Diving into direct experience

[Bluejay]

Good morning, Jaïr!

I do like pizza, so maybe this is the self that I have been looking for all this time hahahah!

Haha, yes :-)

Yeah, so when I try to locate the sense of self somewhere in behind my face I only find sensations. However, it then seems like the sense of self retreats back to some parts inside my head where I cannot feel any sensations. And since I cannot feel any sensations I cannot ‘prove’ that the sense of self is absent. So I know that the sensations that I feel are not the sense of self, but rather just body sensations. However, the sense of self seems to still persist in the parts of inside of my head where I do not feel any sensations.

This sounds like a thought saying 'I am still here, but you just cannot find me'? :)

Is the thought pointing to sense of self that is hiding?

Does the thought have any idea what is going on, or is it simply saying stuff?

Hmm, the first thing that came to mind was that my face is the border between the space where my thoughts appear and the space where everything else appears. However, then I noticed that my face was just a bunch of sensations so now I’m unsure and very confused haha. The thoughts and the sensations then seemed to appear more closely together and not as much separate as first. However, the seeing, hearing, etc. still seemed to appear at a ‘distance’ from the thoughts and face sensations.

These are some great findings. We'll explore this more below.

I don’t know why the sense of self seems to be in my head. I have not found it anywhere in direct experience. I wanted to answer that it is because everything I sense appears in front of my face, however the sensations that form my face also appear in the same location. So now I really have no idea why the sense of self is in my head, because now it looks like there was never a reason for it to be there in the first place.

Great looking!

Could it be that it is nothing more than a habit?

We're told we have a self, so we have to put 'it' somewhere, right? :)

This was really hard to put into words, so I hope it all makes a little bit of sense hahah.

By the way, these questions were awesome! They really ‘forced’ me to investigate all this stuff without allowing me to rely on thinking to come up with answers.

You did great. I understood perfectly.

Glad you liked the questions!

Here's the exercise:

Body Exercise

Sit with eyes closed for about 15 minutes. Paying attention only to the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images:

Can it be known how tall the body is? Does the body have a weight or volume? In direct experience does the body have a shape or a form?

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing? Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

Is there an inside or an outside? If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly? If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?

What does the word/label ‘body’ actually refer to? What is the direct experience of the body?

Is your 'mental' world' inside your head, or is your head inside your 'mental world' as a representation/idea/image?

Look very carefully, especially with the last two questions.

Take your time, don’t rush. You can look several times during the day while doing other things (like washing hands, showering, having a short break from work, walking, eating, etc) before replying.

[Jairi7]

Hi Henri

I am a little bit busy this week, so I won't be able to post the following days. I hope to be back to posting on Friday!

Jaïr

[Bluejay]

Okay, thanks for letting me know, Jaïr :)

[Jairi7]

Hi Henri,

Firstly I want to apologize for not being able to post during the weekend and not letting you know, I was a little bit busier than I expected.

I did the exercise a couple of times:

Can it be known how tall the body is? Does the body have a weight or volume? In direct experience does the body have a shape or a form?

It cannot be known how tall or heavy the body is based on only the body sensations. The shape/form of the body only starts to appear whenever thoughts about the body appear. I actually never noticed how subtle and rapid these thoughts are. They can be as simple as an image of my knee or foot or hand. However, when they appear in rapid succession they seem to constitute a body. The thoughts are so rapid that I can only really keep up for a few seconds. But even in those few seconds the shape of my body drastically changes. For example, for a very brief moment my foot and head appeared to be in the exact same place. Then when I lose track of the thoughts the image of the ‘normal’ shape of the body is restored.

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing? Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

At first there seems to be a shirt. However, on closer inspection the shirt consists of an image of the shirt and a body sensation that is interpreted as the boundary between the body and the shirt. When I then focus on another body sensation and refocus on the shirt, it is back to being a shirt. However, the dissection of the shirt into what it actually is happens quite fast, so I can do it many times in a row.

Is there an inside or an outside? If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly? If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?

