Opening to Truth

[Roselight]

Hi Alan,
So glad to read this and get more clarification, seeing. Thank you.

Yes. And it gets named so lightening fast that we do not realize it. However thought is a bit like a commentator at a football game. Whatever we hear being described has already happened on the field.

A pleasure to hear this so simply stated. I intuitively trust this and now it can be looked at closely. Love this. Feel like posting this in all its glory.

LOOK CLOSELY at experience to see whether thought
• initiates what happens, or

• creates a narrative, a story of what has ALREADY HAPPENED. And of course the story becomes rather dramatic by adding the “me’s” reactions, preferences, opinions, regretting the past, worrying about the future etc etc and thus clouding pure experience.

What is happening in your experience in this regard?

I had a brief interaction with my partner that unfolded quickly and followed an old pattern .I guess that was all just happening without any thought about how it would go before I approached him. And after the interaction, I noticed the thought patterns of “he is so difficult” and “why are we like that together” that really solidify my “personhood” and “our personhood”. Did thought initiate this? No, it just happened that way but once I felt the bodily sensations of unease etc., the narrative was explaining what happened and spread into the past and future.

And attention naturally moves towards these “physical” features of experience. But can a “me” be found that directs attention to whatever is attended to? It usually has a lot to say about them. However should we be awake to the minds games and LOOK - we find it's not what we thought.

Very helpful explanation and easily taken in. Question this me.

When you EXPERIENCE them DIRECTLY is there a "me" that is an actual intermediary that can be found?

As I feel into the felt sense associated with the event above, there is no me, only a story of how those sensations came to be and what they mean to me and this reminds me of …etc.
I can feel into the sensation of “pressure” or “squeeze” or “no air” within the body. No one is doing this, it is happening. If I stay with the internal sensations, they feel like they are floating in the space all around, but feels located near the torso.

Could it be that this sense of me is just a thought?

The sense of me that “ feels” the sensations, seems located in my head and very much a thought. I feel a string of thoughts all associated and linked in some way. “Evidence” that this is a me that things happen to, including these sensations that result from an interaction.

And is it rather that mind takes hold and reasons that since there seems to be a "me", that a “me” must then exist?

Yes, the mind assumes this, given all the seeming evidence that makes “sense” that a me does exist. I guess it’s just doing its job, making life easier when the explanation is that we all have a me.

No need to try and get rid of the "seems to be" feeling.

I appreciate the clarification of this tendency. Lately it’s been feeling like “Oh yes, I can sense a me-ness right now” Like a stepping out of the me-ness and seeing it. What’s stepping out?? Is this another thought?

Were you able to find and feel "Rose" in a direct way like the other parts of your body?

Not as strong as the other parts of my body, but there was a sense of a habitual pointing towards the whole body “ This is Rose”. It almost felt like, yes, like a habit. The sense of Rose is not direct, it felt like “well of course you are here Rose!” It came in as a "whiff" of some sort, but definitely wanted to be "known".

Where is it?

I noticed the location was the whole body but my finger pointed to my solar plexis./heart center area.

What did you find?

As I ask “Where are you Rose?” There’s the checking of the solar plexis and staying with it. Silence becomes more prominent . I do not feel any boundary/heaviness in the chest. No one is answering in sensation or word.

Something?

There’s nothing here.

Anything?

No response, no sensation

Nothing?

The body can be sensed right now. There is no response to “Where are you Rose?” No thoughts. Going more silent.

What sensations did you feel in your body that identified "Rose” (If any).

Felt like an overall “recognition” of Rose or what should be Rose “floating near” the SP/heart area.

Tell me what you experienced and found, by way of direct experience.

As I felt the body in the exercise, I could easily feel into the different parts, focus on them, the parts were moved. When the asking came to “Rose”, I noticed an almost spontaneous pointing to “me”, without a strong felt sense in the body. It seemed like the whole body was involved in “Rose-ness”. This is “me”. A mist of “me” or perfume. As I stayed with it, as it is now, I feel more empty and mind is more vacant. “Me” is still here but “me” is relaxed and loose. So when I ask about Rose, there’s not much here, very quiet, no felt body sensations now.

So I ask “Where is Rose now?” Nothing here.

There is doubt noticed here, probably a thought like "Is the nothingness I feel when I ask about Rose, the truth? "

Also, I have noticed since the retreat( but it coincided with our work Alan), I am bit more challenged cognitively in daily activities. I function fine in my job but certain other things are not really that important to me and I don't examine some things very carefully. I have to go slow and take time to "function" with appointments, responding to emails promptly. It's not that I don't want to "do it", but I just don't have it on my radar as much. So, unless this is dementia setting in after 2 weeks, it may be our work or our looking in addition to a retreat. Just thought I'd mention it. It feels abit like some other part of this being is operating and the mind isn't as active as it usually is.

Finally, I will be traveling to a conference tomorrow (Friday) and if you have comments, I can read them on the plane. I may be slow in responding, tomorrow due to travel, however, wanted to let you know. I'd like to keep our daily contact during the conference if I can (if it fits for you too).

Thank you so much.
Love, Rose

[Alless]

Love the honesty that is felt in all your responses Rose

I’ll jump to near the end first and then come back to other comments.

Also, I have noticed since the retreat( but it coincided with our work Alan), I am bit more challenged cognitively in daily activities. I function fine in my job but certain other things are not really that important to me and I don't examine some things very carefully. I have to go slow and take time to "function" with appointments, responding to emails promptly. It's not that I don't want to "do it", but I just don't have it on my radar as much. So, unless this is dementia setting in after 2 weeks, it may be our work or our looking in addition to a retreat. Just thought I'd mention it. It feels abit like some other part of this being is operating and the mind isn't as active as it usually is.

