Inquiry

[JonathanR]

Hello Sabine

. I would like to continue and see what happens.

That's great. Ok.

. I don't want to give up so quickly. But maybe I should take this glimpse as a gift and return to my practice.

I don't want you to give up either. Could you let me know some more details about your practice please, if you are willing?

. Except for that glimpse, I still have „my normal, false selfe“.

No. You do not. That is the whole of the matter. There is no self and no false self either. There never was and never will be a self. Yes we could look at thoughts and sensations but the most direct thing is to simply see what's what, or better still what's not.

What do you think of that?

. The thing is, there isn't even a "false self" , let alone "the false self" It's the words you have used each time that make me keep picking away at this. And I realise this must sound horribly nitpicky, but it isn't.

If we think of the term Batman or Tooth fairy, we immediately tend to understand that these are fictional characters from a story but to prefix them like this: "The Batman" or "The tooth fairy" suggests that there is a real guy somewhere wearing a mask and cape or a real magic fairy somewhere, somehow. If we start saying "The false Batman" there is still the suggestion that there is someone , some entity, somewhere, albeit "the false one".

. I wish to awake from the false identification, to be free from the false identification.

Please could you let me know what you understand by this? What it would look like? Please give as full an answer as possible.

Thank you

Jon

[Sabine]

Hello Jon

I guess it's time for me to stop this inquiry. I am thankful for the glimpse of no-self and I thank you very much for your guidance.

All the best.

Sabine

[JonathanR]

Hello Sabine

Sorry you are stopping now. All the very best to you

Jon

[Sabine]

Hello Jon

I needed some time to sort this.

Except for that glimpse, I still have „my normal, false selfe“.

No. You do not. That is the whole of the matter. There is no self and no false self either. There never was and never will be a self.

There is no self. I was refering to the illusion of self, to the experience of an illusionary self. I know that there is no self, but this knowledge does not destroy the illusion right away. But of course I agree that there is no self.

Yes we could look at thoughts and sensations but the most direct thing is to simply see what's what, or better still what's not.
What do you think of that?

Do you mean simply directly looking for a self and not finding one?

I wish to awake from the false identification, to be free from the false identification.

Please could you let me know what you understand by this?

To see through the illusion of self. To realize that there is no self (never was and never will be.)

What it would look like? Please give as full an answer as possible.

Being without a self, else life continues, thoughts come up, feelings appear, life simply happens.
From the small glimpse I had I could see that it is truly just one step for the shift to happen.

I don't want you to give up either. Could you let me know some more details about your practice please, if you are willing?

Could I answer this later on? So many words and questions right now.


I'm not the type of person who talks or writes a lot. I hope short answers are ok as well?


Sabine

[JonathanR]

Hello Sabine

Thank you very much for your reply. Just no I'm not able to reply to you but will do tomorrow morning.

Best wishes

Jon

[Sabine]

Hello Jon

I would like to add something.

There seems to be some clarity about no self.

During the glimpse it was like: „There is no self! Will I ever find it again and get it back?“ So no doubts about no self.

Now it is more like: „Ok, whenever I look there is no self to be found. No one who is looking either. Obviously, there is no self.“ But then there are doubts, which are just thougts and these thougths can't deny that there is no self found when looking. So it is still obvious that there is no self. So there is some clarity about no self, but it just is not as clear as it was during the glimpse.

Best wishes

Sabine

[JonathanR]

Hi Sabine

. Now it is more like: „Ok, whenever I look there is no self to be found. No one who is looking either. Obviously, there is no self.“ But then there are doubts, which are just thougts and these thougths can't deny that there is no self found when looking. So it is still obvious that there is no self. So there is some clarity about no self, but it just is not as clear as it was during the glimpse.

Understood.

Such glimpses as yours are important but there are long habits of thought or "me"- association that reassert themselves almost immediately. With thoughts come interpretations. Inevitably thoughts appear that are interpretations of what has just been directly experienced (as a glimpse of no self). During the glimpse there is no doubt and no need to interpret. There's no self and no duality between self and everything else. But our education, and thinking are all based around the assumption of a ""self" that has "experiences". So it's common for thoughts to appear about having "lost the experience". But no self is not an experience. It simply IS. It cannot be lost. It cannot be gained. It cannot be experienced by an experiencer ,(self).

A difficulty arises where the idea of "getting back to the real or true experience" persists. There's no need to get back to anything more real or truer than what's happening already, right now! This isn't always welcome news to the seeker who has just had an amazing glimpse. No self can be very mysterious, very subtle. It isn't likely to be seen whilst any kind of strain to re-experience something is going on.

Please think about what I've said here and let me know, as fully as you would like, what you make of this?

