clarity

[Aliya]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I understand and have experienced that there is no consistent Aigerim within my body. So I experience myself very differently in different situations. And I would like to find more stability and clarity.

What are you looking for at LU?
I would like to be guided by someone who has more experience in being nobody but still leading a normal life. Since I feel very detached and don't seem to value normal goals.

I am also very sensitive and cannot spend a lot of time with others. Without being able to identify with something stable, I am experiencing all sorts of chaotic thoughts and I don't where to put my attention to be more calm and stable.

If there is someone who have gone this sort of experiences, I would love to find out more about on how to process this.

Thank you for this possibilty!

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I would like to understand my experiences more and bring more calmness and stability to my daily experiences. And maybe find out if someone has been thought this state? How to stabelise the experience of not having self but interacting with others in a meaningful way? I wud like to ask these questions and hopefully find an answer.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I have been teaching myself to meditate and self inquiry. But I do not have any formal training. I have had kind of spiritual experience in my childhood, which made me generally curious. Untill I was tought to do well in school, which I did and felt quite empty. I do take plant based drops to feel more calm if I have a busy day, because I am very conscious of everything around me and I feel overloaded by sensory information. I do not drink, don't smoke and have never done drugs.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10

[Anastacia42]

Hi,

I would offer to be your guide, except that I have no experience with this:

I am also very sensitive and cannot spend a lot of time with others.

I have no experience with this at all, but no guide who says they have has shown up yet. I'm pretty much the opposite. I go out to be with people and recharge my batteries.

Would you like for me to be your guide? Or would you like to wait?

You can read some of my threads on the forum and see how I work. Let me know.


Much love,

[Aliya]

Hi Anastacia,

I would love to try! Since I have moments of experience of seeing there is not me, buts not consistent and I totally get lost in emotions and thoughts.

Thank you!
Aliya

[Anastacia42]

Hi,

My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like.

Watch this, please:

https://youtu.be/vJQcD588g2w

and

https://youtu.be/PUDzrCLlrj4[url][/url]

One thing I want to make very clear up front is that with me, you must post every day. If you know yourself and your schedule are such that you cannot do this, tell me, "no," and someone else can guide you, please.

Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you know yourself to be a skeptical person, prone to doubt, I may not be the best guide for you. I never had any doubt. I can connect you with one of our other guides who did & who can guide you better than I.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?


Loving,

[Aliya]

Hallo Stacy,

thank you, I have watsched the videos.

How will life change?

It probably wont change at all.

How will you change?

I was thinking to write, my perspective might change, but than agan, whose perspertive is that? So maybe there is a perspective and that might change.

What will be different?

I can see that there is no I more often. Or hopefully, that other beliefs that are still here will be recognised and seen as belieft, and their influence might be less on the body and mind.

What is missing?

Clarity, to know things as they are.


Is this enough text or should I be writing more?

You can call me Aika and I live in zentral european timezone.

Thank you, I appreciate your guidance.

[Anastacia42]

Hi Aika

I appreciate short, succinct answers.

Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been, and never will be? That the whole thing was a made up story that we believed.


Loving,

[Aliya]

Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been, and never will be? That the whole thing was a made up story that we believed

I agree, but I did have questions like does family mean something? And answered it’s just a construct, does the emotional pain I feel mean I exist, but maybe it’s what it is and my expectations of feeling slightly better is just a story I believe. Is there absolutely no meaning in being kind then? There isn’t meaning attached that will lead to something I guess.
If there is no me, who is in a relationship? If there is no me, is this body just reacting and running on learned rules? Is there no use of thinking at all? If there is none, why do there is so much need to feel safe?

Frustration and confusion also anger comes up. And lots of questions.

[Anastacia42]

Well, you're right. Nothing means anything. It is VERY freeing. But let's let the pointers take you there organically.

This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

Loving,

[Aliya]

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification

Ok, so when I have emotions I should note it as sensations and thoughts?

[Anastacia42]

Practice this:



Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please. Same word forms. Same order. EXACTLY.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be.

