What's the nature of myself?

[Duka444]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I understand that there is no separate self as an entity separated from awareness. The separate self is an activity of consciousness as define by Rupert Spira, not an entity. Therefore, when it is clear seen as an activity, I may feel liberated from the suffering of still believing to be a separate self. That's what I need help with.

What are you looking for at LU?
To help me in my journey to experientially embody awareness. I conceptually understand that I am awareness or consciousness, however I do not experience it yet. I still trapped in believing to be a separate self, even though I know conceptually that I am not it.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
To give me some pointers that can help me realize my True Self, as being Awareness or Consciousness. I am tired of knowing all of this conceptually but cannot experientially be awareness. I have tried for over 10 years through Eckart Tolle, Mooji, Ruper Spira, Francis Fucile, Nargis Alegria, and lately through Angelo DiLullo.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I have been doing a lot of seeking and inquiring through watching a lot of videos from different teachers that I mention on my previous answer. I have read the Power of Now, 2 or 3 books from Ruper Spira and now I am reading Dr. Angelo DiLullo's book (Awake- It's your turn). I do not do any formal meditation practice. Mostly daily self inquiry questions from videos and books that I am reading.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10

[warissem]

Good evening

I am glad to accompany you during the investigation of seeing through the illusion of a separate self.
There are some agreements to engage with :

Check here in the forum every day or at least once per 2 days. This is important to take the flow of looking. If you are not OK with this, I will invite another guide for you.

Put aside all what you know about advaita, spirituality, oneness or whatever around this topic.
Read the book Gateless Gate Crashers available on this forum and practice as it is given to you.

Read the disclaimer text and learn how to use the quote function (instructions are given on this forum).

Let me know when we can give a go.

best wishes
Warissem

[Duka444]

Good evening. Thanks for reaching out to me. Do I have to finish reading the book Gateless Gate Crashers before we can continue talking? Or can I exchange messages with you while reading the book? Please let me know when you are able to. Take care.

[warissem]

Good morning

Yes, you can read the book during this investigation.

Now, I want to know about your expectations about this process. Here are the questions.

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Give an answer to each question separately. Use the quote function to select the question.

best wishes
Warissem

[Duka444]

Good morning

Yes, you can read the book during this investigation.

Now, I want to know about your expectations about this process. Here are the questions.

How will life change?
I expect life to be more harmonious, balanced than is right now for me. I don't expect things to be perfect, and I know challenges will continue to come on daily basis. Life will continue to unfold as it supposed to be and I know I don't have any control over that.
How will you change?
I expect to change how I will respond to challenges that will present to me on daily basis. I expect to respond to events appearing on the present moment with no resistance. I expect not to belief in a separate self or separate doer, who is doing those things. I expect to be less anxious about life, with less fear or no fear about death, or what will happen to my body/soul when this body dies. I will be able to fully experience awareness as my true self, experientially, not conceptually.
What will be different?
I expect not to have fear of death when I experience awakening or realization. I expect to be calmer, less anxious, and enjoy life. I want to experience what I conceptually understand about awareness, my true self.
What is missing?
Right now peace is missing, joy and happiness are missing because I have not fully realized the nature of my true/essential self. I can understand that I am awareness, however I don't experience it yet. I know this conceptually, but not experientially yet. I know that awareness has no dimension, and cannot be experienced objectively. I know that, I understand that...but I have not experientially realized that I am awareness.

Take care,
Duka444

[warissem]

Good morning

Life won’t change knowing that there is no separate self in the first place. it is as you said it :

Life will continue to unfold as it supposed to be and I know I don't have any control over that.

About "how will you change" expectations : some of them are realistic, others are not. In this LU forum, we show you to see through the belief of a separate self. Actions and reactions will continue to happen as it is usually. When you read some of the threads here, you will see what happens when there is SEEING or going through the gate. It differs from a thread to another depending of past experiences and all conditionings. The best thing to do is to let aside your expectations and just be aware of what is unfolding during this process.

