Directly experiencing the free-fall of the unknown

[vinceschubert]

'morning Jen, Ok, this (cup exercise) is worth staying with until we recognize a couple of things.
Now, I'm not saying that this is an absolute reality. It is just a particular perspective. Consider it.
In looking there is an activation of vision aimed at a mental image. i am looking for (that image) or I am looking at (a concept of an object) With seeing, I am seeing (a concept of an object) or I am seeing colors and textures and form. This is what was intended with the intense focus on the 'cup'.
When you are really intensely focused on seeing the colors, texture, etc, then that is all there is. The (idea of) cup has disappeared. It is no longer, in this moment, an object to contain liquid for drinking. There is just seeing happening.
Then when the question (who is seeing?) is asked the intention is to recognize that seeing stops when it (the question) is considered. There is also the intention to recognize that the only possible answer is that the who, is mind stuff.
With this in mind, have another go at the exercise. Read the instructions again first, then see if you can confirm from experience what I have just described.

with love

vince

[Jenuine1]

Good morning Vince

I’ve been practicing this last night and also this morning. I’m beginning to see what you are showing. I practiced it with a flower pot cup tree, and I can see such richness in colors, stripes and shades that move. Even the sides of the form shifts a little. And when I ask who is looking, my mind goes blank. No one is thinking. I can see there is nothing there but my thoughts

I like this exercise and do it when I go on my walk. I also asked myself when I’m going to sleep where is the sensation of me.

Thank you for these questions

I also do this with sound and it has become non-local when I let go of The thought of where it’s coming from.

Hugs Jen

[Jenuine1]

Also the world seems so unreal to me. Just a bunch of stories we all tell ourselves and then believe together. There isn’t a world out there. There’s only my world in here that I’m seeing what seems to be out there.
We are all lying😂 and some of the stories are incredibly hilarious

[Jenuine1]

I'm feeling a bit lost. There are so many stories and they seem so ridiculous. One person lives in a reality where aliens are fighting the spiritual war. My mom lives in a world where the government may put homeless people in here basement and put here in jail for donating to the wrong party. People look at me and seem to expect me to agree and respond and interact, but it all seems so crazy. Is there a practice that can support me in how to be in so many worlds? Some I see as adorable, but some seem nuts. I also feel like there's not a reality to connect to. None are real.

Thanks Vince, I appreciate all you do.

[vinceschubert]

Good evening Jen,

I also feel like there's not a reality to connect to. None are real.

Good seeing. Nothing is real. What is actual is always an interpretation from a particular perspective.
In this there is freedom (liberation) See if you can recognize the release from conformity here.

ust a bunch of stories we all tell ourselves and then believe together. There isn’t a world out there. There’s only my world in here that I’m seeing what seems to be out there.

You go Jen. You're on a roll. i love it.

I can see there is nothing there but my thoughts

Yes, yes, yes.
i can't wait to see the smile on your face...

with much love

vince

[Jenuine1]

thanks! I'm looking forward to tomorrows zoom. (My mind bounces, haha, that whole comment about a tomorrow is a figment in my mind, but the thought goes here in writing anyway.

I see that the discomfort being with the other worlds is that they'll think I'm crazy just standing there with my eyes wide. I can't believe that they actually believe what they're saying. So sometimes I just smile and nod. It's an interesting movie until they want me to join.The body sensations are that of feeling vulnerable to what they may think of me not seeing their world. Also that sometimes there seems to be anger there that has fear or anger happen in my body.

I'm just noticing and being with these sensations. Even the fear of seeming like a stupid blank person with no articulate thought to them. ... ooo so much discomfort
Hugs, Jen

[Jenuine1]

I just saw that there are not many worlds out there!
There are many worlds in here!!
Those are all my crazy amazing hilarious worlds!
They show up in what seems to be other people.
😂

[vinceschubert]

Good evening Jen,

It's an interesting movie until they want me to join.

You will learn to join in without partaking of their elixer. It's interesting simply because they are showing you something of yourself. The mirror is distorted so it can take some experimenting with angles to see what is being shown of yourself.
Everybody views the world (including people) through their own perception and arriving at their own unique interpretation. As a result they don't see you but only their interpretation of you. Mostly projection.
We don't try to fix them (unless they ask) just as we don't attempt to turn the water we swim in, into wine (or something)

ooo so much discomfort

Love that discomfort. It is an opportunity. It also is doing it's best to look after you.

I just saw that there are not many worlds out there!
There are many worlds in here!!
Those are all my crazy amazing hilarious worlds!
They show up in what seems to be other people.

Brilliant! this moves me. You are on a roll...
Talk to you in about 8 hours...

much love

vince

[Jenuine1]

Good Morning Vince,

I don't seem to have any questions.
What I would love is more excersises to practice deepening. I enjoy the cup one, and I saw the hand flip one. I love questioning where the boundries of Me are.
Are there any others that you could share with me?

