Keeping It Simple

[gbeene]

Now, there are moments that I can see how someone would describe it as a witness, but I can't experience it like that. It's more like sensations at different places. The sensations are never happening at the same time though.

I understand this intellectually in the limited capacity I can, but haven't seen it yet.

Okay, cool. Feel free to play around with it, especially the whole can't do it/helpless pattern. You can bring that up by saying the opposite, which is: I can do it / I'm not helpless. Then you just sit with whatever comes up until the charge is gone (this may take days, weeks, months).

I think I'm gonna get pretty boring.

When doing this, are you listening for the answer from your body or from thoughts? You want to ask the question, and then tune into your body and listen.

And during this inquiry and meditation, are you doing any of it? This chasing the looker thing, is there a doer of it? Try 'letting go' during the meditation. Is someone making the meditation happen?

In all of this 'chasing', have you found the self?

When you look and you find nothing, it may be helpful to rest in the not finding or not knowing, then after a while say "There's nothing here," and rest in that 'space'.

I probably need to go back and redo a bunch of what we've done. I mostly feel confused. There are a lot of avenues to search and I am struggling with doubt while none of them click. I'm not sure I even have a good grasp about what a sense of self feels like at this point, if I'm finding it, if Im feeling it, am I doing it. It feels like there's a doer. It feels like Im doing it. It feels bad that that feels like the "wrong" answer.

[Bluejay]

I think I'm gonna get pretty boring.

Do you mean you're going to get bored?

I probably need to go back and redo a bunch of what we've done. I mostly feel confused. There are a lot of avenues to search and I am struggling with doubt while none of them click. I'm not sure I even have a good grasp about what a sense of self feels like at this point, if I'm finding it, if Im feeling it, am I doing it. It feels like there's a doer. It feels like Im doing it. It feels bad that that feels like the "wrong" answer.

Sounds like you're trying to understand with your mind. This confusion is a good sign.

Rest in this confusion. Who is it that is trying to understand?

What makes this doubt or confusion yours to fix?

Who or what is not sure?

Who or what is fascinated by the doubt thought?

Instead of trying to understand, look at the sensation/feeling that comes before the doubt. That feeling is being avoided by going into thinking and trying to understand this. Feel and sit with that feeling instead.

Feel bad. Feel like a doer. Feel the trying to get it. Feel the confusion. And feel everything else that is beneath that. Stuff like despair, hopelessness, frustration, anger, etc.

Does this make sense?

[gbeene]

Do you mean you're going to get bored?

This morning this mostly seems self deprecating and not useful :)

Sounds like you're trying to understand with your mind. This confusion is a good sign.

Rest in this confusion. Who is it that is trying to understand?

What makes this doubt or confusion yours to fix?

Who or what is not sure?

Who or what is fascinated by the doubt thought?

Instead of trying to understand, look at the sensation/feeling that comes before the doubt. That feeling is being avoided by going into thinking and trying to understand this. Feel and sit with that feeling instead.

Feel bad. Feel like a doer. Feel the trying to get it. Feel the confusion. And feel everything else that is beneath that. Stuff like despair, hopelessness, frustration, anger, etc.

Does this make sense?

This all makes sense. This morning when I say I said let's slow down, let's be deliberate, I don't need to jump immediately from one seeming looker/self location to the next. I sat and let it come up where it wanted to, and then deliberately watched that space for a while to see if it could make decisions, move, affect the current experience... things like eye sensations, visual blackness, chest sensations, the weird nebulous "inside head" feeling.

Had some success seeing things arise as thoughts while doing this, even just "ok where's the sense of self" came up as a thought that seemed to lead to another one of these physical sensations.

I'll keep looking and practicing patience, now I'm kind of hoping another doubt-storm arises so I can catch it in the act, so to speak. :)


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[Bluejay]

Okay, great. Do you want to take another day or two to explore for yourself, or do you want us to continue?

[gbeene]

Lemme noodle on this for a day and I'll come back after tomorrows AM sit with an update. Thanks for the patience :)


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[Bluejay]

No problem. Enjoy :)

[gbeene]

Morning!

Trying to keep things simple and at a sensate level. Watched my throat area today, which interestingly had gone unnoticed so far. Resistance arose and distracting thoughts crowded in but were seen as such.

Looked for a boundary between throat sensations and chest tightness. Looked for where the looking was coming from, found only sensations, let the sensations slowly show that they couldn't be the things taking action, looking, or deciding.

Looking frequently takes blackness/visual sensation as refuge, sensations in the eyes, sensations in the throat. Or movement between all of them.

I kind of didn't have a clear sense of what questions to be asking besides just watching to see where sensations and thoughts seemed to be connecting and just trying to watch simply.


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[Bluejay]

Looking frequently takes blackness/visual sensation as refuge, sensations in the eyes, sensations in the throat. Or movement between all of them.

I kind of didn't have a clear sense of what questions to be asking besides just watching to see where sensations and thoughts seemed to be connecting and just trying to watch simply.

