Truth over illusions!

[JonathanR]

Hi Emma

. This is absolutely right! It's not a thing! There is only this eternal now moment and everything else is a made up concept! Where is it? Nowhere! I have let go of this concept more and more but good old guilt likes to use it as a tool when it can.

No denying that these sorts of thoughts can appear!

Given this, does it matter that such thoughts do turn up?

. Ahh, I guess this is pointing to there being no separation in awareness?

What if "special" or "not special" are just about labelling, comparison, judgement . I mean, maybe the most "unspecial" thing, is "special" from a different point of view? William Blake spoke of "The world in a grain of sand", for instance.

Sometimes it's the words used, the language , that contributes to a lot to the illusion of a "self" .

. Pure awareness? The awareness that is observing the apparent experiences the apparent body is having that we have attached to as being a separate 'I'?

And so might it continue to appear to be a separate "I" except that we can look and notice that this is a thought ABOut separation

. I've believed the same thought enough times, it becomes a belief, and bang, there is the experience I have.

It's good to notice the relationship between belief and imagined experience (of an imagined self)..

. No, this is not possible for me currently.

In that case (important)...Is it possible to prevent thoughts from appearing, including the though "I"?

All the best

Jon

[EmmaNoOne]

Given this, does it matter that such thoughts do turn up?

This is a very good point. No thought means anything or has any importance unless I decide it does.

What if "special" or "not special" are just about labelling, comparison, judgement

This is another great point. Interpretation of what this means comes from supposed 'individual' perception, pertaining to the concept of a self.

And so might it continue to appear to be a separate "I" except that we can look and notice that this is a thought ABOut separation

OK, so 'I' can still consider that to be 'my' awareness, rather than simply awareness. I can see how I could still view awareness as separate and do wonder if I still see it like that? Like, 'I'm' aware and observing and still being a self, rather than total acceptance of there being no 'I'

In that case (important)...Is it possible to prevent thoughts from appearing, including the thought "I"?

I know some apparent others get to a place of having no thoughts so it must be. I guess there is a process by which you can release the belief in "I", that's what we are here right?

[JonathanR]

Hello Emma

. OK, so 'I' can still consider that to be 'my' awareness, rather than simply awareness. I can see how I could still view awareness as separate and do wonder if I still see it like that? Like, 'I'm' aware and observing and still being a self, rather than total acceptance of there being no 'I'

This is partly why I suggested the colour perception experiment.

Conventionally , it is said that there is a "subject"("me"), that "perceives" "objects".

In this scenario it is assumed that there is a "seer" "seeing" and what is "seen" . The thinking behind this is very dualistic and assumes separation.

Find your purple mobile again or use some other object that has obvious colour. Just as before, set it up so that you can relax and investigate this now.

In the seeing (of colour) what is actually found in direct experience? Is there a separate perceiver of separate objects?

Another (and really good one) is to go for a walk in nature. Take some time to do this. Don't be rushed and at least go to a park, or the countryside or seaside.

When you're there notice everything going on, all sensations , everything alive and happening, weather, grass, trees, animals, insects, sounds..the whole lot, including any thoughts and feelings that may appear too. Then, look for a line or edge in this experience where "you" end and "everything else" begins.

See how that goes.

All the best

Jon

[EmmaNoOne]

This is very helpful to have pointed out. There is still attachment to being the seer whilst 'thinking' you've spotted awareness but you're still believing you're a someone in being the seer! Wow!

I am going to bed now, apparently ;) but I will go for a walk tomorrow and do this exercise. I live by the sea and the countryside and it's when I feel most present and the least in the mind so it's great to opportunity to try this.

Thank you!

[EmmaNoOne]

OK, so I went to the beach to do this exercise and took some voice notes of what came up;

It feels like I am very much separate to everything else. Everything else seems to be one and then it feels like there is me viewing it. I am looking at cliffs, the sea, the stream, the sand. The individual stones definitely seem to have their own edges and end and then there is a space before another but it's filled with sand. The with the cliffs and the green and the caves, that all feels like one. The sea, you literally cant differentiate one speck of sea from another. But I feel like looking down at my feet, I mean that's a line, that's an edge. Interestingly, noises - it's hard to distinguish separateness with the noises and with the smells. The smell of the salt water, seaweed, from a mind perspective it doesn't feel tangible, its just happening and its just there and there are definitely no edges, its just part of what's going on. But on me ending and everything else beginning, I think the feeling I feel is confused. Even when I look at the clouds there are definitely different chunks of clouds, and there is definitely space between us, they're up there and I'm down here (apparently). I then say 'this is quite hard actually'

It feels like the water is a good example, watching the water come from fresh water as a stream, gently trickling down in to the sea, definitely no lines or edges there. But I still feel like I can see where the stream is and where it's not on the beach.

