Ah, I seem to have forgotten something!

[LostOntology]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
The 'self' is a stable illusion that is constantly created through identification of thoughts and sensations (mental commentary, memories, emotions, feelings, histories, futures, preferences) with an "I". All that is, is--there is no separation, therefore no self to be real.

What are you looking for at LU?
I am looking for guidance--for someone to talk to. I am looking for help from someone who is on the other side. I truly feel a deep longing for a guide: someone to talk to rather than something to read. I am looking for someone who can help me understand how the "I" constructs itself and maintains this stable illusion.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
A few weeks ago, I had a glimpse of pure being. It lasted for about a day and a half. I now have doubts about whether that was an 'awakening' of sorts, but what helps keep those thoughts at bay is the memory of how I felt undeniably certain that this was the ground of my being.

I am hoping that a guided conversation may provide guidance on how to rest within that pure being again and how to stay there by refusing the "I" the smoke and mirrors that it uses to maintain its illusion.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I have done meditation for 6 years or so, on-and-off. For the past few months I have been more dedicated to my sitting practice and sit every day: I do a combination of noting, breath-focused meditation, and some of Gary Weber's asanas that are paired with breathing.

I am an avid reader of books. The book that gave me my first "glimpse" was The Way of Effortless Mindfulness by Loch Kelly. I did one of the first 3 glimpses and was immediately back "home" if that makes sense. This remained for about a day and a half until my self succeeded in reconstructing itself. Since then, I have been figuring out ways to get back. I'm currently reading Rob Burbea's "Seeing that Frees" and Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj's "I Am That" but am still in the beginnings of both. I also have a copy of "Awake" by Angelo Dilullo that I have also started.

In terms of inquiry, I have been practicing "direct inquiry" (as instructed by Sri Ramana Maharshi) as much as I can remember in my daily life--it is by no means consistent, but every free moment I have: during driving, lunch, walking to my car, going to the bathroom, etc.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
11

[Anastacia42]

Hi,

We can "talk" here. There are also some teleconference meetings that I'll post below.


My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like.

One thing I want to make very clear up front is that with me, you must post every day. If you know yourself and your schedule are such that you cannot do this, tell me, "no," and someone else can guide you, please.

Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you know yourself to be a skeptical person, prone to doubt, I may not be the best guide for you. I never had any doubt. I can connect you with one of our other guides who did & who can guide you better than I.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

***Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?

Loving,

[Anastacia42]

There are 3 meetings & a set of 5 videos you're invited to attend:

Thursday Meetings.

Hi Guys,

we are Luchana & Lubo, guides at LU.

Here is an invitation for you:

Join us each Thursday, 6 pm CET, UTC+1
and let's explore together what is already here.
Let's enjoy together this beauty called Life
MEETINGS ARE ON ZOOM and LIVE on youtube.

To participate in the meetings, send a request to luchanauzunova@gmail.com

You will receive an e-mail confirming your participation and a link to join.

Looking forward to seeing YOU!
Luchana & Lubo
__________________________________________________

Meet up with Vince (For LU seekers & guides)

Monday August 14

5am Sydney (est) Australia (check... time has shifted)
Every 2 weeks after that.

https://us02web.zoom.us/j/86991485768?p ... 12Um5DQT09

Meeting ID: 869 9148 5768
Passcode: 083035

Let him know if you want email reminders.

Vinceschubert@gmail.com

__________________________________________________

Ilona's Meetings

Next group meeting on Zoom is on the 4th of September. (There was one October 9. Not sure when next one is. )

To register send Ilona an email to

admin@ilonaciunaite.com

Looking forward :)


__________________________________________________

(videos)

Hi everyone.

Starting on 15th of October for 5 weeks I will post a new video of guiding sessions we had with Jim.
Here is a link to the first one.

https://youtu.be/gb6FwZ6PlI4

Liberation Unleashed Direct Pointing - The Gateless Gate

Ilona

__________________________________________________

Have fun with these. Looking forward to next reply.