Right now peace is missing, joy and happiness are missing

What are your feelings right now ? let me know about this.

because I have not fully realized the nature of my true/essential self.

There are many of your neighborhood who are in peace and joyful and they have not realized their true nature. Do you see that?

I can understand that I am awareness, however I don't experience it yet. I know this conceptually, but not experientially yet. I know that awareness has no dimension, and cannot be experienced objectively. I know that, I understand that...but I have not experientially realized that I am awareness.

Right now, there is awareness of these words and there is an understanding occurring automatically : do you agree with that?

If it is a YES, it means that you are already experiencing awareness or awareness is experiencing itself. The problem is that you believe that you are a petty person, a separate entity seeking awareness. Reality is : awareness is disguised as this separate entity playing a game which is called "seeking awareness". do you see that?

NB : select one question at a time then push the quote function button then give your answer.

Best for you

[Duka444]

The problem is that you believe that you are a petty person, a separate entity seeking awareness. Reality is : awareness is disguised as this separate entity playing a game which is called "seeking awareness". do you see that?

Yes, I see that. However, I am not able yet to be free of believing that I am a separate self. Is this statement that I just made another thought? Is it a way the separate self is making sure it continues to exist? Maybe it is...I have a sense it is...let me know what you see here...thanks.

[warissem]

Good evening

Learn how to use the quote function here : it is important to differentiate between the questions and the answers. It is also important to look at each question and give a separate answer to it. Don't neglect any question even if it looks childish.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

Yes, I see that. However, I am not able yet to be free of believing that I am a separate self. Is this statement that I just made another thought? Is it a way the separate self is making sure it continues to exist? Maybe it is...I have a sense it is...let me know what you see here...thanks.

No, do not replace a belief for another belief. You need to SEE the truth of non existing separate entity in direct experience.

During our dialog, I'll give questions (pointers) and exercises to practice. Answers must be SEEN after having looked at the pointers. Direct experience is seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching or sensations. Thoughts come and go but we are not interested in their content.
Example : what is the color of the sky?
There are 2 ways of answering :
1. Remember the last time you have looked at the sky and give the answer
OR
2. Open the window, look at the sky and SEE its color the give the answer in conformity to what is seen. This is Looking at direct experience and it is the clue of giving the answers to my questions.

Is looking at direct experience clear for you ?

best for you

[warissem]

Addendum to the last post :

There are still some questions you have neglected :

What are your feelings right now ? let me know about this.

There are many of your neighborhood who are in peace and joyful and they have not realized their true nature. Do you see that?

Right now, there is awareness of these words and there is an understanding occurring automatically : do you agree with that?

Warissem

[Duka444]

Is looking at direct experience clear for you ?

Yes, it's more clear for me now. I will try to use your suggestions when answering future questions.

What are your feelings right now ? let me know about this.

I'm feeling tension in my body, specially on my chest and neck. I am experiencing fear when a thought of not being a separate self arises.

There are many of your neighborhood who are in peace and joyful and they have not realized their true nature. Do you see that?

Yes, I see that. But the way they perceive or experience peace, joy or happiness is different from me. I am not happy now because I have not SEEN yet that the separate self does not exist.

Right now, there is awareness of these words and there is an understanding occurring automatically : do you agree with that?

Yes, I agree with that. But that seems not be enough for me to experience peace. I still feel trapped in feeling that I am a separate self, even though conceptually I know that my true and essential self is awareness or knowing. I know that, but what I am experiencing is different. I am still not SEEN that the separate self does not exist...that's my current experience.

[warissem]

Hi Duka

I'm feeling tension in my body, specially on my chest and neck.

Can you welcome this energy and see really what is there other than a sensation.

I am experiencing fear when a thought of not being a separate self arises.

How does the fear is expressed in the body? What is its location ?

I invite you to look at this to deal with fear
https://www.google.com/search?q=fear+Ilona+Ciunate

I am not happy now because I have not SEEN yet that the separate self does not exist.

Seeing through the belief of a separate self does not mean to be always happy.