Fascinating !! Recently there was a conversation about this very thing with some folks who, having seen there is no “me”, were talking about Memory "problems" & direct experiencing

Some of their experiences were very much in line with what you describe here. So you’re in good company !!

One person said that “My memory is fine when it comes to practical and work-related stuff.” But old memories seem to be gone.

Someone else … “My poor mum phones for a chat "what have you been up to?", me: "dunno, nothing much, working...." and I genuinely can't remember anything that has happened recently ”

And another ….. “I was known to remember *everything* (obviously not important stuff) and was relying on it for work. I heard before people were saying it becomes difficult to remember. I was even identified with the one, who knows so much. So I was a bit scared but went forward anyways. It was among the first things I noticed. It is mostly everyday stuff,”

Do you find that what really needs to be done still does actually get done Rose?

That’s how it is for me and a lot of the peripheral stuff just drops away. If that’s what you mean by dementia then I’ve got it too !!

Now coming back to what you wrote…..

The sense of me that “feels” the sensations, seems located in my head and very much a thought.

To help prove beyond doubt that this is a thought - as you have seen Rose - perhaps we can consider it this way.

Physically four of the senses which manifest experience are associated with a location in our heads – our eyes, nose, ears and tongue. So is it any wonder that mind says “Oh I must be in the head” This is reinforced by thoughts appearing on the screen of mind which is also seems to appear in the “head area” Is it any wonder that the mind will tell us that the head is obviously where the “I’ is to be found? And that the mind puts a label on this “place”. The mind can also label this apparent "head space" and call it “HERE.”

So let’s take a careful look.

Using attention like an xray take a good look inside the head for this “me” Do not touch or entertain ANY thought while you do ! What do you find?

Seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting and thinking all are happening HERE. Happening here and now. What is this HERE? Look “inside” the here. What is found? Is there any shape to this HERE? Are there any definable boundaries to this HERE? In what area or part of the HERE are the senses to be found? This HERE is so intimate, so immediate, so never changing is it not?

Could it be that the mind co-opts this "HERE" and labels it as “me”?

So I ask “Where is Rose now?” Nothing here.

There is doubt noticed here, probably a thought like "Is the nothingness I feel when I ask about Rose, the truth? "

Ah ....what is this that the mind calls nothingness? Is the label of nothingness simply a thought, as you have suggested, a concept that we believe without proof? Just because there is noTHING to be found can it truly be believed that this which is labeled "nothingness" is inert, dead, worthless, blank space? Is it not out of this nothingness that thought arises?

In this very moment imagine a bright red watermelon. Where did it appear out of and of what is that image made? Can you taste its delectable sweetness? Out of what is that experience arising and out of what is that experience made?

Is it not out of this nothingness which we might also label as this seeming substanceless substance that things that seem substantial and independent appear? Is not this nothingness or perhaps better described as NO-THING-NESS the very ground of our BEING? In all of this is there a "me" to be found at all which claims to be able to be in charge of and able to control and direct this apparently substanceless substance? If a "me" could be found, would it be made out of something else other than this apparently substanceless substance?

Don't let the mind try to grab this and work it out ! The finite can never fathom the infinite.

Describe your direct experience of this exploration as best you can.

One way of exploring this further is to consider the doubt you noticed here to be our friend in this inquiry and say to doubt “Well what a good question – there’s one way to find out. We’ll go and LOOK honestly. Tell me, doubt, where is the me? Show me? What is the truth about the existence of a “me” as an independent entity that is able to take charge of all that is happening?” The doubt thought believed inherently turns us away from LOOKING to find the truth. It’s inherent influence (if believed) is to join to other thoughts. The doubt thought believed will lead to being mesmerised by a cacophony of thoughts that leave us in the wilderness of deluded despair.

There is another aspect to look at here. Its like taking a step back from what’s being experienced. What knows not only what’s seen, heard, felt, smelled, tasted and thought but knows the HERE and knows all that is being experienced in the HERE?

Sit quietly and LOOK at experience in this wider context and be fully open to all the peripheral aspects of experience - just as you did with the SEEING exercise a few days ago when focus was relaxed and ALL that was within the field of vision became apparent. Watch carefully for any thought that might arise and cloud the seeing.

Is there ANY THING AT ALL THAT CAN REMOTELY BE EVEN LIKE A ME TO BE PINPOINTED OR FOUND? Please describe your experience.

One more thing here Rose. Remember your earlier explorations where you found…..

No “me” controlling the seeing, just being with SEEING

and so taken for granted, the SEEN I could not SEE

No. A “hearer” is only an idea of how to make sense of this happening.

Is this still all true for you?

It is so easy for thought to overlay what we have seen to be true. However once something is SEEN it cannot be UNSEEN. When we have a doubt spring up we simply LOOK again to see the truth. It’s a little like if we’ve been cooking soup and we head out on an errand. We then suddenly find ourselves wondering if we’ve turned the stove off or not. Typically the more we think about it, the more we doubt ourselves. The only way we can really settle the question is to return and GO LOOK !

I'd like to keep our daily contact during the conference if I can (if it fits for you too).

Thank you for the heads up here. Yes, I’ll be online whenever you are able to be in touch. If there is a bit of a gap I'll know why. Hope the conference goes well.

With love

Alan

[Roselight]

Hi Alan,
Here we go-

Do you find that what really needs to be done still does actually get done Rose?

Yes, I see that it does, but there have been a few “dones” that had to be”re- done” due to memory stuff, But, yes, it really all winds up ok.

Using attention like an xray take a good look inside the head for this “me” Do not touch or entertain ANY thought while you do ! What do you find?

I find silence and no structure called a me. There’s a sense of “this can’t be true” but there’s nothing found.

What is this HERE? Look “inside” the here. What is found?

It’s just perceptions that are kind of indescribable. SEEING seems unknown in what it is, not its content. As I feel into the hereness, I sense a mild disorientation (only word I could find). Like a focused attunement in the moment, that is sensed.

