Time to head back home

[ray]

Hi John,

Working through this. Yesterday I had the reply "no worries" and "if you feel you need forgiving consider yourself forgiven". I have written back today with thoughts and feelings. and a review of the past. There's nothing "awful" in this, just entrenched attachments.

All day yesterday there was a bit of "separate self" around. But I woke in the night from an unusual dream and he was gone. I don't know what the dream was about. But afterwards there were lots of thoughts as my body lay in the bed. Seeing consciousness looking at it itself, that sort of thing.

This statement came up, there is no enlightenment, no liberation, because there is no one to be liberated and no one to get enlightened. What there is is a feeling of liberty and a feeling of lightness.
John, those feelings are being felt here and I sincerely hope they are being felt there with you

It's been a lovely day today.

I have a question for me.

Q. What if tomorrow you wake up tomorrow and it's like yesterday with an uncomfortable sense of self around?

A. It really doesn't matter. That will be fine.

Thanks for being my Buddha Buddy,

Ray.

[s-p-a-c-e]

Hi Ray,

Hi John,

Working through this. Yesterday I had the reply "no worries" and "if you feel you need forgiving consider yourself forgiven". I have written back today with thoughts and feelings. and a review of the past. There's nothing "awful" in this, just entrenched attachments.

Taking a step aside from LU for moment...

The next step is to forgive yourself - which is all anyone can really do anyway. To do that, requires taking responsibility for the part you played and also to find the lesson in it for you. Once you have seen the lesson and worked it through, that is already the forgiveness of yourself.

All day yesterday there was a bit of "separate self" around. But I woke in the night from an unusual dream and he was gone. I don't know what the dream was about. But afterwards there were lots of thoughts as my body lay in the bed. Seeing consciousness looking at it itself, that sort of thing.

LOL :) "That sort of thing".

"What are you doing darling?"
"Oh, you know, just letting consciousness look at itself. Won't be long."

This statement came up, there is no enlightenment, no liberation, because there is no one to be liberated and no one to get enlightened. What there is is a feeling of liberty and a feeling of lightness.
John, those feelings are being felt here and I sincerely hope they are being felt there with you

Coming through clear and strong. :)

It's been a lovely day today.

I have a question for me.

Q. What if tomorrow you wake up tomorrow and it's like yesterday with an uncomfortable sense of self around?

A. It really doesn't matter. That will be fine.

Thanks for being my Buddha Buddy,

Ray.

You're gonna put me out of a job!

Keep bringing it back to yourself like you're doing. Catch up soon.

WIth best wishes,
John

[ray]

Ticking over here.

The past 2 nights I have spent some time awake, or half awake, in the middle of the night. This has been aided by the profound effects of my wife's chicken soup and also her snoring. I have had some drifting, thinking space for insight and for letting things settle.

till tomorrow,

Ray.

[s-p-a-c-e]

Hi Ray,

Ticking over here.

The past 2 nights I have spent some time awake, or half awake, in the middle of the night. This has been aided by the profound effects of my wife's chicken soup and also her snoring. I have had some drifting, thinking space for insight and for letting things settle.

till tomorrow,

Ray.

Ticking is good. I love it when my wife snores, then I know she's still alive. LOL :)

Cool. Keeping that gentle firmness of focus, like holding something fragile in your hand.

With all my support and best wishes,
John

[ray]

Hi John,

I PM'ed you the other day. I have discovered an important lesson from the issue holding me back. That lesson has been worked through and is settling nicely.

Anything you'd like to ask?

Warmest regards,

Ray

[s-p-a-c-e]

Hi Ray,

Hi John,

I PM'ed you the other day. I have discovered an important lesson from the issue holding me back. That lesson has been worked through and is settling nicely.

Anything you'd like to ask?

Warmest regards,

Ray

I didn't receive any PM.

So where are you now - when you settle down and see - who and what is Ray?

With best wishes,
John

p.s. feel free to PM again to test the system works ok. I have received other PMs in the last week.

[ray]

Hi John,

I have sent you another PM, did you get it?

Where I am now.
Life it seems is the play of consciousness. Ray is the experiencer of this life, the witness of this life, except that there is no "I", no "Ray" at the center. Life is lived as consciousness projected through the "lens" of this package of personality, mind and body.

Without the illusion of that reactive "I" at the centre my interactions with other people are warmer and more natural. Without feeling in any way special, "I" have a gift for others and that gift is my company, my prescence. What comes back from them is the same, and in equal measure.

Ray.

[s-p-a-c-e]

Hi Ray,

Where I am now.
Life it seems is the play of consciousness. Ray is the experiencer of this life, the witness of this life, except that there is no "I", no "Ray" at the center. Life is lived as consciousness projected through the "lens" of this package of personality, mind and body.