Loving,

[Aliya]

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please. Same word forms. Same order. EXACTLY

Going for a walk, simply = thought
Feeling the wind, simply = sensation
Seeing the flowers, simply = colors
Admiring flower, simply thought

Listening to a talk, simply= sound
Feeling arising, simply = sensation
Understanding, simply = thought

Resting on a bed, simply = sensation
Feeling glad, simply = thought

Feeling thirsty, simply = sensation
Wanting to drink water, simply = thought
Drinking water, simply = taste

Thank you!

[Anastacia42]

Good! Yes. Let's take it a step further.

Mind Labeling Experience

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation i.e. is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example:

I am sitting on a chair,
I am hearing a clock ticking,
I am looking at a computer screen,
I am feeling hungry.

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example:

Sitting on a chair,
typing,
breathing,
blinking,
hearing the clock.

(Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

2. What is here without labels?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?
Loving,

[Aliya]

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

only writing actions without the I feels closer to, what is happening.

2. What is here without labels?

Only actions and noticing of it

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

Always putting the I seems to focus my attention in a way. So it affects slightly, but in reality it doesnt affect the thing thats going on.

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

When saying "I am sitting" feels focused and restricted and a little tight in the body, while sitting doesnt have that tightening affect.

Thank you!

[Anastacia42]

Good yes.

Now let's look at those sensations a little closer.

Here is how to distinguish truth from lies.

We often lie every day & don't realize it.

For example, the grocery clerk asks, "How are you?" You reply, "I'm fine." While, yes. there is a sense in which we are always fine, even in the middle of suffering, at that moment, you were grieving the death of your dog, you had a slight sore throat & you had a headache, but you didn't feel like sharing all of that with the grocery clerk, so you lied, "I'm fine."

Also, it matters none at all how "distant" the remembered lie is. Besides the fact that time itself is fictional, a kind if lie, as we recall the lie it becomes present in this moment, as if it were happening now. This brings the body Sensation that accompanies lying.

Lies can be intentional or unintentional, conscious or unconscious, even so automatic that we ourselves are fooled.

The story of a separate "self" is a lie.

This is the lie you came here to see through. Therefore, it is helpful to notice the body Sensation of lying as one of the tools for finding the truth of no self.

You want to be in touch with body Sensations & able to clearly express them in words. This will help.

Lies are usually felt in the heart or solar plexus as a contraction that we may label as tight, heavy or tense.

In contrast, truth is usually expansive. We may call it loose, light or relaxed.

First, can you remember a time when you lied to someone you loved?

Here we count anything, lies we think of as "big" or "small" that "matter" or don't "matter."

How are you? I'm fine. No, your knee hurts, but you don't feel like discussing it with the grocery clerk.

It's a lie. A seemingly "bigger" one will work better for this exercise.

Find the lie. I don't need the whole story, just a few key words to refer to it.

Then scan your body for any Sensation (DE or Direct Experience), particularly in the gut or maybe the heart. Check very closely.

What is found?

If you think the memory you used wasn't clear enough, find another one or lie to yourself right now, make something up.

1 + 1 = 14 is a lie.

I love eating worms is (probably) a lie.

Or call up a video of a lying politician & notice what Sensations arise as you listen.

I will give you a clue: it is not that peaceful Sensation you felt before when you omitted "I." (refers to an exercise I gave before this one)

Please report back with what body Sensations (not interpretations) you feel. Bodies can feel hot or cold, heavy or light, contraction or expansion, etc.

"Peaceful" is an interpretation of a body Sensation, not the Sensation itself, for example.

Do you see that?

Loving,

[Aliya]

What is found?

I lied to mom about where I was going: thightnes, contraction in the heart, neck and face area.
Also there was urge to finish the conversation.

Lying to my brother about my opinion: strong tightness in the heart area

Do you see that?

yes, I do realise the difference between interpretation and actual bodily reaction, although its not easy to also be noticing the reaction.

Thank you!