Ehmm, this one is little bit tougher. It seems that the body sensations of my face are interpreted as the boundary between inside and outside. When I focus on the ‘outside’, there seems to be a slightly different body sensation at the back of my eyes then when I focus on the ‘inside’. This difference appears to be interpreted as the distinction between ‘outside’ and ‘inside’. However, this is all quite subtle, so I’m not entirely sure.

What does the word/label ‘body’ actually refer to? What is the direct experience of the body?

I’m not sure if I understood this question correctly, so let me know if I need to clarify this one. With my eyes closed, the label ‘body’ actually refers to the body sensations in combination with the thoughts about the body. However, there is no direct experience of a ‘body’ that precedes the sensations and thoughts. There is only the direct experience of the body sensations and thoughts about the body.

Is your 'mental' world' inside your head, or is your head inside your 'mental world' as a representation/idea/image?

During the exercise, my mental world was sometimes inside my head and sometimes my head was inside my mental world. Which one of the two seemed to be true depended on whatever the focus was on. When the focus was on the sensations of my head, the head was inside the mental world. When I was unaware of these sensations, it seemed to be that the mental world was inside my head.

~Jaïr

[Bluejay]

Firstly I want to apologize for not being able to post during the weekend and not letting you know, I was a little bit busier than I expected.

Glad to have you back, Jaïr!

The shape/form of the body only starts to appear whenever thoughts about the body appear. I actually never noticed how subtle and rapid these thoughts are.

Very nice observation.

However, there is no direct experience of a ‘body’ that precedes the sensations and thoughts. There is only the direct experience of the body sensations and thoughts about the body.

Yup, you got it.

When I was unaware of these sensations, it seemed to be that the mental world was inside my head.

Yes, as with the rest of the body, thoughts map sensations and create locations for them.

Let's look closer at boundaries:

Hand on Desk

Please close your eyes for this exercise, just notice any ‘mental’ images or thoughts that appear and put them aside.

Place a hand on a desk or table (flat surface) and close your eyes.

Now 'go to' the feeling/sensation which we would normally refer to as 'hand on desk' and answer from what you can FIND.

(Notice that as you stay with this exercise for longer, things change).

1) How many things do you find? Are there two things (hand and desk) or is there one thing – sensation?

2) Can a ‘feeler’ be found in 'what is being felt'?

3) Do you notice 'one thing feeling another thing'? Or is there just 'a sensation'?

4) Do you find an 'I', a body, a hand 'feeling' . . . or is there just 'a sensation'? What do you find?

Can an inherent feeler be found?

Would anything that is suggested as the feeler, be anything other than a concept, idea or thought?

[Jairi7]

Hi Henri,

I did the exercise. When answering the questions I found that wherever it seems to be that the ‘I’ is, there are only sensations. In this moment of recognition (which lasts maybe 0.5 seconds) there is no ‘I’. However, the sense of there being an ‘I’ returns when the attention switches onto another sensation. As a result, there are only very brief moments when there is no ‘I’. The questions are answered from the experience in those brief moments.

1) How many things do you find? Are there two things (hand and desk) or is there one thing – sensation?

There is one ‘thing’, sensation. The first few seconds of the exercise, there still seems to be a ‘hand’, but fairly quickly this is dissected into just the sensations on the top of the hand (not the part that touches the desk). After clearing that up, there is just the sensation between hand and the desk.

2) Can a ‘feeler’ be found in 'what is being felt'?

No, the feeler can not be found in what is being felt. There are facial sensations that make it seem like there is a face behind which there appears to be a feeler. But in the hand sensations themselves there is no feeler.

3) Do you notice 'one thing feeling another thing'? Or is there just 'a sensation'?

Hmm, this one is a bit tougher to answer. I am pretty sure there is just sensation. However, my attention constantly switches onto other sensations (mainly in my face and head) which makes it seem like there is another ‘thing’ that is feeling the sensation between the hand and the desk. The switching is subtle and very quick at times, so it can be hard to track.

4) Do you find an 'I', a body, a hand 'feeling' . . . or is there just 'a sensation'? What do you find?

Once dissected, there is just sensation. The ‘I’, ‘body’ and ‘hand’ are not in direct experience and therefore do not appear. Instead of those ‘things’ all I find is just sensations.

