Liberation lost and found

[Anastacia42]

I think Vince's group meets today. You can email him.


There are 3 meetings & a set of 5 videos you're invited to attend:

Thursday Meetings.

Hi Guys,

we are Luchana & Lubo, guides at LU.

Here is an invitation for you:

Join us each Thursday, 6 pm CET, UTC+1
and let's explore together what is already here.
Let's enjoy together this beauty called Life
MEETINGS ARE ON ZOOM and LIVE on youtube.

To participate in the meetings, send a request to luchanauzunova@gmail.com

You will receive an e-mail confirming your participation and a link to join.

Looking forward to seeing YOU!
Luchana & Lubo
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Meet up with Vince (For LU seekers & guides)

Monday August 14

Sydney (est) Australia. 6 am right now
Every 2 weeks after that.

https://us02web.zoom.us/j/86991485768?p ... 12Um5DQT09

Meeting ID: 869 9148 5768
Passcode: 083035

Let him know if you want email reminders.
vinceschubert@gmail.com

__________________________________________________

Ilona's Meetings

Next group meeting on Zoom is on the 4th of September. (There was one October 9. Not sure when next one is. )

To register send Ilona an email to

admin@ilonaciunaite.com

Looking forward :)


__________________________________________________

(videos)

Hi everyone.

Starting on 15th of October for 5 weeks I will post a new video of guiding sessions we had with Jim.
Here is a link to the first one.

https://youtu.be/gb6FwZ6PlI4

Liberation Unleashed Direct Pointing - The Gateless Gate

Ilona

Write to them for the next meeting.Ilona's is April 9th.

For Fetters:

Todd has teleconference group that meets - I think every 2 weeks. I can invite you to that group on Facebook where the notices are posted. What is your FB name?

There is also www.findingawakening.com but Christine has a waiting list.

And Kevin Shinilac has https://www.simplytheseen.com/ but I don't think he is guiding any more, although there are instructions on his site.


So, there are lots of ways to continue once we're finished.

Loving,

[SarahLuna]

Yes please! I am keen to work with the final questions.

[Anastacia42]

Then here you go:


1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Loving,

[SarahLuna]

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No, I see not in theory. In practice I can still feel like there is one.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

It’s the idea that I am somehow separate from life, able to control myself and the environment to a certain extent. It starts very early in life and is an advantage in terms of survival. I know that my fear and anger seem to keep me safe. It is perpetuated by language and the idea of a separate self in our society.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

I have had the experience of really seeing there is no separation though the feeling of separation lingers. I have also felt associated sadness, anger, despair arising.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

Comparing myself to a tree and a river both really helped.

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

It’s the idea that a separate self can make decisions for itself. This still feels real at times. In reality there are just thoughts arising. I went for a walk today and realised that I didn’t decide what to look at when walking, my head just turned and eyes looked.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

This is thoughts about the future. Doesn’t always work out. Today I intended to have a nap as I had not slept well due to intense emotions arising. It didn’t happen.


Will answer the rest tomorrow.

[SarahLuna]

My Facebook name is Sarah Luna.

[Anastacia42]

Hi Sarah

We aren't finished until you're 100% sure there's no separate 'self." It doesn't appear & disappear. It never existed in the first place.

It's like seeing there's no Santa Claus. Just because the man puts his trees suit back on doesn't make him "real." Even if you *seem* to see some "self" this doesn't make it real.

Can you see that clearly?

If not, here's another pointer to try:

When we look very closely and precisely we come to see that “me” thoughts only refer to other “me” thoughts, not to an actual abiding “me.”

Observe thoughts with precision; can you ever find a ‘me’ within the “me” thoughts and feelings, or just a sense of me?

Explore ‘Sense of Self'

Let’s say that you have lost your keys and you swear that you left them in your coat. You go to look and check all the pockets - the keys are not there. You swear they must be as that was the last place you remember them. You have a vivid memory of putting them there after you left the house. But when you check they are not there. At this point you can keep believing that the keys are in your pocket, or you can admit you were mistaken.

This is just like that. You may see clearly that the self is an illusion but still feel a sense of self - just like the keys. But feeling something to be true and seeing that it is or is not is different. This is why we may find ourselves coming back to your expectations at the start and at the end.

