Guidance

[SteveJ]

Hi Stacy.

Making a brew

Putting water in kettle - sensation, sound, seeing colours.
Image of cup ... seeing
Opening coffee jar... seeing, sensation, sound, smell
Picking up spoon...seeing, sensation, sound..

Whilst making a coffee Stacy, "I" remained in this background silence, aware of any thoughts arising. I had a fleeting thought "where is the spoon" then I focused more on the task deeper. automatically open the fridge, get the milk, I am observing "making a coffee" As much as it felt "me" doing.. no thought, just observing the hands, movement of body, sensations in feet, sound of kettle boiling etc.. enjoyable.

I will follow this task throughout today, will write up the happenings tonight.

Thank you for clarification on this task Stacy.

Can I also state that, whilst aware of this excersise, Stacy. There is an overwhelming thought "language is taught"
That if I can write it down, its a thought. I only think in my learnt language. Therefore If I wasnt taught a language, how would thinking wouldnt occur? I seem to have blocked out language quite a lot recently as every thought I write down, is untrue. Almost as if language takes me further apart from the truth.
Does this resonate?

Sorry for going off topic Stacy.

Regards
Steve

[Anastacia42]

Yes, language is made up. It's a convenience that took over.

Yes, anything languaged is a lie, a made up story.

Here's your next pointer.

Mind Labeling Experience

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation i.e. is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example:

I am sitting on a chair,
I am hearing a clock ticking,
I am looking at a computer screen,
I am feeling hungry.

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example:

Sitting on a chair,
typing,
breathing,
blinking,
hearing the clock.

(Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

2. What is here without labels?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

Loving,

[SteveJ]

Hi Stacy.

(Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

1st 10 minutes
. I am Sitting in armchair
. I have thoughts arising and I am interacting with thought doing this.
. Tightness in my stomach
. I can hear my Dogs are barking
. Feeling sensations in both of my feet
. Feeling my heart beating
. Confused
. I am holding the phone and typing with a pen
. I am seeing a variety of colours

2nd 10 minutes
. Sitting on chair - sensation
. Hearing sounds
. Dogs playing
. Feeling sensations
.blinking

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?


2. What is here without labels?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

1, the second excersise is a truer summerised account.
2, without the labels there is a quietening of mind
3, labels seem to draw us away from directly experiencing so definitely affect the experiencing
4,yes very dense, conducting the first part.


My word.. the 1st part of this excersise shows the amount of "waffle" thats going on in the daily thought stream.. I am sitting down, my feet are on the floor, the dogs are barkingblah blah blah, this constant prattle is discerning, uncomfortable and feeling stuck in wordplay..feeling of resistance, horrendous.

The 2nd excersise highlights the ease in taking the "personalisation" out of the equation. Brief and to the point!


Direct experience 1st excersise.. dense contraction in stomach. Resistance to why im being led into thought, restlessness, thought arises after thought on and on.
Reflection on this... not pleasant, constantly puts me into an unwelcome thought stream

Reflection 2nd excersise.
A truer account, easier to follow (better flow when reading back) still feeling within the thought stream (thinking constantly about task), though much more tolerable.
easier to write, like bullet points and more direct.

This has highlighted, how I have personalise everything by addition of an " I / me" very insightful Stacy, thankyou

Kind regards

Steve

[Anastacia42]

Good, Steve.

Could you please review the highlighting quoting instructions? Quote only the question you're answering with your answer *outside* the quotes below.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

Other than being very hard to read, your answers are correct.

Use the PREVIEW button before you post to see if it is correct.


Here is how to distinguish truth from lies:

We often lie every day & don't realize it.

For example, the grocery clerk asks, "How are you?" You reply, "I'm fine." While, yes. there is a sense in which we are always fine, even in the middle of suffering, at that moment, you were grieving the death of your dog, you had a slight sore throat & you had a headache, but you didn't feel like sharing all of that with the grocery clerk, so you lied, "I'm fine."

Also, it matters none at all how "distant" the remembered lie is. Besides the fact that time itself is fictional, a kind if lie, as we recall the lie it becomes present in this moment, as if it were happening now. This brings the body Sensation that accompanies lying.

Lies can be intentional or unintentional, conscious or unconscious, even so automatic that we ourselves are fooled.

The story of a separate "self" is a lie.

This is the lie you came here to see through. Therefore, it is helpful to notice the body Sensation of lying as one of the tools for finding the truth of no self.

You want to be in touch with body Sensations & able to clearly express them in words. This will help.

