Finally free

[Eyeofheart]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
The self is a thought and the source of suffering. In direct experience it does not exist.

What are you looking for at LU?
Clarity and peace. Seeing through the veil of “me and my”…….which obscures direct perception. I want freedom from the belief of a separate me living my life.
It is conceptually clear but not embodied.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
No-nonsense direct pointing. Someone who is used to working with “ mental” types. I have spoken with Ilona in the past, never formally guided on the forum.
I am in a full immersion period at the moment.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
45 years of seeking
Through Buddhism advita yadda yadda

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10

[Anastacia42]

So. As you know...

My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like.

One thing I want to make very clear up front is that with me, you must post every day. If you know yourself and your schedule are such that you cannot do this, tell me, "no," and someone else can guide you, please.

Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you know yourself to be a skeptical person, prone to doubt, I may not be the best guide for you. I never had any doubt. I can connect you with one of our other guides who did & who can guide you better than I.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?

Loving,

[Eyeofheart]

How will life change?

I have no idea, actually. I would like to believe there will be less suffering with
less identification with thoughts (seeing through the thinker).

How will you change?

I am not sure if the word "you" in this context means how will experience change?
I imagine that there will be more appreciation of "this' right here right now.
If the word "you" means the illusory "me" I hope it will be seen through and no longer
believed or experienced as "real"

What will be different?

No-thing will be different. Only the filter of "me" will be seen through, thus the reducing or eliminating the experience of separation.

"What is missing?"

Nothing need be added to current experience. The mental chatter about me will hopefully quiet down
and belief systems will be seen through (process of removal not addition).

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?

You can call me Leela. I am in Pacific time zone, USA.

[Anastacia42]

Good morning Leela,

And you read the disclaimers. etc?


Okay,. good. Your expectations are mostly reasonable. Know that seeing comes and goes, possibly for years. There are a couple of videos about that I'll share later.

First, this one:

https://youtu.be/wyNwhK2Ur1c

Now, what comes up when reading there is no self. never has been that it was all a made up story?


I'm in Mountain Time near Boulder, Colorado. (Yes. sometimes when I wake up in the middle if the night. I answer these. )

Much love,

[Eyeofheart]

And you read the disclaimers. etc?

Yes, I did.

Now, what comes up when reading there is no self. never has been that it was all a made up story?

I have been following Pernille’s work since the beginning of her fetter lessons. Esp love her interviews with Angelo and Kevin.
Her humor about “ my cucumber” reveals how ridiculous the whole ownership idea is.
YET, as this idea gets closer to the heart, my age, for example, there is a pang of discomfort in the body if I imagine some specific people calling me old.
There is a deep conditioned embodied longing for love, and attention ( early trauma stories can boot up).

So in all honesty although concern with appearance diet clothing etc has mostly dropped there is a deep feeling of aloneness, not existing, or something below this one.

Also when it comes to money, due to conditioning, the feeling that my house ( and recent very expensive remodel) is “mine” exists. I could not do what Byron Katie did and give the keys to her house away! A deep fear arises when I imagine the cushion of material comfort I worked for most of my life (in the story) as “ not mine”

❤️

[Anastacia42]

Hi,

deep conditioned embodied longing

If you are familiar with Katie, you know this is just a story. There is no "deep," no "conditioned," no "embodied," and no "longing." In fact, if you will say that sentence or even just the phrase, you will find that your gut contracts just thinking it. This is the "lie feeling." You know how Katie says, "if it hurts, you are lying." That. More on that soon.

deep feeling of aloneness, not existing, or something below this one.

What is your gut saying? Is it tight? Contracted? Heavy?
Mm hmm - lies.

Pernille is good. I've watched her videos and been in teleconferences we have with her.

Here is a good video that Ilona did on fear:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKX1llYtlKE

And an exercise for anxiety when it happens:

Here is an anxiety exercise that focuses a person in the present, and in a part of the brain that cannot do anxiety. Basically, go through each sense and say (or think) "I see/ hear/ feel/ taste/ touch ______________." A minute or two of each and usually anxiety is gone.

I see the couch.
I see the keyboard.
I see the glass. Etc.

I hear the train.
I hear the keys clacking.
I hear my breath. Etc.

I feel the couch under my butt.
I feel my fingers on the keys.
I feel the cold air. Etc.

I taste a metallic taste in my mouth.
I taste the coffee.
I taste the food. Etc.

I smell the humidity in the air.
I smell my husband's shampoo.
I smell the soap. Etc.

As far as I can tell, the only time this doesn't work is when someone won't do it.

Give those a try and let me know if it helps. Then we'll move on.

Much love,

[Eyeofheart]

your gut contracts just thinking it. This is the "lie feeling."

Body yes/Body no. Or using a "delicious yes" feeling in the body to navigate towards truth.
I have used this reliably for about eight years for thoughts and events as they arise, yet
somehow the "traumatized little one" has been hiding under this radar...
That is because even though there is no psychological self or selves, even though
the trauma story never happened, I have been encouraged by Ilona and others
(Christiane Michelberger, Angelo, etc) that this bodily contraction can not be spiritually bypassed
but rather met with love/acceptance/compassion until it self liberates. (As the video you referred me to describes).

The notion of shadow work or early trauma has been a "sticking point" of sorts in this whole unfettering process.
I am not sure the advice I have been given has served me since after literally 45 years of therapy and psychological
depth work I am still not "free." Therefore I will adopt your advice; when I feel a contraction labeled fear, anxiety or longing
I will try grounding in the senses for a few minutes. (previously, I just found the gap and rested there till it dissipated or inquired re: on who's behalf does the urge to react occur? This is more challenging with core reactivity (not simply cucumbers or traffic etc).
So yes, "core reactivity" is a story. and it feels bad.


