There is nothing

[CrystalBeach]

Hello again

What could be suffering?

The what is not found it's a collection of sensations in the body.

What is the ego? Where is the feeler of feelings?

The ego feels like the identity or story of the person, it's clearly a story but still it experiences sensations.

Is this "outcome" just another thought?

Yes the outcome is another thought, it's a very enticing thought that getting something will change the experience.

So, attachment = resistance? And resistance = a set of sensations?

yes attachment is resistance to what is

Do these sensations happen by themselves?

yes

To whom or what are sensations a problem?

Something seems to be there that sees the sensations as a problem, that's the feeling. When i look for who or what, nothing is really found, the attention bounces between thoughts and sensations.

What is the story being told when these sensations are being felt?

The story being told is that these sensations shouldn't be there, or that something should be done to get rid of them. That having these sensations means there is something to fix or change.

What is the response to these sensations?

The response is a lot of thinking, how to get rid of them. Well at times the respsonse is just relax and be curious about the sensations, let them just be until they subside. Sometimes when looked at, it seems they are gone almost instantaneasouly and then if there is resistance and trying to get rid of or fix them, they come up again and again.
thank you
jc

[Dion]

HI Jana :)

Just a reminder. The answering of these questions doesn't mean anything to me. They are to draw your attention to what IS.
Just trying to "get it right" is a step in the wrong direction. I get the feeling you're trying to pass a test. This guiding thing is all only to draw attention to the reality of existence. Nothing will change just by saying the "right" answers.
Direct looking only, please. Everything else is a waste of time.

When you say, "there's nothing here", "there's no doer", and then "but it doesn't relieve the suffering".
Who or what needs the suffering to stop? Please examine this.

it's a collection of sensations in the body.

"it's a collection..." What is this "it"?

Please be very precise with your wording.

it's clearly a story but still it experiences sensations

Really? A story experiences sensations?
Rubbish. Don't tell me what you imagine. Only what you can perceive.

yes attachment is resistance to what is

No, it isn't. I was guided once, and I've tried the same half-assed responses in moments of desperation, too. ;)
Hang in there. Regather your composure, calm yourself, and just look.
If you can't, just relax, and wait until you can.

When i look for who or what, nothing is really found, the attention bounces between thoughts and sensations.

Yes, that's right. That is direct experience.

The story being told is that these sensations shouldn't be there, or that something should be done to get rid of them. That having these sensations means there is something to fix or change.

Yes. That is direct experience. Well done.
What is saying that things need to change?
Does anything need to change? For who? For what?

[CrystalBeach]

Dion,

Yes sometimes I feel like I"m trying to get something right, especially when I sit down to write about it. Many parts of the day, when I stop and notice it is just an experience of sensations and thoughts.

it's a collection..." What is this "it"?

When looking there is not an it to be found. There are sensations and thoughts and one thought leads to another.

Yesterday I focused on looking at direct experience, when the sensations where difficult (contraction in the chest) and when the sensations had a more open feeling and doing something pleasant. This is what happened.

Open feeling .. relaxed.
When eating a piece of chocolate, the question came up- why do I like chocolate, then what chose chocolate ( i tried to rephrase it into what I thought you would ask). I tried to find a memory of when I first knew I prefered chocolate over vanilla, couldn't find anything there and it's a sense of awe and wonder. I couldn't find the reason or the person or the thing that would choose chocolate.

Contracted - trying to figure something out etc..
Sitting by the pool and noticed a real heavy contracted feeling in my chest and the thoughts, I shouldn't be here, I need to move, I need to find another consulting gig etc.. basically thoughts about wanting things to be different.
I asked what wants it to be different, does anything need to change. The experience felt like searching frantically in the dark and when asking who or what - then there were just tears for awhile.. and then sleep. Today writing this again and asking who or what the start of tears..but stopping.
jana

[CrystalBeach]

Dion,

Today it was so clear that thoughts arising have nothing to do with reality. The thought of doing something later in the day has nothing to do with what's actually here right now. Planning to have a meal later, kind of seems logical or useful, but other thoughts that came up are just random and strange. I know over and over you have said thoughts just arise and yes I agree but it seems like such a different recognition that they are random or silly or useless.

I've been asking who and what for everything and it's a futile searching feeling. And when I look at that sad or desperate feeling it relaxes after awhile. There's waves of feeling like something is going to be lost even though it's not there.

jana

[Dion]

Hi Jana :)

Today it was so clear that thoughts arising have nothing to do with reality.... it seems like such a different recognition that they are random or silly or useless.

Yes, very good. Nice observation ;)

About the feelings of contraction in the chest, etc. Unwanted feelings.
Unwanted by what?
Also, observe the reaction to the experience, and see what the story/explanation is of what that experience means. There'll be a story there playing quietly in the background about the experience and whether it's desirable or not.
The story itself isn't an expression of truth. It's the application of meaning and value, when in fact there is none. The experience itself means nothing at all.
The experience itself isn't as important as the response/reaction to the experience.
What is the response? Relax and observe the response to the experience.