Finally, I wanted to let you know about a weird moment this morning. I’m not sure if it is relevant at all, but it seemed to have something to do with the previous two exercises. So I just wanted to get it off my chest. I had just started to wake up and was still half asleep when I noticed some of the sensations in my nose and mouth. At that exact moment almost my entire head (except for my nose and mouth) was completely gone. It ‘re-appeared’ when my attention moved to the other sensations in my head/face about 0.5 seconds later.

~Jaïr

[Bluejay]

As a result, there are only very brief moments when there is no ‘I’. The questions are answered from the experience in those brief moments.

Yes, it can be like this. It's a belief, so it goes back to automatic. The more you look and see there is nothing, the more it begins to lose its grip.

No, the feeler can not be found in what is being felt. There are facial sensations that make it seem like there is a face behind which there appears to be a feeler. But in the hand sensations themselves there is no feeler.

Can a feeler be found in the face sensations?

Hmm, this one is a bit tougher to answer. I am pretty sure there is just sensation. However, my attention constantly switches onto other sensations (mainly in my face and head) which makes it seem like there is another ‘thing’ that is feeling the sensation between the hand and the desk. The switching is subtle and very quick at times, so it can be hard to track.

Can 'you' be aware of two sensations at the same time, or is it just switching between hand and face quickly?

Finally, I wanted to let you know about a weird moment this morning. I’m not sure if it is relevant at all, but it seemed to have something to do with the previous two exercises. So I just wanted to get it off my chest. I had just started to wake up and was still half asleep when I noticed some of the sensations in my nose and mouth. At that exact moment almost my entire head (except for my nose and mouth) was completely gone. It ‘re-appeared’ when my attention moved to the other sensations in my head/face about 0.5 seconds later.

This can happen when boundaries are explored. The reason this happens is because things like 'nose', 'head' and 'mouth' do not really exist. They are images that the mind creates. Nothing to be afraid of. Just enjoy the ride :)

[Jairi7]

Hi Henri,

I’m very sorry for disappearing for so long. During the exercises I started to understand a little more what it meant to not be a ‘me’. And to be really honest, it freaked me out a little bit. It felt like without the ‘me’ my experience was extremely bland and shallow and devoid of any meaning. I had to take a break and let everything settle down. I should have written a quick message to let you know, but every time I thought about doing that I felt that scared feeling and thus didn’t do it. So I want to apologize for that. I don’t know if you still have time/want to guide me. But if so, I’m ready to start doing the exercises again.

~ Jaïr

[Bluejay]

Hi Jaïr,

Of course we can continue. But before that, a few things:

Are you ready to post at least every 48 hours?

And if fear comes up like this again, can you share it here in the forum so we can explore it?

This fear is a part of this inquiry. Remember, the 'me' has never existed in the first place. Even now while reading this, there is no 'me' or 'self' so any experience where life without the 'me' feels bland or shallow is thinking creating a reason to avoid this inquiry.

If this happens again, ignore the thoughts, and feel the feeling fully. Go into the fear and welcome it. Don't even label it fear, but feel the sensations. There's a reason they say you have to be willing to give up everything to do this, or be willing to die, because thoughts will try to scare you away :)

[Jairi7]

Hi Henri,

Are you ready to post at least every 48 hours? And if fear comes up like this again, can you share it here in the forum so we can explore it?

Yes, I will post every 48 hours. And if I inevitably get scared again I will post it in the forum.

This fear is a part of this inquiry. Remember, the 'me' has never existed in the first place. Even now while reading this, there is no 'me' or 'self' so any experience where life without the 'me' feels bland or shallow is thinking creating a reason to avoid this inquiry. If this happens again, ignore the thoughts, and feel the feeling fully. Go into the fear and welcome it. Don't even label it fear, but feel the sensations. There's a reason they say you have to be willing to give up everything to do this, or be willing to die, because thoughts will try to scare you away :)

Yes, now that I’ve gotten a little taste of what is to come, I am ready to face it.

~ Jaïr

[Bluejay]

Okay, great.