Is there a shape to this HERE?

No, it seems fluid and not solid.

Are there any definable boundaries to this HERE?

Not in the felt sense of the here.

In what area or part of the HERE are the senses to be found?

They don’t seem separate, they seem to “operate” together to “make a moment” it seems.

Could it be that the mind co-opts this "HERE" and labels it as “me”?

I “know” the answer is yes. I’m not sure this is seen though. I think the word “here” is a bit confusing for me. So I might say, the mind co-opts the sensing of each moment through the body and calls it a me. Maybe that’s too conceptual.

Is it not out of this nothingness that thought arises?

On a month long retreat last year, “ I “ watched thought and image arise out of this nothingness. I watched thought begin to form and how one thought was linked to another quite automatically. It seems very true from my experience.

Is not this nothingness or perhaps better described as NO-THING-NESS the very ground of our BEING? In all of this is there a "me" to be found at all which claims to be able to be in charge of and able to control and direct this apparently substanceless substance?

I love these questions/statements. There’s nothing in this no-thingness but no-thingness, no me or you or anyone. I can’t imagine what the me would be made out of??

Describe your direct experience of this exploration as best you can.

The no-thingness spoken here feels like a vast, open , quiet , soft place. This substanceless substance seems to shift and morph at times, but not like in movement. It is not describable. It is not known what is noticing the substance in this vastness. If it is the ground of our being, then we are part of the ground.
The me is not part of the ground but the substance, which at times I feel one with, is part of the ground.

Is there ANY THING AT ALL THAT CAN REMOTELY BE EVEN LIKE A ME TO BE PINPOINTED OR FOUND? Please describe your experience.

It doesn’t make sense that a Me would be found. Yet, as I’ve said before, there is a sense of this me, it feels like a vague thought, a lingering something. Partly because I can see the body as I LOOK at a wider experience. I see the sense of a separate body. There seems to be no identifiable thought though. And, as you’ve said, there might be a faint me still lingering? It may not completely go?

Is this still all true for you?

I do see more of the peripheral aspects of SEEING now. There is no hearer, this seems clear. There’s not a sense of a me controlling the seeing. But when what is read is:

There is another aspect to look at here. Its like taking a step back from what’s being experienced. What knows not only what’s seen, heard, felt, smelled, tasted and thought but knows the HERE and knows all that is being experienced in the HERE?

There is awareness of some sort of confusion around what the HERE means in this context. You seem to be saying that the senses are being known but it seems like there’s also HERENESS , on top of experiencing the senses. Like I’m trying to imagine awareness of the senses and “adding” hereness on top of this awareness. If the senses are being experienced by the “knower”, doesn’t this also include “in the here and now”? I haven’t got a sense of what you refer to as “taking a step back”.

I know I’m late with this, but I want to sort this out for sure.
Thank you again Alan.
Love, Rose

[Alless]

I know I’m late with this, but I want to sort this out for sure

I know you’ve got the conference so no problem at all.

I hear the urgency and desire here. And this cannot be sorted (figured) out actually. All that can happen is that it is SEEN.

There is awareness of some sort of confusion around what the HERE

Thank you for pointing this out. HERE, AWARENESS, KNOWER are all labels pointing to that which cannot be described. We could spend time sorting this out (and I am sure we could) but it would be a detour right now. However the beauty of this investigation is that we do not have to sort all these labels out to be able to successfully conclude our exploration of “no self.” Trying to sort those things out at this point will take us deeper into concepts and thoughts. Thoughts and concepts when engaged with creates “mind fog” in this investigation which inhibits SEEING.

The core exploration here is to see, in particular, what is NOT here. And that does not require thinking AT ALL – just LOOKING. When you see without a doubt that there is not a “me” then we simply rest in the absolute mystery of what IS and go with the flow.

SEEING seems unknown in what it is, not its content

Does this “seems” express doubt? Tell me from your DIRECT EXPERIENCE of SEEING, as you LOOK RIGHT NOW, what is there about your SEEING that gives rise to any doubt?

I find silence and no structure called a me. There’s a sense of “this can’t be true” but there’s nothing found.

Let’s break this sentence down.

a) I find silence and no structure called a me.
b) a sense of “this can’t be true”
c) there’s nothing found.

Which is true? Which has never changed, nor could never change or be ever changed?

There’s a sense of “this can’t be true”

Is this not a doubt thought again? Without this doubt (which is just a thought) look inside the head for this "me" again, with just PURE, INNOCENT, SIMPLE DIRECT SEEING.

Is there a “me” that can be pinpointed or found in any size, shape or form? Yes or no?

Look again to make sure. What do you find?

On a month long retreat last year, “ I “ watched thought and image arise out of this nothingness. I watched thought begin to form and how one thought was linked to another quite automatically. It seems very true from my experience.

This “I” which was the seer of these thoughts and images, is this "I" actually the illusory “me” we are looking for?
What is “doing” this automatic linking?
Is seeing and the arising of the thoughts separated happenings?
Is there a watcher, the watching and the watched?
Is there just watching (seeing) happening as one undivided, inseparable experience?

It doesn’t make sense that a Me would be found. Yet, as I’ve said before, there is a sense of this me, it feels like a vague thought, a lingering something.

I understand what you’re saying here that there is no one there when you look but there is still a sense of self.

Now, I’d like to ask you to explore this SENSE of self very-very thoroughly. Not by thinking about it, but by FEELING it.

Keep the focus of attention on the sense of self and inquire:-

Does the sense of self have a location?
Does the sense of self have a shape or a size?
Does the sense of self say or communicate anything?
If the answer is yes, how does the sense of self do this exactly?
Does the sense of self have any characteristics or attributes?
What is the sense of self ‘made of’? An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? Thought?