Best wishes

Jon

[Sabine]

Hi Jon

Thank you for your answer.

Such glimpses as yours are important but there are long habits of thought or "me"- association that reassert themselves almost immediately. With thoughts come interpretations. Inevitably thoughts appear that are interpretations of what has just been directly experienced (as a glimpse of no self).

I can see that.

During the glimpse there is no doubt and no need to interpret. There's no self and no duality between self and everything else.

Yes.

But our education, and thinking are all based around the assumption of a ""self" that has "experiences". So it's common for thoughts to appear about having "lost the experience".

I can see that.

But no self is not an experience. It simply IS. It cannot be lost. It cannot be gained. It cannot be experienced by an experiencer ,(self).

I understand this with my mind. I also know this from turning my attention inward to that peacful space within, which is always there, it cannot be lost.

A difficulty arises where the idea of "getting back to the real or true experience" persists. There's no need to get back to anything more real or truer than what's happening already, right now! This isn't always welcome news to the seeker who has just had an amazing glimpse.

I was chasing another glimpse for a few weeks. Now I can release this. I am willing to release interpretation, expectations and comparison and to rely on direct experience, looking what is here anew each moment of inquiry.

No self can be very mysterious, very subtle. It isn't likely to be seen whilst any kind of strain to re-experience something is going on.

Mysterious and subtle, this is new for me. I had thougts about how it would be or would not be, which I am willing to release.


How to move forward from here?


Best wishes

Sabine

[JonathanR]

Hi Sabine

. . I am willing to release interpretation, expectations and comparison and to rely on direct experience, looking what is here anew each moment of inquiry.

That's a very good approach and it will serve you very well indeed.

. Mysterious and subtle, this is new for me. I had thougts about how it would be or would not be, which I am willing to release.

Ha ha! Well now you caught me out! I had no business attempting to describe no self as 'this' or 'that'. It cannot be predicted how it will be experienced . You are quite right.

However I said this to try to convey that it may not seem dramatic at all. It could be described as mysterious and subtle because it cannot be grasped or nailed down by the rational mind yet seems to have a life of its own anyway.


Ok to "move forward"...

Do you make anything happen?

What makes things happen?

Do you take decisions, make choices?

Is there Free Will?


Best wishes

Jon

[Sabine]

Hello Jon

Do you make anything happen?

No. There is no „I“ who makes anything happen. Things just happen.
While opening a letter maybe a thought comes up „I open this letter.“ or „My body opens this letter.“ But then it is seen that there is no „me“ doing it, and no one who owns or directs this body to move it.

What makes things happen?

Things just happen. If I look I cannot find someone or something as a source or a cause or an initial point. Opening a letter, doing a task just happens.

Do you take decisions, make choices?

No one is found who takes the decision or makes a choice. It seems to happen out of nowhere.
There might be thoughts like „Should I eat this or that?“, and then „I feel like eating this!“
But the actual decision just seems to happen without someone or something doing it.

Is there Free Will?

Obviously no.
If there is no „me“ making choices, then there is no „me“ who claims free will either.
Then a thougt comes up: „If there is no free will, then it is all destiny?“ No, it's not. At least we don't know. Things just happen.


Best wishes

Sabine

[JonathanR]

Hi Sabine

Thanks for your answers to my questions. Great.

So really I need you to tell me if there are any doubts about no self? Are there any remaining doubts that no self has been seen? . If there are any now would be a good time to mention them.

Can you say with a big fat "Yes" that the illusion of self is seen , beyond doubt?


All best

Jon

[Sabine]

Hello Jon

So really I need you to tell me if there are any doubts about no self? Are there any remaining doubts that no self has been seen? . If there are any now would be a good time to mention them.

Can you say with a big fat "Yes" that the illusion of self is seen , beyond doubt?

Seeing no self is not as clear as I wish it to be. I need some time for looking.

I will write again in a few days, if this is ok?

Best wishes

Sabine

[JonathanR]

Hi Sabine


This is a good plan. Yes , notice any doubts, no matter what they are or even if they seem 'silly'. It will help to air anything that is creating confusion and I will be happy to look at these with you.

Best wishes

Jon

[Sabine]

Hello Jon

It seems that a shift has happened. No self is seen somehow, even if it is subtle.

I need some time for more looking.

Best wishes

Sabine

[JonathanR]

Hello Sabine

. It seems that a shift has happened. No self is seen somehow, even if it is subtle.

Wonderful!

. I need some time for more looking.

Is there something,some feeling of thought that lies behind this?

Of course looking is very helpful for this enquiry but is there some feeling that something more must be seen, or that there's a need to keep looking or else the insight might disappear? Please do let me know if there's any thought like this, however slight?

Best wishes

Jon