A gentle kiss on the forehead, for the mind

[ankitawho]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I understand that that who I identify with is but a cloud of everything I am not. I understand that I am incapable of locating, or pointing to anyone living as "I" within me. I do not understand the self.

What are you looking for at LU?
Intellectualizing things has been a difficulty in the pursuit of truth. Recently a dull ache has arisen on the scalp area, and something tells me its because of "overlearning" how to live and how to be. I am looking for help to love/accept this intellectualization too. In my experience, roadblocks as such have come and disappeared on their own, but this one has been here for a long while and doesn't seem to budge. I feel stuck. Perhaps someone else's eyes seeing this with me will be of help.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I expect to be honest about any remnants of dishonesty in this "quest", and for someone to call me out. I have no other expectations really, I just wish so dearly for someone to hold my hand through this conversation.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I have devoured a lot of religious and spiritual text. Literature no longer "hooks" me, and the desire to sound spiritually wise has caused enough devastation and conflict to start questioning it every time it comes up. I have been seeking since I was a teenager. In the early years it was astrology, tarot and the law of attraction, then it became meditation and "mindfulness", then it became bible and a Course in Miracles, then it was the season of Bhagwad Gita, followed by Advaita and Buddhism. I see how each such "phase" has also been only a dream, a perpetual dream I keep waking out of only to begin a new dream, even though each one feels like "yes! This is it!".

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
11

[poppyseed]

Hi ankitawho
(is that what you want me to call you?)

Welcome to Liberation Unleashed :)! It’s great to see you here!
My name is Rali, and I’ll be glad to be your guide if you like.

Here at LU we assist in the exploration of the idea of the separate self. This is a guiding based on experience that brings a shift in perception and is not a debate. It directly points to what IS through the use of exercises, questions and dialogue. What is expected from you is to LOOK carefully to what is being pointed at. It is this simple LOOKING (not thinking) that brings a shift in perception.

Here, we are LOOKING directly into the experience of the senses, which is actually here and now, with the thinking stripped away. It is also known as Direct Experience (DE) or Actual Experience (AE). In this way, we are aiming to discover what is truly happening without the story we tell ourselves. For this process to work you have to answer with 100% honesty, and not relying on thought, imagination or memory - just reporting your direct experience. That would also mean leaving spiritual teachings, philosophies and science away during the inquiry. If you have a meditation practice, please feel free to continue with it as usual – it might come helpful.

Please read through “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU.
http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

When replying to a question, please use the quote function to highlight the question being answered. Throughout this inquiry, please answer questions individually, not in a bundle. Please watch the below video to learn how to use the Quote function. This will assist us in having a clear dialogue around the questions and answers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fAToDNh9hQ

It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. It will save you time in the long run, if a glitch in the system wipes out your answer.

For the sake of the intensity of the inquiry let’s try to stick to a daily conversation. Of course, life happens, so if you need more time, please let me know. I will do as well.
What time zone are in?
If you're okay with everything so far, we can start.
Love
Rali

[ankitawho]

Hi Rali!

My name is Ankita.
I am delighted to see your reply. I apologize for writing back so late... I couldn't find this thread and the email about it went to the spam folder. This magical morning I looked through it and voila :)

I look forward to LOOK :)

Please be assured that a daily conversation is not a problem at all.
My timezone is IST. I am more than willing to work around any hours if ever needed.

Everything is okay :) Lets please start.

Gratitude,
Ankita

[poppyseed]

Hi Ankita

Make sure that you are subscribed to your topic. In the top left corner, next to "Post Reply" there is an icon that looks like a spanner. When you click on it there is a menu where you can select “subscribe topic’. Click on it once. If you want to be sure that you are subscribed just refresh the page and if you click again should show now “ unsubscribe topic”. Don’t click on it as it will unsubscribe you :).

My timezone is IST.

I'm GMT+2. We have a bit of a difference but we'll menage ;)

Everything is okay :) Lets please start.

Awesome! First things first, let’s get your expectations out on in the open:

1. What will be different when you realize there’s no separate self?

2. What do you expect to happen as a result of this?

3. What do you want not to happen?

4. What are you hoping for?

5. What is missing?

Love
Rali

[ankitawho]

Dear Rali,
I am now subscribed to this topic.

Here are the answers to the questions:

1. What will be different when you realize there’s no separate self?

I understand that the illusion of the separate self is like a thick fog making reality extremely blurry to be seen clearly. I imagine that the realization that there is no separate self will bring about a clear, unburdened seeing of what there is.

I feel a certain dead-ness in everything perceived through the illusion of the separate self, and hope (?) that the realization will reveal the alive-ness in life.

Having said this, I wish to add that the most truthful answer to this question is that I really don’t know, but I cannot deny that a part of me does wish that *something* would be different after the realization - even if the change is only in this perception and not in reality.

2. What do you expect to happen as a result of this?

As a result of clear seeing, I expect that the thoughts that arise will be cherished a lot less, have less “sticky” hooks and will not be so tempting to identify with. There is also a little expectation of …peace and relief. I would like to experience an expansion in the ability to feel love and maybe openness.