Ponder on each question and answer for each one of them separately.

I'll look for your reply Rose

With love

Alan

[Roselight]

HI Alan,
Thank you for getting back to me today.

The core exploration here is to see, in particular, what is NOT here. And that does not require thinking AT ALL – just LOOKING. When you see without a doubt that there is not a “me” then we simply rest in the absolute mystery of what IS and go with the flow.

The above is very helpful. There is a habit of "making a case" for what I see, probably for the mind and inner reassurance. What is understood is to almost bypass the mind and look here now. I am definitely new to this direct approach, just want to be sure I'm not "fooling myself" and "yessing " here because I "know" what is most likely true.( I guess this is doubt in a new language).

Does this “seems” express doubt? Tell me from your DIRECT EXPERIENCE of SEEING, as you LOOK RIGHT NOW, what is there about your SEEING that gives rise to any doubt?

My direct experience is there is no doubt the SEEING is unknown, unexplainable. No known understanding of where it “comes from”.

Which is true? Which has never changed, nor could never change or be ever changed?

There is silence and stillness and nothing like a me to be “found”.

Is there a “me” that can be pinpointed or found in any size, shape or form? Yes or no?

No

Look again to make sure. What do you find?

As I put the doubt and “hesitation” aside, there is no me. Again I find spacious stillness with no boundaries.
[/quote]

This “I” which was the seer of these thoughts and images, is this "I" actually the illusory “me” we are looking for?

I didn’t sense that at the time. The “noticer” seemed objective and more of a witness, similar to the substance less substance you have described. In answering the above question, the stillness is noticed by what seems like the same” observing something", that noticed the thoughts forming. And I do see that there still is a separate part that is observing, so even though it happens in the silence, is there a "me" noticing it?

What is “doing” this automatic linking?

Nothing, there was a seeing of this just happening at the time, one by one creating a stream of thoughts.

Is seeing and the arising of the thoughts separated happenings?

That’s what was seen. That instead of seeing/hearing thoughts, what was shown was, the formation of the thoughts, “mid-sentence”. So it felt like" something" was seeing the arising as the" something" was aware of the arising.

Is there a watcher, the watching and the watched?
There is a suspicion that none of that is separate. Although in the example above, An observer “was there”, so there still was some kind of a watcher. The watching and the watched seem united.
Feels helpful to take all this down to the studs and look. I’m outside in a beautiful setting and there’s a feeling of the looking as not separate from the flowers, trees and buildings all around.

Is there just watching (seeing) happening as one undivided, inseparable experience?

More so. Especially as this exploration continues. With eyes open, the body is seen and that feels separate from what is seen. But there is now a noticing of less and less separation as I look, still there though. Focusing “Internally” and eyes closed, there can be a depth of quiet where there is no one or no thing to notice.

Does the sense of self have a location?

Not that can be found.

Does the sense of self have a shape or a size?

NO ,this is a firmer no.

Does the sense of self say or communicate anything?

No, it is not there. Thoughts pop up and pretend to be a sense of self but they are not a sense of self.
If the answer is yes, how does the sense of self do this exactly?

Does the sense of self have any characteristics or attributes?

She feels empty and deflated right now.

What is the sense of self ‘made of’? An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? Thought?

When I reference sense of self, I "see" a thought form of my image and I can remember beliefs and personality traits. It feels like these can be seen through and are not really a “thing” with any substance.

Many thanks Alan.
Love, Rose

[Alless]

What is understood is to almost bypass the mind and look here now.

If I have understood what you say here Rose, then just one change to what you say is what will make ALL the difference. It’s not to ALMOST bypass the mind. It is to BYPASS THE MIND, PERIOD. AND LOOK HERE RIGHT NOW for a "me". No labeling, no interpretation, no comparing with the past (memories), no assumptions, no beliefs, no thoughts, no concepts – leave ALL THOUGHTS to one side for JUST A COUPLE OF SECONDS as you LOOK. That’s all it need take. The very best that thoughts can ever do is only take us as far as almost. And it is a thought believed that keeps us from seeing the truth of no “me”

There is silence and stillness and nothing like a me to be “found”.

Yes. There it is seen……. there is no “me”.

As I put the doubt and “hesitation” aside, there is no me. Again I find spacious stillness with no boundaries.

And again.

NO ,this is a firmer no.

What is in the way of unquestionable conviction? Some residue of thought?

When I reference sense of self, I "see" a thought form of my image and I can remember beliefs and personality traits. It feels like these can be seen through and are not really a “thing” with any substance.

You say

my image.

What is the characteristics of the “my” that is being imaged?
What is the content of this thought that is so convincing?
Is it in anyway true?
Could believing this thought / image be the culprit of the lingering sense of “I”?
What would happen if it was simply seen without taking it on board


You say that

“it feels like they can be seen through”

Seeing through them is vital in the context of seeing them for what they are – notions about a “me” that changes on a whim and tells us a story that leads to ongoing suffering. Dragging in (as you admit) remembered beliefs that color pure seeing in this present moment and thus thought is the uninvited interloper tainting direct seeing.

Is this "referencing a sense of self" simply mental?
Does not this mental activity act as interference and does it HAVE to be accepted in any way?
What happens if the mental activity is totally ignored while you LOOK?

Feels helpful to take all this down to the studs and look

Let’s drill down to the studs this way

Radio Commentator Scenario

Imagine listening to a radio channel about an event. Let’s use a sports event where the team you have supported for as long as you can remember is playing. There’s only one channel that you can get commentary on. It has come down to the last 3 minutes of the game and your team has its nose in front. You are on the edge of your seat. Even though you are not there, your reactions are still happening as though you were right in the stands. The commentator is giving a blow by blow description of the drama. All that’s is really happening is the commentator is simply VERBALIZING THEIR THOUGHTS ABOUT WHAT IS HAPPENING MADE UP OF THEIR PERCEPTION, THEIR INTERPRETATION, THEIR VIEWPOINT. Yet your pulse rate rises, the emotion is building. It seems as though you are right there. But all this is a REACTION to what you are interpreting from what you hear and it's only happening in your imagination. Yet what you experience feels as though you are there even though you are not. You’re hoping against hope that the commentator will give you the story that you want to hear but the truth is the commentator has NO AFFECT ON THE GAME WHATSOEVER.