On a lighter note, while driving today I found myself saying, "I" am a university, "I" am a forest, "I" am a car"
(Eg an abstract concept made of body, thoughts, sensations, perceptions). Following on those parts are made of other so called parts (cells, molecules atoms etc) on and on till no-thing exists at all.
I have done this intellectually before, but today it seemed ridiculously obvious.
I almost broke out laughing but at that moment I pulled up to pick up "my mother" and put on my poker face.

[Anastacia42]

almost broke out laughing but at that moment I pulled up to pick up "my mother"

Aww, let yourself laugh!

Many people go through a period of alternately laughing & crying when they SEE how simple & obvious it all is. I did some of that.

Now, I'm not recommending "spiritual bypassing." But yes, all of that is stories, and to me, recognizing they have no power over me & are just *thinking* IS the work. (Or The Work... of Byron Katie).

Now, from now on, let's mostly stick to pointers & LOOKING, rather than stories.

This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

Loving,

[Eyeofheart]

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

Yes, entirely clear!
I am aware of the repeated urge (slight/contraction/discomfort in the body) to shift the focus to thinking about the socks rather than looking into DE.

[Anastacia42]

Good. And good that you use body yes & body no.

Okay let's practice.

Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please. Same word forms. Same order. EXACTLY.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be.

Loving,

[Eyeofheart]

Seeing the cat simply=image/color
Hearing cat eat simply= sound
Petting cat. simply= sensation
Hearing the cat purr simply= sound

Thought about thirst. simply= thought
Seeing water bottle by bed simply= image/color
Picking up water bottle. Simply=sensation
Opening the lid simply = sensation
Hearing the lid open simply= sound
Drinking the water. Simply= taste


Looking at phone simply= image/color
Texting reply. Simply= image/image
Feeling fingers on screen simply= sensation
Hearing sound of keyboard simply= sound
Thought about reply simply= thought

[Anastacia42]

Okay good. Not many about thought, so watch that one.

Now try this:

Mind Labeling Experience

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation i.e. is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example:

I am sitting on a chair,
I am hearing a clock ticking,
I am looking at a computer screen,
I am feeling hungry.

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example:

Sitting on a chair,
typing,
breathing,
blinking,
hearing the clock.

(Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

2. What is here without labels?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?


Loving,

[Eyeofheart]

1

. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

No they have the same truth re: what is happening here.

2. What is here without labels?

The exact same experience is here with and without labels.

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

They do not affect it they describe it. As pertains to DE, not only are the labels surperfluous, but they
inhibit full perception of objects (eg. once I use the label tree, cat, computer etc. I stop noticing DE and
shift attention elsewhere.

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

Yes, but it is subtle,
the difference is that when the label "i" is added to the sitting, seeing, hearing, etc it seems to create a "center"
or "point" from which these actions take place. Without the "i" the actions do not appear to emanate from anywhere, but rather feel unlocated in "space."

[Eyeofheart]

.

Did you notice any differences in the body?

Drilling down on this question,

concerning bodily sensations:
I am feeling hungry
and feeling hungry
the issue i mentioned previously of a reference point or POV (point of view) does not occur as it does with seeing/hearing "external objects".

In the case of unpleasant sensations
I have a pain in my neck
vs. there is a pain in the neck

The first one seems to increase the tendency to elicit a story and thus the sense of "there is something wrong" or feeling of lack.

[Anastacia42]

Here is any that pointer kept asking a it body Sensations. If you look, you'll find tension in your gut with "I" that is not there without it. Check.

Here is how to distinguish truth from lies.

We often lie every day & don't realize it.

For example, the grocery clerk asks, "How are you?" You reply, "I'm fine." While, yes. there is a sense in which we are always fine, even in the middle of suffering, at that moment, you were grieving the death of your dog, you had a slight sore throat & you had a headache, but you didn't feel like sharing all of that with the grocery clerk, so you lied, "I'm fine."

Also, it matters none at all how "distant" the remembered lie is. Besides the fact that time itself is fictional, a kind if lie, as we recall the lie it becomes present in this moment, as if it were happening now. This brings the body Sensation that accompanies lying.

Lies can be intentional or unintentional, conscious or unconscious, even so automatic that we ourselves are fooled.

The story of a separate "self" is a lie.

This is the lie you came here to see through. Therefore, it is helpful to notice the body Sensation of lying as one of the tools for finding the truth of no self.

You want to be in touch with body Sensations & able to clearly express them in words. This will help.

Lies are usually felt in the heart or solar plexus as a contraction that we may label as tight, heavy or tense.

In contrast, truth is usually expansive. We may call it loose, light or relaxed.

First, can you remember a time when you lied to someone you loved?

Here we count anything, lies we think of as "big" or "small" that "matter" or don't "matter."

How are you? I'm fine. No, your knee hurts, but you don't feel like discussing it with the grocery clerk.

It's a lie. A seemingly "bigger" one will work better for this exercise.

Find the lie. I don't need the whole story, just a few key words to refer to it.

Then scan your body for any Sensation (DE or Direct Experience), particularly in the gut or maybe the heart. Check very closely.

What is found?

If you think the memory you used wasn't clear enough, find another one or lie to yourself right now, make something up.

1 + 1 = 14 is a lie.

I love eating worms is (probably) a lie.

Or call up a video of a lying politician & notice what Sensations arise as you listen.

I will give you a clue: it is not that peaceful Sensation you felt before when you omitted "I." (refers to an exercise I gave before this one)

Please report back with what body Sensations (not interpretations) you feel. Bodies can feel hot or cold, heavy or light, contraction or expansion, etc.

"Peaceful" is an interpretation of a body Sensation, not the Sensation itself, for example.

Do you see that?

Loving,