I feel very aware of being a body looking through eyes. It feels a little bit trippy actually to be trying to do this.

Just had a thought - 'it's probably all a bit much. Just done a deep dive today into where I'm tethered to my ego, and ACIM lessons and the gate at the same time'. It's not a thought I believe but one that came up as I did this exercise. 'It's a bit much' 'what if it makes me feel like I'm gonna snap'. That's a very old part of the programme in the story of Emma. Fear of 'snapping', 'going insane'. I don't have that fear now but its been a big one so not surprised that thought popped up.

There was a sound that came from birds and it echoed all around the cove I'm in, bounced around all sides, and there was no way to see what or where, it was just totally encompassing. Not separate.

Looking around again and there is a backdrop, cliffs, the sky behind it, a big tall tree, and actually, even though mind thinks they're all separate things, nothing ends. It's just coastline, sky, trees, but there is no gap or space where there is nothing. There is just always something in the space so they are all together. This feels a bit confusing. I can kind of get that there is no separation but the mind doesnt like that, no that's not possible, so its a bit confusing. Looking at it, it's like its 2d and it's all blended, but interpretation from the mind is that everything is separate.

[JonathanR]

Hi Emma

Well done for trying this exercise. That was heroic effort, especially in that it felt confusing and sometimes challenging. It has been far from unsuccessful but let's look into what you've said...

. I can kind of get that there is no separation but the mind doesn't like that, no that's not possible, so its a bit confusing. Looking at it, it's like its 2d and it's all blended, but interpretation from the mind is that everything is separate.

That's right! This is what comes across from your words. Mind interpreting things as separate.

. But I feel like looking down at my feet, I mean that's a line, that's an edge.

It's possible to imagine a line. The mind is good at that. Also, thoughts, in the form of labels, seem to describe separate entities:

. The individual stones definitely seem to have their own edges and end and then there is a space before another but it's filled with sand.

A very young child would see the colours experienced here that are described as 'individual stones' and 'sand'. But before being introduced to concepts about things being separate and separated by space, would there be perception of separatedness?

. with the cliffs and the green and the caves, that all feels like one. The sea, you literally cant differentiate one speck of sea from another

That's more like it! Really, you may find that as the next few days go by you can relax with this sort of investigation and just notice more instances where a "self" is not being perceived

[JonathanR]

Hi Emma

I sent that post by accident before finishing.

I would just have finished the last line differently. I mean that by relaxing somewhat it may be possible to just fall into noticing that "separation" is not actually real .

You also mentioned some discomfort and maybe a little bit of fear about losing self ?
Anxiety such as this can sometimes be an issue so we could look at this together? It's usually possible to address this.

All the best

Jon

[EmmaNoOne]

That's right! This is what comes across from your words. Mind interpreting things as separate.

Mind does a very good job of making illusion real and assigning meaning to the meaningless. It's quite the process to undo everything that is so firmly rooted and seemingly real!

It's possible to imagine a line. The mind is good at that. Also, thoughts, in the form of labels, seem to describe separate entities:

Yes, labels! Again, meaning assigned to the meaningless, repeated and believed to be truth! Labels are literally the king of separation!

You also mentioned some discomfort and maybe a little bit of fear about losing self ?
Anxiety such as this can sometimes be an issue so we could look at this together? It's usually possible to address this.

I believe this to just be old patterns of story coming up. My anxiety is almost non-existent nowadays, but the thoughts that come around particular sensations in the body will more often than not revert back to anxiety/panic - 'what if you go insane', 'what if you have a panic attack' etc. I know now to sit with the sensation, not label it, not get into stories from the past about what it means. So I'm actually not worried about this, which is very nice to say and mean ;)

[JonathanR]

Hi Emma

. It's quite the process to undo everything that is so firmly rooted and seemingly real

Seemingly is the word. How could we "undo" the unreal? We aim to see it for what it is.

. Labels are literally the king of separation!

Yes naming and labeling. Language plays a significant part in maintaining the illusion of "self". Especially nouns. Have you noticed this?

. believe this to just be old patterns of story coming up. My anxiety is almost non-existent nowadays, but the thoughts that come around particular sensations in the body will more often than not revert back to anxiety/panic - 'what if you go insane', 'what if you have a panic attack' etc. I know now to sit with the sensation, not label it, not get into stories from the past about what it means. So I'm actually not worried about this, which is very nice to say and mean ;)

This is great.

All the best

Jon

[EmmaNoOne]

Yes naming and labeling. Language plays a significant part in maintaining the illusion of "self". Especially nouns. Have you noticed this?