Is not this what the voice in the head does all day long? The illusory “me” is the narrative that continually comments on what is happening “on the field of life” with its opinions, judgements, preferences etc etc. It feels so real. It feels so immediate. But the truth is that it has ABSOLUTELY NO AFFECT ON REALITY and how life unfolds. Yet It gives us a sense that someTHING substantial must be behind this.

Just for fun, or for curiosity’s sake, ask that voice what it is and see what it says. LOOK for the commentator, and wait for the comments.

If the voice suddenly shuts up, notice the silence.

This silence is not the absence of an answer. Its message is simple: THERE IS NO ONE HERE. There is nothing fixed or solid here. Thoughts arise and pass away and happen to no one. Only when they are believed do they seem to have an affect. Be very careful that as you wait in the silence another story does not start up and catch you up unawares. Could be a story about the silence even !

Try This for Yourself. From time to time take a few throughout the day, sit quietly and ask that voice what it is and see what it says Tell me what happens?

[Alless]

**Last line should read

Try This for Yourself. From time to time take a few moments throughout the day, sit quietly and ask that voice what it is and see what it says Tell me what happens?

With love

Alan

[Roselight]

Hi Alan,

I liked the example of the radio commentator. That’s just how it feels only now I know it has no impact on what it is talking about.

What is in the way of unquestionable conviction? Some residue of thought?

Some sort of belief thought about being arrogant and “so sure”. This comes up in all sorts of ways and is operating here.

What is the characteristics of the “my” that is being imaged?

How I identify as physical, primarily my face.
Literally an image.

What is the content of this thought that is so convincing?

It all reinforces itself. I SEE an image of what I have taken myself to be. With the recognition of this image, the thoughts of “who” I am come in. I’m believing that is a “me”.

Is it in anyway true?

As the image is being described ( a picture really), I feel it is transparent and flat. It’s a “thing” that appeared when the sense of self was brought up. Is it a picture of “me”? I honestly don’t know. There’s a gap in answering this. If there’s no me, what is it a picture of? Something in me has taken it to be “me”, and now there’s a gap of the truth of this. The gap feels like a space, vacant.

Could believing this thought / image be the culprit of the lingering sense of “I”?

Most certainly! If it is believed that that is a picture of me, a person who does this and that, yes, this is the “I”.

What would happen if it was simply seen without taking it on board

That feels like it is happening. There’s a sense of flatness feeling as I see it.

Is this "referencing a sense of self" simply mental?

I don’t know. If the sense of self was referenced when I was upset, it would impact the body sensations. But it would all START OUT in the mental realm and impact the other senses possibly.

Does not this mental activity act as interference and does it HAVE to be accepted in any way?

Yes, it is a way of coming between what’s actually happening here. I notice I am not really with another person if I’m referencing my sense of self, it takes me away. I don’t have to accept it and I’m curious how it is “worked with”.
What happens if the mental activity is totally ignored while you LOOK? I feel my body relax and what I look at/hear/touch etc. feels closer and more alive.

Just for fun, or for curiosity’s sake, ask that voice what it is and see what it says. LOOK for the commentator, and wait for the comments.

I can’t find the commentator, there is silence. I could “pretend” to talk back and recognize that is my own voice again talking to my own voice again. There is no independent agent on the sidelines talking to me.

Try This for Yourself. From time to time take a few moments throughout the day, sit quietly and ask that voice what it is and see what it says Tell me what happens?

I’ve asked this throughout the day, and it’s very quiet and empty. The habit is quite strong, and it must be a habit. When I was young I began to talk outloud to myself to comfort myself and this STILL goes on. It just happens. So I just see it and remember no separate something is talking or conversing.

Thank you for listening Alan.
Love, Rose

[Alless]

Some clear seeing here Rose. So good.

Thank you for listening Alan.

You're very easy to listen to :)-

Some sort of belief thought about being arrogant and “so sure”

Arrogance, “so sure”….. judgements arising from the tangle of “me” They then stick to us through the stories they throw up as well. That is until the root cause of these judgments is seen – the illusory “me” When the "me" is seen for what it is, judgements start to wither with it. Comparing drops off because when there is no “me” there is no reference point to make comparisons.
Is there strong sensations / feelings with these judgments still?

It all reinforces itself. I SEE an image of what I have taken myself to be. With the recognition of this image, the thoughts of “who” I am come in. I’m believing that is a “me”.

Indeed it reinforces itself ! This constant unconscious reinforcement is what maintains “me”. So good to see what you’ve seen with this Rose.

Yes, it is a way of coming between what’s actually happening here.

Ah yes the interloper that can color EXPERIENCING

What happens if the mental activity is totally ignored while you LOOK? I feel my body relax and what I look at/hear/touch etc. feels closer and more alive.

Clear seeing here in what you write in direct response to the question ! You say “what I look at/hear/touch etc feels closer”
LOOK again Is there ANYTHING like a border or boundary or division you can actually see?

I can’t find the commentator, there is silence. I could “pretend” to talk back and recognize that is my own voice again talking to my own voice again. There is no independent agent on the sidelines talking to me.

I hear you saying the commentator is “100% unfindable.” Have I heard right?

The habit is quite strong, and it must be a habit.

Habits – thought loops. And it does take time typically for them to lose their momentum. What matters if they hang around is that they are seen for what they are. Letting them be as clouds in the sky - that’s what counts.