Let's continue with this:

Observing Thoughts

Here is a thought exercise. Sit quietly for about 30 minutes and notice the arising thoughts. Just let them appear.

Try your best to completely ignore what they are saying and just notice how they appear without you doing anything at all.

Where are they coming from and going to?

Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?

Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?

Can you predict the next thought?

Can you select from a range of thoughts to only have pleasant thoughts?

Do you control where attention goes?

Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?

Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?

Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

It may seem like thoughts are ordered logically, but look carefully. Is there an organized sequence? Or is it just another thought that says 'these thoughts are in sequence' or 'they take content from previous thoughts' or 'one thought follows another thought'?

Let me know what you find :)

[Jairi7]

Hi Henri,

I did the exercise, this is what I found:

Where are they coming from and going to?

The thoughts appear out of nothing and disappear into nothing. It seems like they don’t even appear/disappear. Just one moment there are no thoughts, next moment there are thoughts, next moment no thoughts etc.

Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?

No, any attempt to make a thought appear is in itself already a thought.

Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?

No, I cannot do anything to make thoughts appear or disappear.

Can you predict the next thought?

No, any prediction is another thought.

Can you select from a range of thoughts to only have pleasant thoughts?

No, I cannot, thoughts just happen when they happen.

Do you control where attention goes?

I am unsure what attention even is. When I’m not paying attention it seems like I can direct my ‘attention’ at things. But when I look closer it now seems that attention is the boundary between the experience within it and the ‘experience’ outside of it. However, the experience outside of the boundary is not experienced. In other words, whatever is outside of the attention only comes within it when the attention shifts to it. It seems like this creates an ‘experience’ inside the attention (the part at which my eyes are pointing) and an ‘experience’ outside the attention (the part at which my eyes are not pointing). However, in reality there is only the experience itself and not the seeming boundaries of attention. These boundaries only seem to appear as a result of the rapid shifting of attention between the experience at which my eye points and the experience at which my eye does not point. So now it seems like attention does not exist?

Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?

No, I have no influence on whether thoughts appear and their content.

Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?

No.

Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

No.

It may seem like thoughts are ordered logically, but look carefully. Is there an organized sequence? Or is it just another thought that says 'these thoughts are in sequence' or 'they take content from previous thoughts' or 'one thought follows another thought'?

The second one. The logical ordering of the thoughts is based on the interpretation of the thoughts. This interpretation is in itself a thought. When the interpretation is ignored, all thoughts are completely random and have no meaning at all.

~Jaïr

[Bluejay]

No, I cannot do anything to make thoughts appear or disappear.

Yes. So if you cannot control or predict thoughts, how do you feel that you are in control of life?

Is there something 'you' control?

I am unsure what attention even is. When I’m not paying attention it seems like I can direct my ‘attention’ at things. But when I look closer it now seems that attention is the boundary between the experience within it and the ‘experience’ outside of it. However, the experience outside of the boundary is not experienced. In other words, whatever is outside of the attention only comes within it when the attention shifts to it. It seems like this creates an ‘experience’ inside the attention (the part at which my eyes are pointing) and an ‘experience’ outside the attention (the part at which my eyes are not pointing). However, in reality there is only the experience itself and not the seeming boundaries of attention. These boundaries only seem to appear as a result of the rapid shifting of attention between the experience at which my eye points and the experience at which my eye does not point. So now it seems like attention does not exist?

Yes, this is an excellent observation. The 'attention' shifts rapidly and makes it appear that many things are happening simultaneously, when in fact they are happening sequentially and memory/images/thoughts are used to create the illusion.

Here's an exercise relevant to this:

Seeing Exercise

The usual belief that 'I am this body' is usually tied in with the belief that the body as a separate item is responsible or 'doing' the senses - 'I see', 'I hear', 'I feel' and so on.

In this exercise, we'll focus on seeing.

So, close your eyes.

With eyes closed, you will now experience 'blackness'. There may be other things going on, but the specifics aren't important.

I'm going to keep things simple and use the term 'blackness' for whatever you can see while your eyes are closed.

1) With eyes closed, can you confirm that what is experienced is 'blackness' as I mentioned?