3. What do you want not to happen?

I almost typed that there is nothing that I do not wish to not happen, but then if that was true then I would have no resistance to seeing through the illusion of the separate self, and would have already seen through it.

Perhaps the resistance comes from a mix of the following:

- The fact that all stories that make up this illusory sense of self have seen a lot of investment over the years, and popping this bubble will mean none of it is true…
- What if my mum is disappointed - or worse, confused and worried? She depends on me for emotional security a lot and that in turn creates a sense of having to “have it together” in me
- How would xyz perceive me? How will I explain this to them…?

4. What are you hoping for?

Relief

5. What is missing?

Relief

True joy

Clarity

------

Looking forward to your response.

Thanks,
Ankita

[poppyseed]

Hi Ankita
Thank you for your openness and honesty!
It can be challenging to become aware of what we really believe. The questions were a means to seeing what expectations you have, as everyone has some “idea” about awakening. There is so much information out there now with so many people sharing their experiences, and “teachers” preaching how it supposed to look and feel, that to have no expectations is almost impossible.

Your expectations are somewhat reasonable, but ultimately, expectations are a hindrance. They cling to an idea of how it is supposed to go, which is not necessarily correct, and this is why I asked you to read the FAQ’s of what Liberation Unleashed is NOT. When realisation happens, it can be very subtle and if there are expectations of any kind, then it can be missed and the guiding becomes very difficult. I can promise you there will be no fireworks; it is just a subtle shift in perception! The only true expectation, that you can have, is that the seeking will end. If there are any other expectations, it's good to acknowledge them and then set them aside. It is all much simpler and ordinary.

Perhaps the resistance comes from a mix of the following:

- The fact that all stories that make up this illusory sense of self have seen a lot of investment over the years, and popping this bubble will mean none of it is true…
- What if my mum is disappointed - or worse, confused and worried? She depends on me for emotional security a lot and that in turn creates a sense of having to “have it together” in me
- How would xyz perceive me? How will I explain this to them…?

It’s just a shift of perception. How can an illusion do anything? An illusion is an illusion. It has never done anything. Life expresses itself and "we" are part of this expression. In some way, we get the idea that we are life and we dictate what is happening, we think, we do things and we need protection but when we examine this closely, we see it for what it is - just a mirage, an illusion. There is no doer and thinker. Things are just happening. Fear/resistance serves to protect the imaginary self from harm. In this case it protects “you” from changing and losing your “sanity” (ability to have it together; how you are perceived by others). But let’s be clear here… why would the absence of something that has NEVER existed cause a change in existing stuff?
You probably believed in Santa when you were little. There was magic and joy, and love, and giving, and caring. When you realised that Santa is not real, did Christmas change? Did the spirit of Christmas disappear or just the belief in Santa?
Please sit and examine this carefully. Look at the idea that there really is no you; it’s okay, whatever fear comes up, acknowledge, honour, and let go. Look closer. Is it possible? Is it true? See what it is really protecting and if it is necessary. Please let me know what you find.
Love
Rali

[ankitawho]

Hi again Rali
Thank you for the guidance.

I understand that the expectations have served their purpose by bringing me here, and I see that their time is up.
All the FAQs were read.

How can an illusion do anything?

Indeed. Indeed.
How can an illusion do anything .....

But let’s be clear here… why would the absence of something that has NEVER existed cause a change in existing stuff?

The absence of an illusion would not cause any change at all, just like the illusion's (perceived) presence never caused any change either.
........
Sitting in this.

Please sit and examine this carefully. Look at the idea that there really is no you; it’s okay, whatever fear comes up, acknowledge, honour, and let go. Look closer. Is it possible? Is it true? See what it is really protecting and if it is necessary. Please let me know what you find.

In the beginning there used to be a heavy sensation in the chest as a response to the thought of a self not being there. Almost immediate anxiety. Now it feels a lot neutral, even joyful.

Gratitude
Ankita

[poppyseed]

Hi Ankita

In the beginning there used to be a heavy sensation in the chest as a response to the thought of a self not being there. Almost immediate anxiety. Now it feels a lot neutral, even joyful.

So did you find anything that needed the protection there? If you look for the I, what is there? If I say there’s no doer, thinker, experiencer, decision maker, or a witness, what comes up? Where exactly did you look? What exactly did you find? Please describe in detail what appears – feelings, sensations, thoughts, anything?
Love
Rali

[ankitawho]

So did you find anything that needed the protection there?

Not at all.

If you look for the I, what is there?

It is clear that there is no I upon looking. It is clear that there is nothing that needs protection upon looking. There is only a sensation... not sure what it is but if it were to be drawn with a crayon it would look like squiggly confused jittery lines. How can a sensation be protected... or attacked?

When looking, there is no doubt. However if not looking, the sense of "someone" needing protection seems to come back, although quite faintly. If not looking, this sense (the squiggly confused jitteriness mentioned previously) seems to be concentrated very strongly behind the eye area.. sometimes its even heavy/ pressuring.

On looking again, it almost "pops" away.

If I say there’s no doer, thinker, experiencer, decision maker, or a witness, what comes up?