Where is the witness? Does it have an independent existence? Is Ray the witness?

Check it out. Look at what is and what is labelled.

Without the illusion of that reactive "I" at the centre my interactions with other people are warmer and more natural. Without feeling in any way special, "I" have a gift for others and that gift is my company, my prescence. What comes back from them is the same, and in equal measure.

Nice. :)

Best wishes,
John

[ray]

Hi John,

My previous post was a bit clumsily worded. There is no "one" experiencing, no "one" witnessing. Ray is an illusion. Returning to my very very early post about the childrens fairground ride (and the Beezer): this life is like an older kid on the fairground ride who realises that the steering wheel is fake, but also realises that "he" is just like the very young child and has no sense of self so no illusion of a controlling prescence.

Several nights recently I have been awake after 4:30 and drifting. It's not right to say I was thinking, but rather thinking was happeneing. After the event I might say "last night I thought ...", but there was no I there .
Here are some of those thoughts.
Consciousness reflects/ views itself and a human life is a point of awareness where that consciousness can become aware of what is happening.
Q. Looking behind consciousness what is there?
A. To give it a label it could be called "the Depth of Stillness" no movement, no action there., but also not the absence of either of those. Without moving it is the dynamic possibility of all that is.
How it goes from stillness into being is difficult to fathom. Even in this manifest world this Depth of Stillness is at the foundation of every thing.
Is there Number before there was God (some mathematicians like to suggest there was that the logic that underlies maths just IS) ?
A. In the Depth of Stillness of Being there is not name, nor number, nor being, nor non being, nor zero, nor 1. Nor is there the absence of these.

It seems that plumbing the depths of such is not significantly different to any other kind of plumbing.
There are the taps at one end ( at "our" end) and the reservoir at the other. Beyond that there is the space where the water originates from. And it all goes round and round in th ewater cycle. As humans there is the possibility to look down the pipe and see the relationship between the taps and the reservoir. Ok it's not a perfect metaphor :-)

With warm best wishes,
Ray.

[s-p-a-c-e]

Hi Ray,

Hi John,

My previous post was a bit clumsily worded. There is no "one" experiencing, no "one" witnessing. Ray is an illusion. Returning to my very very early post about the childrens fairground ride (and the Beezer): this life is like an older kid on the fairground ride who realises that the steering wheel is fake, but also realises that "he" is just like the very young child and has no sense of self so no illusion of a controlling prescence.

Written with the precision of life.

Several nights recently I have been awake after 4:30 and drifting. It's not right to say I was thinking, but rather thinking was happeneing. After the event I might say "last night I thought ...", but there was no I there .
Here are some of those thoughts.
Consciousness reflects/ views itself and a human life is a point of awareness where that consciousness can become aware of what is happening.

Is that was is happening?

Q. Looking behind consciousness what is there?
A. To give it a label it could be called "the Depth of Stillness" no movement, no action there., but also not the absence of either of those. Without moving it is the dynamic possibility of all that is.

Behind consciousness - wow. ;) I know it's fun to speculate, but can we move back to what's happening.

How it goes from stillness into being is difficult to fathom. Even in this manifest world this Depth of Stillness is at the foundation of every thing.
Is there Number before there was God (some mathematicians like to suggest there was that the logic that underlies maths just IS) ?
A. In the Depth of Stillness of Being there is not name, nor number, nor being, nor non being, nor zero, nor 1. Nor is there the absence of these.

See above response.

It seems that plumbing the depths of such is not significantly different to any other kind of plumbing.
There are the taps at one end ( at "our" end) and the reservoir at the other. Beyond that there is the space where the water originates from. And it all goes round and round in th ewater cycle. As humans there is the possibility to look down the pipe and see the relationship between the taps and the reservoir. Ok it's not a perfect metaphor :-)

It's also seeing the unknown in terms of the known - not overly fruitful.

The juice of life is all there is. You are completely immersed, dissolved, in it. Joyfully, somehow, there is - to use your nice phrase, that "point of awareness".

If anyone tries to explain to you what all this is, ask for a receipt. ;)

With much love,
John

[ray]

Hi John,

ray wrote:
Several nights recently I have been awake after 4:30 and drifting. It's not right to say I was thinking, but rather thinking was happeneing. After the event I might say "last night I thought ...", but there was no I there .
Here are some of those thoughts.
Consciousness reflects/ views itself and a human life is a point of awareness where that consciousness can become aware of what is happening.

John wrote
Is that was is happening?

All the words that follow "Several nights recently..." were my half awake, half dreaming thougts and imaginings. I thought they were interesting, but won't be trying to sell them down the market.

