Back for guidance

[AwayKen127]

Is there a difference between pure experience with the label "awakened experience" and pure experience with the thought, "I am not awake"?

[Russ84]

Is there a difference between pure experience with the label "awakened experience" and pure experience with the thought, "I am not awake"?

No there is no difference

I sat with this in morning meditation and soon began to disect the breather thought, it became quite confusing when noticing there isn't an action or event of breathing in or out. Lots of sensations not connected to each other but no sensation or group of sensations that I could point to as definitely inhaling or exhaling. The confusion was I couldn't see where to look for the breather, it started to feel like the breathing and breather where just thoughts overlaying experience. I had difficulties staying with the experience and kept going back to the beliefs.

[AwayKen127]

Excellent. Shall I leave you to repeat the breathing exercise a bit more?

[Russ84]

Yes the last few exercises and guidance has seemed to help so I'll keep on the breathing for awhile. This morning's wasn't as clear as the other day.

[Russ84]

Continued to look over the last day, the morning meditation was good with brief moments of noticing the belief of a breather as a thought.

[AwayKen127]

Hi Jerry,
You say you've seen, at least at times, that "breathing" is a thought and "breather" is a thought. What things still always feel more real than any thought? Please make a list.
Jeff

[Russ84]

Hi Jeff, so far I only have sensations feeling more real than any thought. Sensations of feeling, sound, seeing, smell. It's hard to list more accurately.

When I focused on the breathing to answer this after while I was able to see that there is no breather. It seems if I focus on the sensations in the nose very closely there is a belief in a breather but if I don't focus as hard the thoughts either go away or are no longer believed. Very odd and will continue to look at that and compare why.

[Russ84]

Didn't look much yesterday, a little challenging with a fair bit of driving and family time. At times it seemed like no one was breathing but not as clear as when sitting and for the short time after. Seems when the day gets busy and attention is scattered it gets harder to distinguish thoughts from experience. Today should be quieter so will spend more time looking.

[AwayKen127]

Okay, will wait to hear back from you.

[Russ84]

Hi Jeff,
Looking over the past day I haven't found a breather. There's sensations, thoughts of breathing and of a breather but no breather can be seen/felt and the thought isn't believed. Will spend more time today looking very closely during breaks at work to see if any belief/confusion still remains.

[Russ84]

Hi Jeff, there is no one breathing. There were thoughts of it being no different to when there was a belief in a breather, so there might have been expectations of something different happening or changing.. I sat this morning trying to notice more thoughts and expectations and to keep looking at the breath, just lots of thoughts and getting caught up in some of the stories for a little while.

[AwayKen127]

Great, Jerry. I've been trying this myself lately:
Whenever you notice that you're lost in thought, consider that it's a wish to be somewhere other than Just This. Then ask, "Is there anywhere else to be? And, can the one who wishes he were somewhere else be found?" Let me know how it goes!
Jeff

[Russ84]

Thanks Jeff, enjoying this exercise. I can't find anyone who is wishing to be elsewhere, I also can't find the someone who is looking for the one who wishes to be elsewhere haha Just thoughts referencing thoughts. I'll keep doing this throughout the day as I didn't ask if there was anywhere else to be as much as the other question so will focus more on that too.

[Russ84]

Hi Jeff, noticing the desire/wish to be elsewhere more clearly. The questioning of where else to be helped see this. Still plenty of being lost in thoughts which made it easy to do the exercises throughout the day.

[Russ84]

Hi Jeff, have kept up the looking throughout the day when lost in thought and noticing no one being lost in thought. I'm on a work trip from today until Monday, going to an island but will have signal so should still be able to check in as usual