Laurens this is for you :)

[lcurteis]

Hi Vivi,
When I first read this this morning I became quite emotional. It felt that you were talking to me in a deep place. It felt so nice to be spoken to there and to be understood. Reading it again now it is the same reaction.

There are questions coming up in the mind but there is a deeper peace felt.

I guess the question is how does this become more integrated? Or is this assuming that there is an individual here who can do?

With thanks
Laurens

[dreamer]

Hi Laurens

Questions coming up in mind are simply thoughts arising - and as you write there are a deeper peace felt, dispite the arisen questions. The questions are not important, you can just let them come and go.

How does it become more integrated, only one way. FEEL it. How does it feel?
Look at it. Every thing I wrote about needs to get under your looking glass. Direct experience if it is so. Is it true?


I know how it is to be met at that deep level, glad it resonated :)

Keep in touch as much as possible, I will gladly guide you more intens through the looking and feeling, if you want to.

Warm regards Vivi

[dreamer]

Or is this assuming that there is an individual here who can do?

Yes it is :) Look and see if there are any belief of individual left as identification.

It already are integrated it is what IS. All you have' to do' is fully recognize it.

Have a nice day
Vivi

[lcurteis]

There is identification here as an individual in a world who can influence things. Ahhhh its just a projection a concept. An individual in isness. Made of isness but still an individual. This might well be a sticking point. Cs that doesnt make any sense. Is there no room for an individual? Or a sense of identity to be integrated?
I would very much appreciate if you will continue to guide me in looking and feeling. It is like a release every time I log into this forum. Something settles.

With thanks
Laurens

[dreamer]

There is identification here as an individual in a world who can influence things. Ahhhh its just a projection a concept. An individual in isness. Made of isness but still an individual.

Now look in to individual this individual in isness.
Can you find this individual anywhere in any form when you look without the thoughts - meaning without what have been heard, read, learned - what thoughts tell, what are assumed and believed.

Warm regards Vivi

[lcurteis]

I will continue feeling for another day and then message tomorrow.
Laurens

[lcurteis]

Hi Vivi,
I just wanted to drop in and say I'm away on holiday tomorrow for a week until next saturday. I am going to a retreat centre with a friend so hope to spend lots of time letting go and feeling what comes up when I let go a little.
I will post again when I come back.
With thanks
Laurens

[dreamer]

Have a nice stay Laurens, and thank you for letting me know

[lcurteis]

Hi Vivi I'm back from my week away.
I had a very nice week, I found it very easy to have relaxed focus on what is. Was also able to discern between what is real and what is only seemingly real and was able to allow the seemingly real flow through awareness.

This was great.

Back home now and I can feel those Velcro like tendencies coming up but am feeling good about it all.

Also during the week there was emphasis on Advaita Vedanta and I found this very good for giving a full picture of things and in doing so negotiating some doubts that often come up.

So yes just a quick update.

With thanks
Laurens

[dreamer]

Thanks a lot for the update. Nice to hear it was found beneficial. Where do we go from here? What is focus in this moment?

Greetings Vivi

[lcurteis]

Thats a good question where to go from here. It seems there is a certain amount of understanding of what I am, there is also a whole lot of junk, i dont know if you use the word karma, but all these behavioural patterns and thought patterns that keep coming up.
For this to be integrated further these patterns will have to break down.
So I dont know how you feel about this but...
I feel the best way to tackle this is for me to follow some kind of practice.. Mantra and attitude of karma yoga. While also being reminded often of the nature of reality. Maybe we could just continue to explore the different facets of this? This would hopefully incubate the intellect to be ready to live this fully in every moment.

Let me know how you feel about all this but ultimately I am a perfectionist and until this is fully integrated into my life then I just yeh I feel it would not be given it justice if it was still being filtered through layers of my crap.

With thanks
Laurens

[dreamer]

Ok Laurens.
That's nice.
This forum is for seeing through the illusion of 'I', that I does not exist. I think you might have seem that. I would like to ask you some questions we call 'final questions, to see if you have grown out of this Forum.
If you can answer the questions to my satisfaction, you will get access to some facebook groups, where we could look at what ever you would like to look at.....I would particular like to look at carma, with you :)

What do you think of this?

Wam regards Vivi

[lcurteis]

Hi Vivi,
Yes that sounds good.

Laurens

[dreamer]

The final questions, answer as detail as you possibly can, please.

1) Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?



2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.



3) How does it feel to see this? describe in detail.



4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it.



5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look? was there a specific moment when seeing happened or was it gradual? what exactly happened?

Warm regards Vivi

[lcurteis]

There is no personal I, an individual entity who is doing anything. There is only one but even to say one doesnt do it justice as one can be devised, it is the big O everything and nothing at the same time.

The illusion is a belief/attitude that there is an individual entity with a central location within the body who is living life from the limited perspective of an individual, an object within a world of objects. I do not know when it started but it is kept going simply by the belief/attitude that the individual is somehow incomplete, and that happiness can be found elsewhere. This in itself is enough to cover over the clear seeing that happiness IS and is all that IS.

In this moment seeing this again there is a relaxing, within this relaxing there are doubts coming up in the form of thoughts...'but why is there physical pain? etc.' There is still some vested interest in the sensations and thoughts but it is known that they are only appearing within this.

I would ask what their experience is right now. Any sensations, thoughts? Then ask- to what/whom are these appearing too. Depending on their answer I would look to dismantle what belief they are holding to as themselves.

The first glimpse happened about two and a half years ago while lying in bed ready to go to sleep. Everything dropped (like usual when going to sleep) but this time there was something there seeing being what was previously seen as nothingness) The emptiness was alive very alive. The perspective I was holding on to before then about life shifted totally.
Since then it has been unquestionable that it is the truth but old patterns and doubts keep coming up and these (usually) get brought into and then after a lot of pain (usually physical) are let go, the old sense of self is kicking and fighting all the way.
So you could say it was an instant timeless first seeing and since then paradoxically things seem to be deepening gradually into the timeless.