The immediate response is to look again (as if to check again) and the "popping" of the sense one more time. On not looking, this time there is a heaviness around the chest.

Where exactly did you look? What exactly did you find?

There is no physical location, just a "looking towards" the sense of someone (behind the eyes maybe..).
Only emptiness, transparentness is found.

[poppyseed]

Hi Ankita
Lovely!
Before we begin let’s just make sure that you understand how to LOOK for no self in the exercises:
There is a BIG difference between knowing that there is nothing and seeing that there is nothing.
Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to answer:
1. You can think about it, trying to remember, or guessing what color they are.
2. You can have a look at your socks and see what color they ACTUALLY are!
You will agree that only by looking you could be 100% certain, right?

For the purpose of this inquiry, it is crucial that you are clear about this difference in the two ways of answering and stick only to the second way. We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on. We are only interested in Direct (Actual) Experience (DE/AE)- the experience right now and right here.

Direct or Actual Experience is:

Seeing
Hearing
Sensing (not emotion - emotion is sensation plus thoughts/labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content, what the thought is ABOUT)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.
Here's an exercise for you to get super clear on what direct experience is. You can use this photo of an apple or a real apple.

Have a look at an apple. When ‘looking at an apple’, there's color, a thought saying ‘apple,' and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple." What about the content of thoughts, what they describe? While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT cannot be found in direct or actual experience. Direct, actual experience is sound, thought, color(sight), smell, taste and sensation.

Taste labelled ‘apple’ is known
Color (visual information) labelled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labelled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labelled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known
However, is 'an apple' actually known? (Or is it just a label?) Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’? Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?
Love
Rali

[ankitawho]

You will agree that only by looking you could be 100% certain, right?

Yes, I agree.

Direct or Actual Experience is:

Seeing
Hearing
Sensing (not emotion - emotion is sensation plus thoughts/labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content, what the thought is ABOUT)

Understood.

However, is 'an apple' actually known? (Or is it just a label?) Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

Only a colour/shape (seeing) and a thought (that it may have a certain texture or taste a certain way) is there.

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?
No. Only a colour/shape(seeing) with a thought (mental model). "Apple" is not one among the list of 6 things in AE/DE.

[poppyseed]

Hi Ankita

Only a colour/shape (seeing) and a thought (that it may have a certain texture or taste a certain way) is there.

Really good!
Just to ensure that you are crystal clear about DE and labels related to it...here's an exercise that you can try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities, objects and emotions simply as colour/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought as per the apple example.
For example, when having coffee in the morning, become aware of:
Seeing a cup, simply= image/color (just seeing)
Smelling coffee, simply = smell (just smelling)
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation (just sensing)
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste (just tasting)
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound (just hearing)
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought (just thinking)

Break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists EXACTLY like the one above. Please write a few examples from your daily life.
Love
Rali

[ankitawho]

Okay Rali, I will be doing this exercise and report back :)

A thought occured asking whether "speaking" is a Direct Experience? Then LOOKED and found only sound (hearing).

[ankitawho]

There was a sickness this morning so:
Taking the medicine = sensation (just sensing, tasting)
Lying on the bed = sensation (just sensing)
Thinking about why the head hurts = thought (just thinking)
Feeling hot from a fever = sensation (just sensing)

Working later:
Looking at fairy lights = Sight (just seeing)
Working on an assignment = Sight, Thoughts (seeing the text, thinking about the text)
Feeling anxious = sensation (just sensing)
Picking up a book = sensation (just sensing)
Underlining in the book = sight, thoughts, sensation (seeing text, thinking about what to underline, sensing the grip on the pen and its movement)

Cleaning the room:
Picking up boxes to organize them = sensation (just sensing)
Thinking about how to organize boxes = thoughts (just thinking)
Thinking about why the room gets dirty so quickly = thoughts (just thinking)
Feeling happy about a clean room = sensation (just sensing)

Yoga:
Doing an asana = sensation (just sensing)
Experiencing struggle with some asanas = sensation (just sensing)
Thinking about how stretched out time feels = thought (just thinking)


:)

[poppyseed]

Hi Ankita
Very good!

Taking the medicine = sensation (just sensing, tasting)

That’s more like sensation + taste (just sensing and tasting)

Feeling anxious = sensation (just sensing)

Feeling anxious = sensation +thought (just sensing + thinking)

Underlining in the book = sight, thoughts, sensation (seeing text, thinking about what to underline, sensing the grip on the pen and its movement)

Underlining in the book = sight, thoughts, sensation (just seeing, thinking and sensing) - the rest is still labelling the experience

Let’s explore ‘body’ and sensing:
1. Take something cold from the fridge – like a can of cooldrink. When you touch the can, what does more accurately describe your experience – a. Your fingers feeling cold because of touching a cold can; or b. Coldness - sensation labelled “cold”? With eyes closed, where does the cold appear? Observe the order in which the details appear
2. Sit on a chair and close your eyes. Are there two sensations – one of you bum and one of the chair, or just one sensation labelled “bum on a chair” or just “chair”? Where is the line that separates the sensation from the chair? Is the sensation separate from sensing? LOOK closely and with curiosity each of these questions
Love
Rali