Loving,

[LostOntology]

Stacy,

Pure gratitude. With all depth that words can muster: thank you, thank you, thank you.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

The disclaimer has been read! No being launched into deep space here.

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Done--I foresee myself revisiting this list multiple times in order to manage expectations.

How will life change?

I’m not hoping for life to change much, if at all. I expect it to be the same life that is happening right now, just seen from a different perspective. Of course, I’m hoping that life will “improve,” but in the sense that there will be less friction between the “life happening” and my reaction to those things.

How will you change?

I’m hoping to feel more “at peace” with the things that are happening to me. I’m hoping to have a bit more separation between myself and my thoughts. I’m expecting to go back to that non-conceptual awareness that I experienced so many weeks ago--the ease with which I lived during those moments. I hope to see thoughts “as they are” rather than how they currently dominate my experience.

What will be different?

In a way, everything, yet nothing. Overall, I think I want to shift from an understanding of no-self to the experience of no-self.

What is missing?

When I had that brief glimpse, I felt whole, but not in the sense that I had gotten something that I was missing: there was nothing to add or subtract; how could there be when all that is, is? How could it be otherwise?

It's one thing to immediately experience that, and another to remember experiencing that. Since then, I have (gently) frustrated myself in trying to figure out how to get back to a place that I am always in. I’m not sure that anything is missing. I suspect that I might have too much of something, and that something is the self and the ways that it constructs itself.

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?

Please call me E. I am on Eastern Stanard Time, UTC -5.

There are 3 meetings & a set of 5 videos you're invited to attend:

Am I allowed to watch the 5 video series as I am working with you, or would that be in violation of the housekeeping guidelines? I am, unfortunately, unable to make it to any of the “live” meetings.

With gratitude,
E

[Anastacia42]

Hi E,

Yes, you can watch any LU materials or things on our web site. We know those materials are useful.

You're very welcome.

Your expectations are fairly reasonable.

Please watch these 2 videos about how seeing comes & goes, please:

https://youtu.be/vJQcD588g2w

and

https://youtu.be/PUDzrCLlrj4

We're going to cover some basics & see how it goes.

Now, what comes up when is read that there is no separate self? That it is all a made up story?

Loving,

[LostOntology]

Stacy,

Thank you for those videos. They have helped lay to rest the frustrations I had regarding “seeing it” and then not “seeing it” again. I am just falling, and that is okay. I take comfort in knowing that this is how things unfold.

Now, what comes up when is read that there is no separate self? That it is all a made up story?

I feel a tingling sensation in my chest, in my throat, and between my ears. I feel this particularly when I read “It is all a made up story.” It feels personal. In addition to those feelings, the fear “It can’t be” arises, and is attached to another fear “If it is, I’ve wasted so much.”

Gratitude,
E

[LostOntology]

These feelings and these fears are all very subtle, so what also crosses the mind is the thought "Maybe this isn't the correct answer to that question."

[Anastacia42]

Okay, here's a video Ilona shots on fear for you to try.

https://youtu.be/jKX1llYtlKE

And this exercise:

Here is an anxiety exercise that focuses a person in the present, and in a part of the brain that cannot do anxiety. Basically, go through each sense and say (or think) "I see/ hear/ feel/ taste/ touch ______________." A minute or two of each and usually anxiety is gone.

I see the couch.
I see the keyboard.
I see the glass. Etc.

I hear the train.
I hear the keys clacking.
I hear my breath. Etc.

I feel the couch under my butt.
I feel my fingers on the keys.
I feel the cold air. Etc.

I taste a metallic taste in my mouth.
I taste the coffee.
I taste the food. Etc.

I smell the humidity in the air.
I smell my husband's shampoo.
I smell the soap. Etc.

As far as I can tell, the only time this doesn't work is when someone won't do it.

Let me know how this goes.