[CrystalBeach]

Hi again

Unwanted by what?

The "what" isn't anything that can be found in direct experience.

Yes there is a story in the background (sometimes what feels like the foreground) that doesn't want the experience and wants to push away or judge the reaction.

What is the response? Relax and observe the response to the experience.

Today the response was to distract from those unwanted feelings, going to the refrigerator or texting someone. OR thinking and trying to figure out a solution that would make the feelings go away. Other times I can stop and look at the feelings and they rise and fall like a wave.
thank you
jana

[Dion]

HI Jana :)

Let's recap.

Is there any direct experiential evidence of a perceiver/witness?

Describe what you can perceive regarding thoughts and feelings.

[CrystalBeach]

Hi Dion,

Is there any direct experiential evidence of a perceiver/witness?

No there is not evidence of a witness or perceiver

Describe what you can perceive regarding thoughts and feelings.

Thoughts just arise, no indication of the next thought, or any evidence that thoughts arising are true. Thoughts are just like another sense.. there is just hearing, there is just thinking. Looking at thoughts they are always in the past or future, never right now, and they don't have anything to do with reality in this moment.

I "felt" sad for a bit today, when looking at this, it's a a sensation in the chest area. The thought labeled it sadness but when looking it was a sensation in the chest and a story about being sad. The same with emotions that feel good, I was planning a trip with a friend and thoughts and images appeared about the future trip and it was associated with a happy feeling. But that happy feeling is also a sensation and a story about going on the trip being fun.

jana

[Dion]

HI :)

So, there is no perceiver. No witness.
I like what you said about thoughts being like another sense.

What is communicating with "Dion", "the guide".
What responds? What talks of sensations in the chest?
What is describing all of this?
What is Jana?

[CrystalBeach]

Hi Dion,

What is communicating with "Dion", "the guide".
What responds? What talks of sensations in the chest?
What is describing all of this?
What is Jana?

I don't know!! It's all a big mystery, it feels like thoughts are in and around my head, near my eyes. But nothing can be exactly found or pinpointed. I can't explain what is happening, it's JUST happening. It all feels unknown and unexplainable when looking at direct experience. It's just this.

I will be traveling to my mom's this weekend, my cell service and the internet is spotty, so answers may be slow.
jana

[Dion]

Hi :)

That's OK. Just respond when you can.

Answering those previous questions with "I don't know", isn't exactly what I was looking for. I want you to describe what you see.

So the whole point of this guiding and direct looking is that we look closely at what Reality really is experientially, and place that in a position of importance, where stories and ideas are recognised as being empty and inevitably unable to touch the truth.

So, based on your looking at what is, what is Jana?

Who am I speaking to in this guiding?
Please describe what is speaking.

What labels certain feelings as unwanted/undesirable?
What tries to avoid unwanted feelings?

[CrystalBeach]

Hello Dion,

Apologies for the so slow response, spent some time in nature, with family and friends.

So, based on your looking at what is, what is Jana?

When looking there is a narrative that arises, one thought then another thought. But nothing that can be Jana, Jana can't be found. Everything points to sensations, there are still feelings, emotions and beliefs, but those are thoughts with a story attached.

Who am I speaking to in this guiding?

In looking there is not a who, to be found

Please describe what is speaking.

Narrative arises in what appear to be the area of the head. When looking at this, the narrative or stream of thoughts starts out with questions and looking for what who is speaking, then noticing the thoughts switched to a tension under the shoulder, then thoughts about dinner, then back to thoughts about what is speaking.

Jana

[Dion]

HI :)

Everything points to sensations

Please describe what is meant here, in more detail.

Narrative arises in what appear to be the area of the head.

It appears to be the location of the head. Please take some time and look carefully for the location of the arising of thoughts. Is it in the head?

[CrystalBeach]

hello

Everything points to sensations
Please describe what is meant here, in more detail.

Everything is just happening or taking place.
Petting the dog for example, there is not a recollection of, I'm going to pet the dog, just the sensation of the skin the fur and the boundary is blurry.
Having a conversation - words just tumble out of the mouth. Even trying to plan what to say - thoughts arise, about something to ask or to relay and those words may come out and then a few more that just seem to appear.
Smelling - nothing decided to smell ocean, sea salt, there's just a scent in the area and the thoughts identify and label it "summer, ocean, fun".
Actions - my body was suddenly on this seat with fingers on these keys - that just happened at 10:00, not at 6:00 pm yesterday when there was a thought about answering, but it is happening now.

Please take some time and look carefully for the location of the arising of thoughts. Is it in the head?

My experience is, trying to think to find the location of thoughts and there is a physical sensation of tension or tightening around my forehead, but the thought isn't located there, it's a sensation of tightness and warmth.
jana

[Dion]

Hi Jana :)

Very nice!

1- The seer
2- The seen
3- Seeing

Which of the above actually exist?