Now here’s a question. Please write only what you have EXPERIENCED DIRECTLY in the search for a “me”- without the taint of thinking.

If someone who has never before heard of no self, asked you today about your experience of this exploration so far, what would you tell them? In particular

How would you summarize, for them, what this business of looking for “no self / no me” is about ?

Tell whether you have found or not found what you came to LU to look for ?

What are some of the key “ah hahs” in the exploration ?

What is different now today compared to when you started this with LU ?

Is there anything you are still skeptical about ?


With love

Alan

[Roselight]

Hi Alan,

Is there strong sensations / feelings with these judgments still?

I wouldn’t say they are strong is the area of worry of being arrogant, more so of actually believing the self is deficient at times.But being at this conference, old emotions and beliefs about interacting socially are quite active, as they usually are in this kind of setting. Comparisons, judgments of how I seem socially uncomfortable, inner dialogue around not being “chatty” enough to engage in conversation etc. This is no minor issue for “me”. I can hear the dialogue and have been caught in believing it part of the time. Then I come back to our work and “remember” what I’ve actually seen. So judgments around this social aspect and “how “I” should be” are still around and have been activated. Makes me wonder if something is hiding in the corners still.

LOOK again Is there ANYTHING like a border or boundary or division you can actually see?

I don’t see anything between me and an object. There is a belief I think that I’m missing some “veil” that is invisible. But this is a thought so, it is true I don’t see anything between me and the flower, for example.

If someone who has never before heard of no self, asked you today about your experience of this exploration so far, what would you tell them? In particular

Well, I have always believed that “I” was an independent person living life in a body with my own psychology and issues and strengths. What I am coming to see gradually, is that there is no “person” inside this body that directs, thinks, operates independently. All of that was learned and that we are substance-less substance at the core. This is ever present and seems to direct life as it happens.

How would you summarize, for them, what this business of looking for “no self / no me” is about ?

It's about a lot of different things. It’s about direct looking to see the truth of no-self. To look at the origins of the senses is a major one, especially the maze of thoughts and beliefs. It is to directly look in my experience if a “me” is here.

Tell whether you have found or not found what you came to LU to

What is surprising is that I can know and even see that there is a no self behind my thoughts but I don’t really feel any different in most ways. I have seen at this conference that I still have strong reactions to feeling “rejected” and so “someone” must believe this still. This feels confusing to me. If I really “got” that there is no self, would I be having these stong reactions? If I would be in my office at home, I might not recognize this is” still here”.
I did not know what to expect with LU, but I was drawn to knowing more about the truth and also to have a sense of a shift in perspective or identity. This has been talked about in the LU setting as some kind of a shift. I sense if I really saw through the self, I would feel lighter and there would be a noticeable felt sense of something is “different” . I feel this is happening a bit, but I see I still have some sense of self as I saw came out today.

What are some of the key “ah hahs” in the exploration ?

-Can a me be found that directs attention to whatever is attended to?
-Our commentator with no affect on reality
-More aware of the self as a fiction
-Looking directly
-Whatever we hear being described has already happened.
-The mind thinks there is a me and it is mistaken
-a me doesn't direct attention

What is different now today compared to when you started this with LU ?

I do feel more connected to physical reality and am learning how to LOOK.
I question many thoughts and ask are they true, and what thought them.
There is a watching of my languaging of I and me
I also am more in touch with objects through the senses and how they are felt/seen
I remember and sometimes am in touch with the emptiness that is behind the thoughts and mind.

Is there anything you are still skeptical about ?

I don't feel skeptical I don't think. There's a respect for this process and I trust that the self can be seen through. I don't sense I've seen through it, it feels like there is a heaviness still and can be a clouding in the mind. Seeing the way I was caught by the mind/self today makes me wonder about something not seen yet.

These last few questions seem to be an assessment of where things are?

Thank you Alan.
Love, Rose

[Alless]

Good to hear from you Rose. I know you are at the conference so please take your time with this and don't rush this through. Just let me know if you want to take an extra day.

beliefs about interacting socially are quite active

So judgments around this social aspect and “how “I” should be” are still around and have been activated.

Notice the expectations (more on expectations down further) that underpin the programming here.
Is there an expectation / belief that all the “old patterns” will instantly disappear when no “me” is seen?

I don’t see anything between me and an object.

You see no boundary so how, in reality, how can there be a "YOU" AND an OBJECT?

Are these not just labels in the oneness that is being experienced?

Is there anything to be found where we could pin a label to "me"?

Does this not prove there is no you?

These last few questions seem to be an assessment of where things are?

It is understandable why this can be seen as an assessment. The real intention here is to use these questions to help LOOK deeply and to help find what might still be in the way of full acceptance of the truth – there is no “me”.

Makes me wonder if something is hiding in the corners still.

That’s what the questions are about. To help LOOK for what is hiding. How does hiding happen? Typically unconscious belief results in hiding. Hiding in plain sight. We are so used to looking through them without being conscious of them that we don’t realize they are there. Once realized and seen for what they are they no longer are “hidden”

I see I still have some sense of self as I saw came out today.

Seeing the way I was caught by the mind/self today makes me wonder about something not seen yet.

As already mentioned above is this a belief / expectation about how things SHOULD be after the recognition of no self?

Expectations are real blockers to accepting and trusting what is seen. Expectations have us chasing something that exists only in our imagination. How could our precise experience after a recognition be known beforehand? If there are any ideas about how and what SHOULD happen, then they need to be seen and dropped.

it feels like there is a heaviness still and can be a clouding in the mind

Is there an expectation that this should not be there in this moment?

Does this heaviness dictate that there is failure in seeing that there is no "me."

Is there a sensation around this?

LOOK at this which you call heaviness. Sit with it and let it express itself fully.

Is this label "heaviness" just a thought?