Loving,

[LostOntology]

Stacy,

Okay, here's a video Ilona shots on fear for you to try.

https://youtu.be/jKX1llYtlKE

I watched that video, thank you. In the middle of it, I had a bit of difficulty “arising” that feeling of fear, so I thought back to the first question you posed. That brought up that subtle fear again: those feelings and those thoughts. The dialogue with fear helped me release those fears. At the end, when I went back to those fears, they felt more like words on paper, fleeting thoughts, rather than the weight they carried at the beginning of the exercise.

I will continue to do the anxiety exercise throughout the rest of my day. So far, though, it has definitely worked during times when I feel a bit of anxiety.

Here is an anxiety exercise that focuses a person in the present, and in a part of the brain that cannot do anxiety.

The “part of the brain” that this took me to was peaceful. I found myself doing it even when I wasn’t anxious just so I would feel the wind fully or smell the air outside.

Gratitude
E

[Anastacia42]

Excellent! Glad those are helping.

This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.


Loving,

[LostOntology]

Stacy,

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

Yes, this is clear, thank you. I appreciated this clarification in addition to the third housekeeping rule of "basing my looking on Actual Experience." I do not need further clarification (for now!).

Gratitude,
E

[Anastacia42]

Good. Now try this:

u]Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities[/u]

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please. Same word forms. Same order. EXACTLY.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be.

Loving,

[LostOntology]

Stacy,

Walking
Seeing posters, simply = image/color
Smelling the mask, simply = smell
Feeling the tote bag, simply = sensation
Tasting my spit, simply = taste
Hearing the keys, simply = sound
Thinking about saying hello, simply = thought

Sitting
Seeing a chair, simply = image/color
Smelling my spit, simply = smell
Feeling the keyboard, simply = sensation
Tasting the mouth, simply = taste
Hearing chairs simply = sound
Thought about class, simply = thought

Sitting
Seeing a laptop, simply = image/color
Smelling the turnover, simply = smell
Feeling the chair, simply = sensation
Tasting the mouth, simply = taste
Hearing the video, simply = sound
Thought about teaching the class, simply = thought

Eating
Seeing eggs, simply = image/color
Smelling the eggs, simply = smell
Feeling the cold chair, simply = sensation
Tasting the turnover, simply = taste
Hearing the cars, simply = sound
Thought about going to the bathroom, simply = thought

Drinking
Seeing juice, simply = image/color
Smelling the juice, simply = smell
Feeling the liquid, simply = sensation
Tasting the orange juice, simply = taste
Hearing the liquid, simply = sound
Thought about the fridge, simply = thought

Eating
Seeing noodles, simply = image/color
Smelling the noodles, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the bowl, simply = sensation
Tasting the noodles, simply = taste
Hearing the slurping, simply = sound
Thought about the taste, simply = thought

Eating
Seeing the bag, simply = image/color
Smelling the coconut oil, simply = smell
Feeling the popcorn, simply = sensation
Tasting the popcorn, simply = taste
Hearing the crunch, simply = sound
Thought about this activity, simply = thought

Browsing
Seeing the screen, simply = image/color
Smelling nothing, simply = smell
Feeling the soft blanket, simply = sensation
Tasting the popcorn, simply = taste
Hearing typing, simply = sound
Thought about this activity, simply = thought

Gratitude,
E

[Anastacia42]

Very good.

Here's the next step:

(u]Mind Labeling Experience[/u]

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation i.e. is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example:

I am sitting on a chair,
I am hearing a clock ticking,
I am looking at a computer screen,
I am feeling hungry.

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example:

Sitting on a chair,
typing,
breathing,
blinking,
hearing the clock.

(Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

2. What is here without labels?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

Loving,

[LostOntology]

Stacy,

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

What was written in the second one feels truer. In direct experience there is only the immediacy of the experience and no need for an “I”.

2. What is here without labels?

Being—seeing, feeling, smelling, hearing, tasting, and thoughts. It's just--*waves hands around*--this!

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

Labels describe the experience. The experience is at it is without being affected by the label.

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

I typed much softer during the second activity. My body felt much more relaxed and not strained. I didn’t even realize it was straining in the first activity, but I felt it much more relaxed in the second.