” as you might have said already (those were not exactly your words, I’m paraphrasing of course).
Also, I have to admit that I just sort of do find it hard sometimes to do exactly as you have directed. But I also recognize that with your help and direction, and with my attention where it “ought to have been,” I felt like I had a very strong taste this morning of something heartfelt, something like freedom, like joyous living exactly in this life as it is. I want to keep pursuing this, I want to keep doing the work.
Any words of encouragement, and direction, that you feel moved to share with me at this point will certainly be much appreciated. Somehow, from this perspective (which may be the one I have to drop after all), perhaps I could say that I left the dreamworld for a beautiful, not-very-long time this morning … and I’m not even going to point at it with my words at the moment. I don’t wanna think about it or be a smart guy about it. I want to look as you have directed me to do and see whether there is a doer or a controller here.
I somehow keep “forgetting” that there isn’t.
I look forward to hearing from you Elad. Thank you for the gift of the work you have done with me so far. Please don’t leave me yet – I don’t feel like I’m nearly ready for that. More guidance, more greeting, more hello-JoshO when you have time for this and me, please.
Something is afoot, it appears. And I don’t know how to “shut the f__k up” and let it happen.
Looking forward to hearing from you again.
Best wishes from
Joshua
Re: Hello!-JoshO
Dear Joshua,
I am here with all the care, not holding back one drop of support, with you all the way.
Elad
I am here with all the care, not holding back one drop of support, with you all the way.
Elad
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Re: Hello!-JoshO
Dear Elad –
I just reread my post from yesterday, and then your very brief, kind response. Thank you for it.
I don’t wanna waste your time or mine today with stories or drama or any of the bullshit… And yet, I have to confess that, although I did stop multiple times to, for instance, take five minutes and look to see the thoughts, impressions, sensations, perceptions that arose in awareness and to see if any doer or controller of any of those could be found – even though I did repeat that “looking” activity you recently gave me to do…
… somehow, somehow, there was a significant amount of looking back at the richness of yesterday, or trying to re-create something, or “hoping that something felt some way”
Or some other bullshit which I know to be bullshit already.
I promise that I’m not trying consciously to be a pain in the ass here, Elad. I do feel, somehow that I am tangling myself up in thoughts and old habits and yearning and "Selfing", and somehow, even though I made marks on paper for five minutes, every time, a thought or an impression, or a perception emerged…
You know, it seems to me that I don’t want to even this quatsch, and would be better just go to what I see right now. What do I see right now? Do I see a separate doer or controller of thoughts here, or perceptions, or sensations? Let me look for a moment please.
I see grumpiness.
Do I see a doer or controller of the grumpiness?
I fantasize one, but I don’t see one.
I have worked more regularly throughout the day in the last few days, since you spoke up and said that it would be important to change the way I was engaging here. I did my work, I lived my life, and I also paused from the "normal round" multiple times to “try and look.”
I’m kind of annoying the shit out of myself here Elad, if you wanna know the truth. I can’t help but think that I must be annoying the shit out of you, and then, I think more thoughts to know I’m just thinking and thinking, and that I was thinking this noise, and distraction, and not doing the seeing you have called on me to keep after.
What am I seeing now? A bunch of noise and arm waving… and when there’s a pause in the arm waving, I look to see what’s there, right now for instance. What can be seen now?
Somebody trying something, and wanting to say, “I’m confused,” and whine a lot.
Elad, it has become very late again, and I have hurt myself a couple of times in a row going to bed too late as I stayed up writing to you. I do mean to try to take care of my physical health as well as I can here, so I’m going to pause my mess here and get ready for bed and go to bed.
Perhaps you have already given me all the guidance that anybody should need… and yet, I must admit to feeling lost, and like I’m acting stupider than I actually am, and that is not my ambition here. Thank you for your support, thank you for helping me see as clearly as possible how to cut as much of my historical and habitual bullshit out of this process as quickly and efficiently as possible.
Forgive me for saying the most obvious shit that I could now, but: Not through any freaking gate yet.
I look forward to hearing from you again, to receiving whatever guidance you may feel is most appropriate to share at this point, and to moving forward tomorrow.
With best wishes from
Josh(ua)
I just reread my post from yesterday, and then your very brief, kind response. Thank you for it.
I don’t wanna waste your time or mine today with stories or drama or any of the bullshit… And yet, I have to confess that, although I did stop multiple times to, for instance, take five minutes and look to see the thoughts, impressions, sensations, perceptions that arose in awareness and to see if any doer or controller of any of those could be found – even though I did repeat that “looking” activity you recently gave me to do…
… somehow, somehow, there was a significant amount of looking back at the richness of yesterday, or trying to re-create something, or “hoping that something felt some way”
Or some other bullshit which I know to be bullshit already.
I promise that I’m not trying consciously to be a pain in the ass here, Elad. I do feel, somehow that I am tangling myself up in thoughts and old habits and yearning and "Selfing", and somehow, even though I made marks on paper for five minutes, every time, a thought or an impression, or a perception emerged…
You know, it seems to me that I don’t want to even this quatsch, and would be better just go to what I see right now. What do I see right now? Do I see a separate doer or controller of thoughts here, or perceptions, or sensations? Let me look for a moment please.
I see grumpiness.
Do I see a doer or controller of the grumpiness?
I fantasize one, but I don’t see one.
I have worked more regularly throughout the day in the last few days, since you spoke up and said that it would be important to change the way I was engaging here. I did my work, I lived my life, and I also paused from the "normal round" multiple times to “try and look.”
I’m kind of annoying the shit out of myself here Elad, if you wanna know the truth. I can’t help but think that I must be annoying the shit out of you, and then, I think more thoughts to know I’m just thinking and thinking, and that I was thinking this noise, and distraction, and not doing the seeing you have called on me to keep after.
What am I seeing now? A bunch of noise and arm waving… and when there’s a pause in the arm waving, I look to see what’s there, right now for instance. What can be seen now?
Somebody trying something, and wanting to say, “I’m confused,” and whine a lot.
Elad, it has become very late again, and I have hurt myself a couple of times in a row going to bed too late as I stayed up writing to you. I do mean to try to take care of my physical health as well as I can here, so I’m going to pause my mess here and get ready for bed and go to bed.
Perhaps you have already given me all the guidance that anybody should need… and yet, I must admit to feeling lost, and like I’m acting stupider than I actually am, and that is not my ambition here. Thank you for your support, thank you for helping me see as clearly as possible how to cut as much of my historical and habitual bullshit out of this process as quickly and efficiently as possible.
Forgive me for saying the most obvious shit that I could now, but: Not through any freaking gate yet.
I look forward to hearing from you again, to receiving whatever guidance you may feel is most appropriate to share at this point, and to moving forward tomorrow.
With best wishes from
Josh(ua)