I think the clincher was the total seeing that absolutely everything is a thought. Now I do deeper into unraveling every one that seem to spin off of the sensations.
Hugs, Jen

[vinceschubert]

Good morning Jen, after our recent posts and watching you on the recording, I am asking you if you clearly recognize the fictitious nature of an actual self and if there is any doubt about this?

vince

[Jenuine1]

Hi Vince,
I clearly see that all thoughts are just that, floating around telling stories and arguing with themselves. No one is here thinking. No one makes choices or decisions. Hand just moves, no one decides it. Jenni is made up of thoughts from an imagined past, and all thoughts of an imagined future are only imagined and are thoughts. Aware is aware of the cloud of thoughts and the sensations if they are believed. Aware just IS
Nope, nobody here. There is only exploring this realization and all thoughts that appear and if they're believed. Any fun tools you have are appreciated
Hugs and many thanks, Jen

I will continue Sunday because it's fun. I also enjoy exploring the world of unravelling these amazing beliefs.

[vinceschubert]

Hi Jen, given that LU is focused on the first fetter, let's go through the 'final' questions and see if we have missed anything.
The sunday group and the Fetter-Free group are more suited to your current (whatever) anyway.
Let's see what happens with these questions. Don't be long winded with your answers, but be authentic.
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

2) Describe how the illusion of an independent, self came into being by giving examples from actual experience.
Then give some experiential examples of how life changed for you after seeing through this illusion.

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) Can you remember any specific inquiry that resulted in an epiphany? ..a before and after seeing the actuality of the Self. Was there a point when you ‘got it’?

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?
Give examples from your own recent experiences to how these things happen and how they work.

b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

6) Anything to add?

[Jenuine1]

Good Morning Vince,

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

No there is not a separate entity and never was. The imagination was believed

2) Describe how the illusion of an independent, self came into being by giving examples from actual experience.
Then give some experiential examples of how life changed for you after seeing through this illusion.

In my mind as memory there were certain experiences and the thought of not allowing that to happen again. Then a sensation of contraction that spun beliefs of who the person is and isn’t. And these accumulated and shifted through life forming personality.
Being a woman having a body seeing objects was taught to the brain when I was young and believed.
The mind still see what seems to be objects but there is a knowing there’s something else there. And a knowing that it’s energy patterns that have been labeled. Although the eyes still see the labels at this point. Also still a draw to the unmanifest as well as desires left.
I close my eyes and see thoughts just there’s no one thinking, they’re just floating. They seem to gather around sensations. The person is imagination. The past that it was believed created the person in imagination. The future Is just thoughts and picture images in imagination. Sound is not local and when I look for the edges of the body it’s only sensation. Sometimes the thoughts will stir the sensation so strongly that the body moves. Sometimes the body moves seemingly without any thoughts.
Sometimes the image of a woman meditating appears in imagination but she never looks like the one in the mirror, behind all of this is nothing.

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

When thoughts of complaining judgment or worry show up I just watched them and then be with the sensations in the body.
I don’t believe that my thoughts are there making any decisions for me. The body will do what it does.
My life is beginning to shift from an ache of needing to know to now exploration

4) Can you remember any specific inquiry that resulted in an epiphany? ..a before and after seeing the actuality of the Self. Was there a point when you ‘got it’?

I could see this to a certain extent for a few years. But I think what moved it was a conversation about dying. When I saw that even that was just thoughts having a discussion

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?
Give examples from your own recent experiences to how these things happen and how they work.

There are no decisions, choices, or free will. the body does what it does according to its program and the mind has a commentary and discusses and strategizes with itself. Actions and choices seem to be automatic movement like sensations bumping off each other like billiards.
Awareness of the thoughts beliefs and sensations seem to shift the energy of the reactions.
I’m not sure about intention but It seems to be thoughts that are help long enough and then movement happens.
Ex: they were continuous thoughts about getting ice cream for the past week and they were just watched and sensations felt. It subsided three times until last night when there was a sensation in the body that felt tight and the body drove to the store.

6) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

I don’t know who would be responsible. There are looking and sensations. When something seems to happen and there are thoughts I follow it back to sensations in the body. They are either light and airy or tight and contracted. I feel them and the tight ones seem to disperse and relax. 
So what’s left is seeing thoughts and sensing sensations. 

Thanks Vince,
Hugs, Jen

[vinceschubert]

'morning Jen, The only thing that popped out for me when reading your responses was that in Q3 (how does it feel to see this?) you didn't describe a feeling about how you feel now. (you did describe the "ache of" before)

vince

[Jenuine1]

Hmmm
There’s a sense of sadness. This is all there is?🤷🏼‍♀️
But a long side there is a sense of curiosity

So there’s still some thing looking for an event.

I watched this video on the sixth fetter

There’s nervousness about it but also gives my mind some thing to think there will be some event.
https://youtu.be/fAROq9fe39I

Although when I look behind these thoughts there’s no one there.
So when I’m looking it’s so clear. Yep there’s something in here that feels there’s a bigger shift to happen. Is this typical?
Thanks