Now, I’d like to ask you to explore this SENSE of self very-very thoroughly. Not by thinking about it, but by FEELING it. Keep the focus of attention on the sense of self and inquire:

Does the sense of self have a location?

Does the sense of self have a shape or a size?

Does the sense of self say or communicate anything?

If the answer is yes, how does the sense do this exactly?

Does the sense of self have any characteristics or attributes?

What is the sense of self ‘made of’? An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? Thought?

What is found?

Loving,

[Anastacia42]

I found 12 Sarah Lunas on Facebook

I'm Stacy Ann Clark in Boulder. Colorado. Maybe that's easier.

[SarahLuna]

Observe thoughts with precision; can you ever find a ‘me’ within the “me” thoughts and feelings, or just a sense of me?

There’s only a sense of me. A feeling of a me. I never find it. Thoughts about me and a body I associate with being me. But I can’t find myself in the body.

[Anastacia42]

Okay, so about that "body."


Introductory Body Exercise

Sit with eyes closed for about 15 minutes. Paying attention only to the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images:

Can it be known how tall the body is? Does the body have a weight or volume? In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing? Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

Is there an inside or an outside? If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly? If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to? What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

Look very carefully, especially with the last question. Take your time, don’t rush. You can look several times during the day while doing other things (like washing hands, showering, having a short break from work, walking, etc) before replying.

Loving,

[SarahLuna]

Now, I’d like to ask you to explore this SENSE of self very-very thoroughly. Not by thinking about it, but by FEELING it. Keep the focus of attention on the sense of self and inquire:

Does the sense of self have a location?

Does the sense of self have a shape or a size?

Does the sense of self say or communicate anything?

If the answer is yes, how does the sense do this exactly?

Does the sense of self have any characteristics or attributes?

What is the sense of self ‘made of’? An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? Thought?

What is found?

I didn’t reply to this part of your post yesterday. I have been feeling quite sad and lost so it’s hard to motivate myself to keep going.

Location: I am drawn to my jaw, but I know that this is where I store repressed anger. In some ways it feels like everywhere. In some ways behind my eyes where I am looking from.

Shape/size: This is when I sense it to be everywhere.

Communication: it appears to be scared, alone etc, but I know this is trauma.

Characteristics: I perceive it as awareness now, and at the same time I notice a tightening in my chest.

Made of: Nothing I can label.

[SarahLuna]

Body exercise:

Can it be known how tall the body is? Does the body have a weight or volume? In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

No. I find it hard not to superimpose a visualisation of the busy onto the sensations, but when I only experience sensations there is none of this.

I think I have done this exercise and it’s definitely worth repeating. I need to see again and again!

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing? Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

Just sensation.

Is there an inside or an outside? If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly? If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?

Only when I visualise the body with the sensations. But that’s thought.

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to? What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

I only know it through senses. Thoughts tell me things about it, but this if not actual experience.

[Anastacia42]

Hi,

it appears to be scared, alone etc, but I know this is trauma.

So, what is "trauma?" What is it made of?

Loving,

[Anastacia42]

Hi,

Not sure what "trauma" is?

"Trauma is nothing more than being stuck in what you believe."

Byron Katie

proven by the question: who would you be without that thought?

Happy to discuss. This quote upset a lot of people when I posted it on Facebook, but you will find that it is true.

Loving,

[SarahLuna]

So, what is "trauma?" What is it made of?

Energy stored in the body. It creates beliefs, I suppose, to keep the body safe.

Yes, I can see how the quote would upset people on Facebook. Trauma creates identity, which is a specific type of belief. Animals experience trauma but don’t necessarily have beliefs that they get stuck in. Wild animals will shake the experience off.

[Anastacia42]

Right! And so can we!

Energy stored in the body.

No

It is simply thoughts we believe. Now that may create tension in parts of our body. "I'm afraid, so I have to be tense and ready to jump and move at any moment."But if we question that thought and it lets go of us, the trauma is no longer.

I speak from experience. I have incest in my history.

Trauma is just as much of a lie as self. It's just a story.

Ask yourself, "Is it true?"

Check for the truth or lie feelings we discussed before. What is found?

"Who would you be without that thought?"

I do not want to try to fully facilitate trauma release in the forum. And that is not what we are doing here. But if your belief in trauma is keeping you attached to some lie of having a separate self, that needs to be questioned.

Loving,