Is there a hidden thought which expresses as heaviness?

What happens when you experience it FULLY without any story or thought about it?

Does it change at all?


Here is a clip to watch which relates to a lot of what is happening
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaLwaQEQZdM

Any comments about this Rose?


One more step before signing off today.

When you read the statement in red below, look for what comes up

Any reactions?

Any expectations?

And resistance?

Any doubts?

Here is the statement:

There is no separate self, never has been, and never will be.

With Love

Alan

[Roselight]

Good to hear from you Rose. I know you are at the conference so please take your time with this and don't rush this through. Just let me know if you want to take an extra day.

Yes, that sounds like a good idea, I would like to take more time and take an extra day. thank you Alan.
Love, Rose

[Roselight]

Hi Alan,
I felt these questions were helpful in that they pushed me in some way. I hope you can be patient with my doubts, I want to be real with you but wonder if my process might be frustrating. I trust you will be up front about that with me.

I spent some solid time with this and really want to see what I’m not seeing or recognizing.I remember that earlier exercise we did that had the writing in green and red and you were asking me to see what was there. It was like a twilight zone episode for me. You then explained what was going on, and I could really see it, but first I had to grapple with it and knock my head against the wall a bit. So, I thank you for hanging in there with me.

Is there an expectation / belief that all the “old patterns” will instantly disappear when no “me” is seen?

I think to say “instantly disappear” is too strong, but I do have an expectation that the engagement with the old pattern would be seen fairly easily and unidentified with and have less of a strong reaction. There are some patterns that are so worn out, they are seen as “not me” or “old me”. But that was not the case in this recent instance, I believed I was “deficient and unwanted” in that moment.

You see no boundary so how, in reality, how can there be a "YOU" AND an OBJECT?

There is a seeing of no boundary but I see distance and depth and dimension looking at the object before me. It appears to be separate visually even though there are times with my eyes closed, I feel more of a oneness. So even though I know this, I cannot in all honesty say that what I see is not separate from me. I wonder if “getting this” just takes a lot of LOOKING and being with?

You say: To help LOOK for what is hiding. How does hiding happen? Typically unconscious belief results in hiding. Hiding in plain sight. We are so used to looking through them without being conscious of them that we don’t realize they are there.

What is the unconscious belief here when I look at “reality” around me? I must believe that when I look at an object in my visual field, I see space between me and the object. I see no boundary but I must believe that the space between me and the object is there and that this space means we are separate.

Are these not just labels in the oneness that is being experienced?

I get that these objects are labels in the oneness that I see and experience. I get it because I’ve seen how we label things, and make them into a thought and the thought is empty. This is all knowledge, but how does that translate to feeling into them that way? I’m looking and still feel the separation.

Is there anything to be found where we could pin a label to "me"?

NO, there is no me around.

Does this not prove there is no you?

I think it does prove there is no me.

Question Alan, Is it possible to know there is no me and yet feel I am separate from objects when I look at them? When I look at objects, I sense I’m looking from space or nothingness, yet I sense separateness. Is this simply the trick of the eye that I take “too seriously”?

Is there an expectation that this should not be there in this moment?

Yes. I do expect that if I saw through self, there would be nothing for the heaviness to gather into, so to speak. I appreciate this being asked so I can see my expectation.

Does this heaviness dictate that there is failure in seeing that there is no "me."

Yes I think it does, as much as I don’t want to admit this. Like, if there was no me, why would there be any heaviness or anything that would stick to me like before when I believed in a self?

Is there a sensation around this?

Feels like an internal pressure, like a cramping.

Is this label "heaviness" just a thought?

Yes, it is a thought and a sensation from what I can tell.

Is there a hidden thought which expresses as heaviness?

“ I feel rejected and unwanted and unloved”.

What happens when you experience it FULLY without any story or thought about it?

First there is a sense of freedom and a lightness.

Does it change at all?

It is less dense in sensation, some spreading out of the sensation as well.

Any comments about this Rose?

Excellent! So I did not recognize my experience as what she was describing at the start of the video, my seeing of no doer or self.I feel like I know I'm not the doer but I kinda still believe in Santa. I feel there is no self because I experience emptiness when I look, but it feels more "matter of fact" and is more of a glimpse and intellectual understanding rather than a recognition. It is a brief glimpse so far (and that is fine). Or...I have a recognition that I don't notice because of a belief/doubt that clouds me from seeing where I really am. I will refer to this clip. Thank you.

When you read the statement in red below, look for what comes up

There is no separate self, never has been, and never will be.

Any reactions?

I “know” this is true. How does this get deeply known as in, felt so deeply that it can almost be seen? Some frustration here.

Any expectations?

I feel like I need to be able to SEE/feel this for it to be REALLY true as I look at an object as a no-separate self. This is unrealistic but it is an expectation.

And resistance?

I don’t feel resistance unless doubt is resistance.

Any doubts?

I can know there are no boundaries between myself and another but I have never felt like I was that other or that we were one. And if no one is separate, wouldn’t we feel a flow together somehow?

As mentioned, your questions (now and before) are taking me “deeper” into a truth I want to know. Each time I do a round of them, they assist in this.
Thank you for this Alan.
Love, Rose

[Alless]

Hello Rose

I trust you will be up front about that with me. ………I thank you for hanging in there with me.

I am here for as long as you need Rose. Guiding is about hanging in till it’s seen. !!! So please know that the frustration you speak of is simply seen as another doorway to explore. I so love your honesty.


So when you say that

wonder if my process might be frustrating

Is this wondering only just a thought?

Do you see how thoughts like this divert from raw experience?

When they come up don't ignore them or repress them rather LOOK at them directly and see what happens

I wonder if “getting this” just takes a lot of LOOKING and being with?

Only if thoughts are believed.

Look at this question yourself. Does LOOKING take a lot of LOOKING?

