Back for guidance

[AwayKen127]

Thanks for the update, Jerry. Do you have enough to work on for now? When you get to it, tell me about how emotions appear in experience. Keep me posted.
Jeff

[Russ84]

Hi Jeff yes I have enough to work on. I'm identifying more thoughts as I look. Will continue to look at emotions as they arise and note what I find.

[Russ84]

Hi Jeff
Continuing to look. I've noticed more sensations throughout the day, tingly vibrations all around the body, similar to being a few days into a retreat. This gives me opportunity to look for the location of them, at times it looks like they have none. Not much looking at emotions again, only brief experiences. The only understanding so far is that there's always a physical sensation that arises, different for each emotion and not sure if that's before or after yet.

[Russ84]

Hi Jeff,
Continuing to look, I've started doing 90 minute morning meditations and being more consistent with evening looking. Still working on the beliefs in control of thoughts and position of sensations.

[AwayKen127]

Great. Any questions or concerns?

[Russ84]

Hi Jeff
No questions or concerns so far, continuing to look and acknowledging the thoughts of being critical over not seeing it are just a story.

[AwayKen127]

Okay, let me know when you're ready for the next step.
Jeff

[Russ84]

Will do, I'll keep posting daily to let you know I'm still looking.

[AwayKen127]

Sounds good, Jerry.

[Russ84]

Hi Jeff, continuing to look

[AwayKen127]

What have you discovered, Jerry?

[Russ84]

Hi Jeff
I didn't get much looking in yesterday, too many distractions.

Is it really subtle when you no longer believe there is a controller? As it seems to be very subtle and not really much of a change between the two. I think that's the difficulty with still believing in a thinker here. There was still a belief in a breather while attention is on the breath while meditating and I did the rotating palm at the same time to compare the two actions which helped me to see there wasn't a breather.

[AwayKen127]

Is it really subtle when you no longer believe there is a controller?

I don't know how to answer that for myself, which is all I can do. I don't know how it is or will be for you.

Let's look at a thought: "I decided I will do that". In direct experience, just looking without thinking, do you see a decider? If there is no decider, what is there in experience that could possibly cause the decided outcome to happen? (Recall that experience contains only sensations and thoughts, and nothing else.) Do sensations make things happen? Do thoughts make things happen? Thoughts, when you look closely, are just reflections of sensations (visual, aural, tactile, etc). Can a thought cause something to happen? If not, what in experience makes things happen? If the thought, "I decided I will do that" doesn't make anything happen, what is the thought "doing"?

[Russ84]

Hi Jeff

In direct experience, just looking without thinking, do you see a decider?

No I don't see a decider

Do sensations make things happen? Do thoughts make things happen? Can a thought cause something to happen?

Sensations and thoughts don't make things happen or cause them to happen.

If not, what in experience makes things happen? If the thought, "I decided I will do that" doesn't make anything happen, what is the thought "doing"?

Nothing in experience seems to make things happen, they just happen. The thought is only commenting on what has happened, telling a story.

[AwayKen127]

Nothing in experience seems to make things happen, they just happen. The thought is only commenting on what has happened, telling a story.

Right. Sometimes a thought is a prediction masquerading as an intention. "I will do that" is a prediction that "That will happen".