Can you give me an example of what happens in more detail that you would like more clarity on? What is the sequence of events?

You could share 3-5 sentences on what happens and I can share what and how you could explore.

[gbeene]

Sure, thanks. Wasn't really sure what to post.

I'll take the throat thing.

I was looking at "fear/anxiety" (noticed chest sensations, noticed the mental story, did not notice the cause/source or what it was saying or asking for)

Noticed a flash of something, movement, identification, around my throat. Looked at my throat to see if I could "is that it?" The sensations.

A thought and emotion train arose around confusion and doubt. Like it felt as if investigating the throat wouldn't be useful. Or doubt that something so mundane could get me farther along. Just noted that it was a thought and tried to return to sensations.

Throat tightness, head tightness, visual field, something between my throat and my chest, all were temporary refuges for the looker / sense of self, kinda chased it around. Tried thinking about how you can't really chase it around and to see if I could just like, not.

Eventually just moved to a more general watching of sensations to see what came up next.


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[Bluejay]

Thank you. This is helpful :)

The main thing is to see this whole thing as lego blocks. We are working with see, hear, feel, smell, taste, thought. When there is a feeling of "I", there is always at least two of these blocks in play (usually thought with something else).

So the key is to separate the senses and look at each one.

I was looking at "fear/anxiety" (noticed chest sensations, noticed the mental story, did not notice the cause/source or what it was saying or asking for)

First to help you do this, see if you can slow everything down. Stay with what is happening and observe the legos in play.

So fear/anxiety here has mental story and sensations, as you describe it. You would break this down and inquire the following (assuming you're inquiring on I/me and not fear itself):

- The thought "I am afraid", is that 'I'?
- The thought/words 'fear', is that 'I'?
- The sensations, is that 'I'?

The mental story you would need to slow down and look at how it is presented. Are stories usually auditory for you or visual, or both? Whichever it is, you break it down. Auditory you break down into "The words X, is that "I"? and visual you break down into "The image X, is that "I"?

Noticed a flash of something, movement, identification, around my throat. Looked at my throat to see if I could "is that it?" The sensations.

This could be more specific. Thought likes to make vague statements. Find out what the components of the identification are, and then break them apart and find out which of the components is 'I' or contains an 'I' and so on.

The question is always: Where is this so called 'I'?

It's like you're in your closet looking for a pair of socks. You find shoes, hats, shirts, belts. You simply look at each one and move on to the next. Where are the socks?

Throat tightness, head tightness, visual field, something between my throat and my chest, all were temporary refuges for the looker / sense of self, kinda chased it around. Tried thinking about how you can't really chase it around and to see if I could just like, not.

Eventually just moved to a more general watching of sensations to see what came up next.

Here find out what components make up the watcher/looker. If there's a watching of sensations, maybe you feel like the looker is somewhere in the head, so you would go:

- The sensations in the head, is that the looker?
- The image of the looker, is that the looker?
- The voice saying "The looker is in the head", is that the looker?

If anything is at all confusing or unclear, ask away :)

This is very simple when broken down. We have 5 physical senses + thought. If things begin seeming vague, complex, or confusing, that's thought.

[gbeene]

Hey, still working through your last post. My thoughts are definitely primarily audio/hearing based, so that is a good pointer as I think I wasn't really seeing the "voice" as a thought, somehow. Or I was inconsistently seeing it as such. There's definitely a lot to explore there, and keeping things slow and methodical is key as you say.

I will have more questions tomorrow, I am sure - hope you are having a good weekend.

[Bluejay]

Hey, still working through your last post. My thoughts are definitely primarily audio/hearing based, so that is a good pointer as I think I wasn't really seeing the "voice" as a thought, somehow. Or I was inconsistently seeing it as such. There's definitely a lot to explore there, and keeping things slow and methodical is key as you say.

Yup, slow and steady with a dose of fresh curiosity.

I will have more questions tomorrow, I am sure - hope you are having a good weekend.

You too! All good here :)

Thanks for the update!

[gbeene]

Thank you. This is helpful :)

The main thing is to see this whole thing as lego blocks. We are working with see, hear, feel, smell, taste, thought. When there is a feeling of "I", there is always at least two of these blocks in play (usually thought with something else).

So the key is to separate the senses and look at each one.

First to help you do this, see if you can slow everything down. Stay with what is happening and observe the legos in play.

So fear/anxiety here has mental story and sensations, as you describe it. You would break this down and inquire the following (assuming you're inquiring on I/me and not fear itself):

- The thought "I am afraid", is that 'I'?
- The thought/words 'fear', is that 'I'?
- The sensations, is that 'I'?

The mental story you would need to slow down and look at how it is presented. Are stories usually auditory for you or visual, or both? Whichever it is, you break it down. Auditory you break down into "The words X, is that "I"? and visual you break down into "The image X, is that "I"?