The bit about consciousness becoming aware in a human life rings true. OK, consciousness is a label, but it's about the move from illusion to awareness. I don't see any "I" at the controls in the awareness, it still just somehow happens. There definitely does seem to be a common connection between this point of awareness and other people at whatever stage of awakening or illusion that they are at. In fact dealing with other people I "see" them functioning more from an awake state when I am not reacting and opposing them. This makes life rather pleasant.
There is certainly joy in dealing with other people and in life in general. This isn't full-on 100% of the time, but there are no complaints from this "point of awareness".

Warmest regards,

Ray

[s-p-a-c-e]

Hi Ray,

Hi John,

ray wrote:
Several nights recently I have been awake after 4:30 and drifting. It's not right to say I was thinking, but rather thinking was happeneing. After the event I might say "last night I thought ...", but there was no I there .
Here are some of those thoughts.
Consciousness reflects/ views itself and a human life is a point of awareness where that consciousness can become aware of what is happening.

John wrote
Is that was is happening?

All the words that follow "Several nights recently..." were my half awake, half dreaming thougts and imaginings. I thought they were interesting, but won't be trying to sell them down the market.

:)

The bit about consciousness becoming aware in a human life rings true. OK, consciousness is a label, but it's about the move from illusion to awareness. I don't see any "I" at the controls in the awareness, it still just somehow happens. There definitely does seem to be a common connection between this point of awareness and other people at whatever stage of awakening or illusion that they are at. In fact dealing with other people I "see" them functioning more from an awake state when I am not reacting and opposing them. This makes life rather pleasant.

You will know the phrase: "The map is not the territory". All discussions in the terms of the Known will not bring the Unknown one inch towards us.

As strange as it may seem - and I only speak for myself :) - making life more pleasant is not the focus or the aim. It may be the effect, for some, but certainly not all - by a long chalk.

And so the way in which this is approached is the seeing of it. Bizarre perhaps.

Speak soon,
John

[ray]

Hi John,

It's just over a week ago when there was a definite seeing with me. Since then I have wafted around a bit. There have been some underlying personal issues to investigate, understand and resolve. That is in progress and need not get in the way of what happens here. I have also lapsed into some speculative areas. Speculation=not substantial=imaginings. Not needed on the voyage. These are in the area of entertainment not reality. When confronted they make "me" feel foolish and push me back in to old self. Interesting.

One recent phrase of yours has echoed,

John wrote
"Is that was is happening?"

It's time to refocus on what is here and now. On what is real and what is not real.
It is easier to really focus down on what is not real. I cannot see something that is controlling this living experience.

There is a question though. When I was in that illusion of a self that's running the show and reacting to the world, situations where I was reacting had a different outcome than they do when there is no reactive self in here. So what is happening there? Is the illusion of a separate self (i.e. the lack of awareness as to what is real) causing "noise" in the system to affect behaviours and outcomes?

Warm regards,
Ray

[s-p-a-c-e]

Hi Ray,

Hi John,

It's just over a week ago when there was a definite seeing with me. Since then I have wafted around a bit. There have been some underlying personal issues to investigate, understand and resolve. That is in progress and need not get in the way of what happens here. I have also lapsed into some speculative areas. Speculation=not substantial=imaginings. Not needed on the voyage. These are in the area of entertainment not reality. When confronted they make "me" feel foolish and push me back in to old self. Interesting.

Always appreciate your honesty Ray.

One recent phrase of yours has echoed,

John wrote
"Is that was is happening?"

It's time to refocus on what is here and now. On what is real and what is not real.
It is easier to really focus down on what is not real. I cannot see something that is controlling this living experience.

Yes, it was to point out that our descriptions of what is happening is not what is happening. And our descriptions, if we get attached to them, only serve to get in the way of simple seeing of what is.

There is a question though. When I was in that illusion of a self that's running the show and reacting to the world, situations where I was reacting had a different outcome than they do when there is no reactive self in here. So what is happening there? Is the illusion of a separate self (i.e. the lack of awareness as to what is real) causing "noise" in the system to affect behaviours and outcomes?

My guess would be that when we act AS IF we are "I" - then we operate from our socially-conditioned view of the world and therefore re-act or re-enact patterns of behaviour AS IF they are "ours".

Once it is seen, fully and completely, that you are not the "I", the conditioning still plays out, but with a twist: it's not "you" nor "yours" and so not "real". So more fluidity and no-one to re-act.

Does that clarify any?

Speak soon!

With warm wishes,
John

[ray]

Good morning John,

I've had some clarifying thoughts about my life and key events. I can make a lot more sense of me now. Quite a useful Sunday morning lie-in.

This is just a quick post, but I have some topics for further debate, e.g. How an illusion has real effects, how this is all very logical, and how our language hinders critical discussion on these matters. Or does it?
I'll try and put my answers, while posing the questions.
It's funny, I've always hated writing essays but this stuff seems to write itself ;-)

have a pleasant sunny day,
Ray