2) Is there anything else in 'seeing' other than 'blackness'?

3) Can what is witnessing the blackness be found?

4) Can a pair of eyes, an 'I' / 'me', a person be found that is witnessing the blackness? Or is there just 'blackness' to be found?

What do you find?

Can an inherent see-er be found?

Would anything that is suggested as the see-er, be anything other than a concept, idea, or thought?

[Jairi7]

Hi Henri,

1) With eyes closed, can you confirm that what is experienced is 'blackness' as I mentioned?

Yes, I can confirm. The experience is a ‘screen’ of blackness.

2) Is there anything else in 'seeing' other than 'blackness'?

No, there is nothing else, only blackness

3) Can what is witnessing the blackness be found? 4) Can a pair of eyes, an 'I' / 'me', a person be found that is witnessing the blackness? Or is there just 'blackness' to be found?

It seems like there is a ‘me’ that is witnessing the blackness. It takes a few seconds to dissect the ‘me’ into some sensations and some thought. However, in the meantime the ‘me’ has already appeared into some new experience and so it still seems like it is there, but just hiding constantly. I know that this is not the case, since every time I dissect the ‘me’, it turns out to be sensations and thought. However, it still seems like this is the case because the dissection is not quick enough and therefore there still always seems to be a ‘me’.

Can an inherent see-er be found?

No, no see-er is ever found. Only sensations and thoughts are ever found.

Would anything that is suggested as the see-er, be anything other than a concept, idea, or thought?

No, anything suggested as the see-er is just a combination of some thought and some sensations.

The usual belief that 'I am this body' is usually tied in with the belief that the body as a separate item is responsible or 'doing' the senses - 'I see', 'I hear', 'I feel' and so on.

By the way, after reading this sentence a couple of times I noticed that the sensations are not really produced by the sensory organs (eyes, ears, nose, mouth, etc.) but just happen to co-appear with the sensations of the sensory organs. As an example, the blackness appears when my eyes are closed, but that does not mean that closing the eyes produces the blackness. Rather, the blackness and eye-closing sensation just happen to consistently appear together. I had noticed this before while playing the piano, but now it was a little bit more clear. Now it occasionally seems like I don’t ‘see’ with my eyes, but instead there is just ‘seeing’. Additionally, it occasionally feels like I can ‘see’ sounds and ‘see’ smells. It feels like some of the senses kind of blend together in a way.

~Jaïr

[Bluejay]

It seems like there is a ‘me’ that is witnessing the blackness. It takes a few seconds to dissect the ‘me’ into some sensations and some thought. However, in the meantime the ‘me’ has already appeared into some new experience and so it still seems like it is there, but just hiding constantly. I know that this is not the case, since every time I dissect the ‘me’, it turns out to be sensations and thought. However, it still seems like this is the case because the dissection is not quick enough and therefore there still always seems to be a ‘me’.

Yes, it's a belief/habit, so it will keep going until it stops.

There's no need to catch it in real time. Instead, separate the senses like you're doing, and look at each piece. This repeated looking is what is often required. Even though you know it's not there, you look with fresh eyes each time.

By the way, after reading this sentence a couple of times I noticed that the sensations are not really produced by the sensory organs (eyes, ears, nose, mouth, etc.) but just happen to co-appear with the sensations of the sensory organs. As an example, the blackness appears when my eyes are closed, but that does not mean that closing the eyes produces the blackness. Rather, the blackness and eye-closing sensation just happen to consistently appear together. I had noticed this before while playing the piano, but now it was a little bit more clear. Now it occasionally seems like I don’t ‘see’ with my eyes, but instead there is just ‘seeing’. Additionally, it occasionally feels like I can ‘see’ sounds and ‘see’ smells. It feels like some of the senses kind of blend together in a way.

Yes :)

Now let's look at choice:

Palm Flipping Exercise

1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.

2. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.

Watch like a hawk.

Don't go to thoughts – examine your direct experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:

- How is the movement controlled?

- Does a thought control it?

- Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

- How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

- Who or what​ ​chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

- Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

Enjoy! :)