I haven't noticed this, I was thinking more of good and bad, better or worse, more than, less than. But of course, if everything is labelled as separate things, a coat, a shoe, a man, a woman, a dog, then they very much seem to be completely separate. It is this language specifically that makes is very difficult to not see separation.

Yesterday we had an 'incident' with the dog attacking a chicken. I took it to a bird rescue person and then asked my ACIM teachers what this meant as a few days before I found a dog that had escaped and was wandering around. She said, it's just all separation, there is no dog in the dog, there is no tree in a tree. It's all just one vibrational isness just being - it's all one with no separation. This just feel challenging to accept but I do want to get this!

[JonathanR]

Hi Emma

. I haven't noticed this, I was thinking more of good and bad, better or worse, more than, less than

A very good point. Yes! These kinds of comparisons really do add to the stories about everything, creating imagined polarities between things, via unexamined assumptions.

.
But of course, if everything is labelled as separate things, a coat, a shoe, a man, a woman, a dog, then they very much seem to be completely separate. It is this language specifically that makes is very difficult to not see separation.

Yeah. And language is very hard to get away from. Yes things are cast as 'separate objects' but also assumed to be unchanging and somehow permanent, in a similar way to the unexamined assumption that there is an unchanging entity or "self".

She said, it's just all separation, there is no dog in the dog, there is no tree in a tree. It's all just one vibrational isness just being - it's all one with no separation. This just feel challenging to accept but I do want to get this!

ACIM sounds useful. Here at LU we take pains to avoid telling people 'truths' lbecause we are trying to aim for each client to find their own insight . This is important. This can only happen really by each person asking questions , challenging assumptions , putting beliefs of various kinds under scrutiny, eliminating what's false.

There is a danger of ,imagining a "oneness" that may not immediately appear... The solution to this is to notice that "oneness" is a belief in some sort of experience or state.

A much more helpful way to look at this is to simply notice , or failing that, contemplate , that no "thing" is really "separate" from everything else. Separation is an imposed idea. It always was an idea and always will be. It's THINKING that is rarely challenged and as we have seen , it is enshrined within language. Don't expect to find an experience of "no-separation". Things already are not separate :-)

Don't make efforts to experience a special state of some sort. Relax and just notice what's going on . Without the language of separation, is there any?


All the best

Jon

[EmmaNoOne]

This can only happen really by each person asking questions , challenging assumptions , putting beliefs of various kinds under scrutiny, eliminating what's false.

Yes, I understand. More than happy to challenge everything I have ever believed to be true.

Don't make efforts to experience a special state of some sort. Relax and just notice what's going on. Without the language of separation, is there any?

Hmmmmmmm, this is seemingly very difficult to answer! 'Without language, is there any?' I guess, if we hadn't labelled things as different things, then no!

[JonathanR]

Hi Emma

. it's all one with no separation. This just feel challenging to accept but I do want to get this!

And you will. (Well "you" won't... but it will still become clear).

But what do you think of what I said about not seeking for an experience of oneness? Sometimes there's an expectation that no self must equal such and such an experience (and, to complicate matters, people do experience occasional moments of oneness).

This can be like wearing blinkers, fixed on a goal and not aware of the sheer space that already is all around.

Or, like fixing your heart on finding a pot of gold that's assumed to exist at the end of the rainbow. That would seem challenging! Why should life produce a special experience, instead of what already IS?

Love

Jon

[EmmaNoOne]

But what do you think of what I said about not seeking for an experience of oneness? Sometimes there's an expectation that no self must equal such and such an experience (and, to complicate matters, people do experience occasional moments of oneness).

This can be like wearing blinkers, fixed on a goal and not aware of the sheer space that already is all around.

This is so interesting because two apparent separate ;) people have told me they have briefly experienced oneness today! One, my sister who is doing the same work as me, and the other in my support bubble. By not seeking, do you mean, not having any expectations of what that will be like/when? When in fact it's already here and the purpose is to see what is?

[JonathanR]

Hi Emma

. This is so interesting because two apparent separate ;) people have told me they have briefly experienced oneness today! One, my sister who is doing the same work as me, and the other in my support bubble.

Yes. People do report this and other kinds of spiritual experiences too. And these seem very exciting. But it is very important to stick to your own findings based on the evidence of your own direct experience. Do you see why?

. By not seeking, do you mean, not having any expectations of what that will be like/when? When in fact it's already here and the purpose is to see what is?

I mean, look, and find out if there is some expectation of arriving at a kind of state, or experience of 'no self' or of 'no separation'?

It is very common to imagine that these must amount to some sort of 'experience that is experienced'.

But you hint at something here.. Do you notice that what is experienced right now is already being experienced? Seeing, hearing, the other senses and even the turning up of thoughts .. already here?

Does a 'self' experience all these (that happen already) or is it all happening directly anyway?

All best,

Jon