This could be more specific. Thought likes to make vague statements. Find out what the components of the identification are, and then break them apart and find out which of the components is 'I' or contains an 'I' and so on.

The question is always: Where is this so called 'I'?

It's like you're in your closet looking for a pair of socks. You find shoes, hats, shirts, belts. You simply look at each one and move on to the next. Where are the socks?

Here find out what components make up the watcher/looker. If there's a watching of sensations, maybe you feel like the looker is somewhere in the head, so you would go:

- The sensations in the head, is that the looker?
- The image of the looker, is that the looker?
- The voice saying "The looker is in the head", is that the looker?

If anything is at all confusing or unclear, ask away :)

This is very simple when broken down. We have 5 physical senses + thought. If things begin seeming vague, complex, or confusing, that's thought.

Ok, here's how investigation has been going.

While formally sitting or during the day, I investigate the field of sensations that make up my body. Occasionally I investigate the visual field or hearing if those arise naturally.

Sometimes I am asking, where is the sense of self right now? And if anything comes up I try to break it into the separate parts.

While looking at these long enough, I can eventually get a felt sense of the object as object to arise. Usually the thought "Could this object take action/make decisions/"drive"" seems to be helpful in separating the "I" sense from it. Or, sometimes the I sense just disappears from it. This happens a lot when investigating eyeballs, which seem to be a sticky recurring location for self identification.

I realized I haven't quite been looking at thoughts the way I thought I was. I think there was a constant layer of identification there. I have a hard time explaining it, but doing the hand flipping exercise, it seems more obvious in a felt way that there's not a controller. And that there can be the sensations of hand and thoughts and observation happening but none of those are driving. This feels more normal than I thought it would.

"I" comes up as chest sensations, eyeball sensations, a tension in the head and neck.

"I am aware" is increased focus on visual sensation, a tension of my ears, hearing sensations.

I noticed at the end of tonight's sit that there was a nice little pocket of I around my face sensations and the mental image of my face. I will keep looking there.

Is this the right direction? Or do you see blind spots here I am missing?


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[Bluejay]

Sometimes I am asking, where is the sense of self right now? And if anything comes up I try to break it into the separate parts.

It can be helpful to say 'me, me, me' or 'I, I, I'.

This happens a lot when investigating eyeballs, which seem to be a sticky recurring location for self identification.

So what is the experience of 'eyeballs' in direct experience?

I realized I haven't quite been looking at thoughts the way I thought I was. I think there was a constant layer of identification there. I have a hard time explaining it, but doing the hand flipping exercise, it seems more obvious in a felt way that there's not a controller. And that there can be the sensations of hand and thoughts and observation happening but none of those are driving. This feels more normal than I thought it would.

Yes, good. Can you explain what you did before and what you do now? What is the difference?

"I" comes up as chest sensations, eyeball sensations, a tension in the head and neck.

"I am aware" is increased focus on visual sensation, a tension of my ears, hearing sensations.

Have you noticed that "I" sensations come up where 'you' assume the "I" to be? In other words, are the sensations there because there is an I there, or are they there because focus is there?

Same with "I am aware" -- focus goes to seeing and hearing, which the "I" is assumed to be doing.

I noticed at the end of tonight's sit that there was a nice little pocket of I around my face sensations and the mental image of my face. I will keep looking there.

Is this the right direction? Or do you see blind spots here I am missing?

I feel like it would be worthwhile to turn the inquiry around.

What is doing all this inquiry?

Is there an inquirer? What does it look like? Does it wear a hat? What color is it? Shape?

Are 'you' in control of it?

Remember, when searching for the "I", the lack of an answer is the answer.

[gbeene]

It can be helpful to say 'me, me, me' or 'I, I, I'.

I'll try this today :)

So what is the experience of 'eyeballs' in direct experience?

It's various sensations. I used eyeballs here intending that but to be specific it's tightness, pressure, a sense of "location" (thought?) and "eyeballs" the thought. Or "the eyeballs are seeing this"

Yes, good. Can you explain what you did before and what you do now? What is the difference?

I was downplaying the audio aspect of my thoughts, and so leaving a fair bit of them out of actual investigation. Audio thoughts were driving the sense of a narrator, especially when thinking of how to describe experience in these posts, but being somehow seen as separate from the thoughts I was investigating.

Have you noticed that "I" sensations come up where 'you' assume the "I" to be? In other words, are the sensations there because there is an I there, or are they there because focus is there?

Same with "I am aware" -- focus goes to seeing and hearing, which the "I" is assumed to be doing.

I have noticed this once or twice naturally but it hasn't fully clicked, for sure. I thought it once as "the looking for the I creates the I where it looks"

I feel like it would be worthwhile to turn the inquiry around.

What is doing all this inquiry?

Is there an inquirer? What does it look like? Does it wear a hat? What color is it? Shape?

Are 'you' in control of it?

Remember, when searching for the "I", the lack of an answer is the answer.

I'll do this today. Is this similar to looking for the looker or different in some way? I have been doing that.


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