I don’t feel resistance unless doubt is resistance.

Bingo ! DOUBT IS RESISTANCE. Resistance is not accepting what ALREADY IS. It is denial of what cannot not be - because it already is. What an an absolute conundrum we create in our imagination.
Doubt is so familiar that it is not noticed in SEEING until we become conscious of it. We become conscious of it when we SEE it or FEEL it.

When doubt is recognized, what happens if it is simply seen but has no effect (not believed) on the SEEING?

Relax. Step back so to speak, as you go about your day and LOOK for these doubts.

Is there some heaviness that comes with doubt? Fear? Contraction of some sort? Any other sensation?

Doubt can have been with us so long that we don't realize it is an imposter.

Be with this meditatively and really LOOK. SEE IT AND IGNORE (ignore what it is telling you to believe but is a lie) ANY thinking. Just LOOK.

but I have never felt like I was that other or that we were one. And if no one is separate, wouldn’t we feel a flow together somehow?

We never can be the other !! There is only total uniqueness that is inseparable from and in the whole.

Remember hearing many sounds? They all fill the ONE hearing yet they retain their absolute distinctiveness.

Are two waves in the ocean ever the same as each other?

Are they not one with the ocean?

Are they separate from the ocean?

Are they not a happening of the ocean?

Are they not an expression of the ocean, made by the ocean and made of the ocean?

Do you see that each of us is an expression of life?

Yet we say “Look at that wave !!” Does that LABEL make it separate in any way from the ocean?

Are we not “waves” in this flow of life?

Does putting a label on a part of this flow of life create an actual separation FROM the flow of life or is that “thing” simply a way of pointing at a particular expression of life?

Look at the flow of life right where you are. Can you find ANYTHING is SEPARATE / OUTSIDE / INDEPENDENT from the flow of life in YOUR EXPERIENCING?

Give a response to each of the questions in blue then keep this question in red with you for today rather than giving you many other things to “do”

With love

Alan

[Roselight]

Hi Alan,
Thank you for all the insightful comments.

Is this wondering only just a thought?

I see that a thought came up almost simultaneously with a sensation in the body. “ Alan will find me frustrating, I’m taking too long and and have too many doubts”. It is only “in my head” and not a direct experience.

Do you see how thoughts like this divert from raw experience?

So the raw experience is my sensations, the thought describes an interpretation of the sensation and I get caught up in believing the thought interpretation, bypassing the sensations.

When they come up don't ignore them or repress them rather LOOK at them directly and see what happens

So there could be a sense of the tightening in the solar plexis, and noticing of the thought. I see there is more of a sense of being present in the body and and an acknowledgement of the fiction I have been thinking about. I sense more space and clarity about the experience.

Look at this question yourself. Does LOOKING take a lot of LOOKING?

Makes me laugh. There’s a belief I have to look harder and longer. But looking is looking, as you have been showing me. If thoughts are believed, they get in the way of looking and no matter how “hard” I try to look, I won’t SEE.

When doubt is recognized, what happens if it is simply seen but has no effect (not believed) on the SEEING?

I get to see what is there more clearly.

Is there some heaviness that comes with doubt? Fear? Contraction of some sort? Any other sensation?

Definitely heaviness, contraction, nausea sometimes, fear, head contraction.

Be with this meditatively and really LOOK. SEE IT AND IGNORE (ignore what it is telling you to believe but is a lie) ANY thinking. Just LOOK.

Just stayed with the sensations.
I found this exercise a bit challenging, to see doubt and ignore the thought. Even though it has a sensation, the essence of doubt is the doubting thought. They feel completely connected. So I guess what I am left with is the sensation that has no label.

Remember hearing many sounds? They all fill the ONE hearing yet they retain their absolute distinctiveness.

Yes, a good reminder of this truth.

Are two waves in the ocean ever the same as each other?

Never.

Are they not one with the ocean?

They are one with the ocean.

Are they separate from the ocean?

They are not separate.

Are they not a happening of the ocean?

They are part of the ocean and “rise up from” that ocean.

Are they not an expression of the ocean, made by the ocean and made of the ocean?

Yes to all.

Do you see that each of us is an expression of life?

Yes, this can be seen.

Yet we say “Look at that wave !!” Does that LABEL make it separate in any way from the ocean?

Not at all and yet it is easy to visualize this, because I imagine it as part of the water.

Are we not “waves” in this flow of life?

It’s feeling more and more that this is the case.

Does putting a label on a part of this flow of life create an actual separation FROM the flow of life or is that “thing” simply a way of pointing at a particular expression of life?

A label does not make something separate that is part of a larger whole. And I do see how the larger whole has many varied expressions that are unique. I understand all of this and at this point I’m leaning towards a felt sense of what is written here.

Look at the flow of life right where you are. Can you find ANYTHING is SEPARATE / OUTSIDE / INDEPENDENT from the flow of life in YOUR EXPERIENCING?

I spent some time just hanging out with this question. For the most part, as I took in my experience in general, it was easier to see how it could flow, be connected to other parts.
The absoluteness of the red statement makes me want to resist what is written and I don’t know why. It’s so curious that I push the computer away and want to resist this statement. I’m very surprised and perplexed. I’ve asked myself what is it about the statement that I react to? It allows no room to move, like” IT’S LIKE THIS!!” Like if I agree with this, I have to KNOW it without a doubt and be absolutely sure this is the case. There’s something like if I agree with this I will lose something because I’m not sure. If the statement said something like “Can you find any wave that is separate….from the flow of the ocean?”
Of course I would say, there is no separate wave even though they all differ. This may mean that perhaps I need to agree to something that I have not experienced but know on another level to be true. To be continued I hope…

Thank you again Alan.
I will be traveling tomorrow (Friday for me) so I’d like to take an extra day to respond to you.
Love, Rose