Yes, I agree with that. But that seems not be enough for me to experience peace. I still feel trapped in feeling that I am a separate self, even though conceptually I know that my true and essential self is awareness or knowing. I know that, but what I am experiencing is different. I am still not SEEN that the separate self does not exist...that's my current experience.

We are here to make you see through the belief, no worry.

Here is an investigation of the body to practice several times during some days :

Sit with eyes closed for about 15 minutes.
Paying attention only to the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images:

Can it be known how tall the body is?
Does the body have a weight or volume?
In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?
Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

Is there an inside or an outside?
If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly?
If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?
What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

Look very carefully, especially with the last question. Take your time, don’t rush. You can look several times during the day while doing other things (like washing hands, showering, having a short break from work, walking, etc) before replying.

Best wishes

[Duka444]

Can you welcome this energy and see really what is there other than a sensation.

Yes, I am able to welcome the energy, specially after I watched the video about fear suggested by you.

How does the fear is expressed in the body? What is its location ?

The fear is expressed more intense on my chest, however I can feel sensations of tension in several parts of the body. However, I had tremendous experience watching the video about fear suggested. It was nice to see and experience fear from another perspective as suggested in the video. I never thought about having a relationship with fear as suggested in the video. I watched twice and cried both times in the middle of the meditation. It was an eye opening for me to see fear like that.

Seeing through the belief of a separate self does not mean to be always happy.

I agree and totally understand that. I do not expect to be always happy, when realization of not being a separate self happens here.

What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

Look very carefully, especially with the last question. Take your time, don’t rush. You can look several times during the day while doing other things (like washing hands, showering, having a short break from work, walking, etc)

I was able to do the exercise and it's been helping me so far, to really experience the sensations of the body without labeling it by thought.

[warissem]

Good morning

Yes, I am able to welcome the energy, specially after I watched the video about fear suggested by you.

Great.

The fear is expressed more intense on my chest, however I can feel sensations of tension in several parts of the body.

When you look at direct experience, is there fear, tension or are there only sensations labeled “fear”, “tension”?

However, I had tremendous experience watching the video about fear suggested. It was nice to see and experience fear from another perspective as suggested in the video. I never thought about having a relationship with fear as suggested in the video. I watched twice and cried both times in the middle of the meditation. It was an eye opening for me to see fear like that.

This perspective is valuable to all feelings and emotions.

I was able to do the exercise and it's been helping me so far, to really experience the sensations of the body without labeling it by thought.

Are they sensations OF the body or sensations AS the body ?

I invite you to go back to the investigation of the body : look at each pointer (question) and give a separate answer to ALL the questions. It is important to SEE the answers.

Waiting for your insights

[Duka444]

When you look at direct experience, is there fear, tension or are there only sensations labeled “fear”, “tension”?

Yes, I agree with you...when I just look at direct experience I only experience sensations...the labels come after...thanks for helping me see that.

Are they sensations OF the body or sensations AS the body ?

I experience sensations AS the body...however I was labeling it as sensations OF the body...thanks for the pointer...I see it now.

Paying attention only to the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images:

Can it be known how tall the body is?

No, there is no experience about how tall the body is.

Does the body have a weight or volume?

No, I cannot experience the body weight or volume.

In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

No, in my direct experience the body is not experienced a having a shape or form.

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?

Not, I did not experience an boundary between the body and the clothing.

Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

No, I did not experience that.

Is there an inside or an outside?

No. I did not experience anything being inside or outside...it was only one experience without the difference of being inside or outside.

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?

In my direct experience it referred to the raw sensations.

[warissem]

Hi Duka

Wonderful, you have done good observations here. How do you feel when you see that the body is only sensations when eyes are closed + colors and shapes when eyes are open?

Here is a thought exercise. Sit quietly for about 30 minutes and notice the arising thoughts. Just let them appear as they appear. Try your best to COMPLETELY ignore what they are saying and just notice how they appear without you doing anything at all.

Where are they coming from and going to?
Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?
Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?
Can you predict your next thought?
Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?
Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?
Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?
Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

Give a separate answer to each question.

Best for you