Lies are usually felt in the heart or solar plexus as a contraction that we may label as tight, heavy or tense.

In contrast, truth is usually expansive. We may call it loose, light or relaxed.

First, can you remember a time when you lied to someone you loved?

Here we count anything, lies we think of as "big" or "small" that "matter" or don't "matter."

How are you? I'm fine. No, your knee hurts, but you don't feel like discussing it with the grocery clerk.

It's a lie. A seemingly "bigger" one will work better for this exercise.

Find the lie. I don't need the whole story, just a few key words to refer to it.

Then scan your body for any Sensation (DE or Direct Experience), particularly in the gut or maybe the heart. Check very closely.

What is found?

If you think the memory you used wasn't clear enough, find another one or lie to yourself right now, make something up.

1 + 1 = 14 is a lie.

I love eating worms is (probably) a lie.

Or call up a video of a lying politician & notice what Sensations arise as you listen.

I will give you a clue: it is not that peaceful Sensation you felt before when you omitted "I." (refers to an exercise I gave before this one)

Please report back with what body Sensations (not interpretations) you feel. Bodies can feel hot or cold, heavy or light, contraction or expansion, etc.

"Peaceful" is an interpretation of a body Sensation, not the Sensation itself, for example.

Do you see that?

Loving,

[SteveJ]

"Peaceful" is an interpretation of a body Sensation, not the Sensation itself, for example.

Do you see this?

Wow ! That is so obvious, now this has been pointed out. Facinated by this..

A sensation is only a sensation yet I use various descriptions of what it isnt.

[SteveJ]

Please report back with what body Sensations (not interpretations) you feel. Bodies can feel hot or cold, heavy or light, contraction or expansion, etc.

The lie I recall feels familiar. A sensation ive encountered, these lies relate to employment.
Lying on my CV, Lying at interview.

Contraction in the centre chest,
No noticable temp change

Politician lying (didnt struggle finding one)

Same contracted sensation, same area of chest.
More intense, larger in size
Contraction in the head
Thoughts arise.

Funnily, reading this back, there are lots of words I could have used in relaying the excersise Stacy..

It would all have been around me, my interpretation becoming a story.

Thank you Stacy for your time. You really are appreciated for this pointing

Regards

Steve

[Anastacia42]

You're doing great, Steve. You're welcome.

Now try this to bring it together a bit:

Actual/Direct Experience - Apple

Have a look at an apple (or any fruit you like.) If you have a ‘real’ apple, you can use it for this exercise. Google for a picture of an apple.



When looking at an apple, there's color; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."

What is known for sure? Color is known and thoughts are known.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?

Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just more thought.

Actual experience is sound, thought, color, smell, taste, sensation and the fact of thought arising, but not its content.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in actual experience.

This is what is meant by "looking in actual experience." What you know for sure, and, is always here.

Taste labeled ‘apple’ is known
Color labeled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labeled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labeled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known

However, is an apple actually known?

Have fun and let me know what you find out.

Loving,

[SteveJ]

Hi Stacy,

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?

Im only going with my feeling Stacy, Thoughts cannot describe, a thought is exactly what it is "nothing but a thought" so a thought cannot have any content. All a thought does is identify the label, then goes off into itself with blah blah

Actual experience is sound, thought, color, smell, taste, sensation and the fact of thought arising, but not its content.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

There is only colour dare I say shape and then thought label "apple"

Taste labeled ‘apple’ is known
Color labeled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labeled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labeled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known

However, is an apple actually known?

What was an apple before it was named apple sprang to mind Stacy.

Only by directly holding or eating the apple (label ) will any of the experiance of taste feeling smell and sensation occur. Other than direct experience it is a thought

Im really enjoying this discovery Stacy, im unlearning (realising) and its beautiful
Typing this out I have a warm expansive feeling throughout my chest. And a thought popped up "this is love"
Amazing feeling experienced

Thank you so much

Regards

Steve

[Anastacia42]

Hi Steve

.Im only going with my feeling Stacy, Thoughts cannot describe, a thought is exactly what it is "nothing but a thought" so a thought cannot have any content. All a thought does is identify the label, then goes off into itself with blah blah

No.

Content of thought in this case is the word "Apple" and other thoughts about Apple. Thoughts do have content.

That "blah blah" IS the content. Content of thought is not AE, though. It's made up.

Other than direct experience it is a thought

Yes!

Typing this out I have a warm expansive feeling throughout my chest. And a thought popped up "this is love"
Amazing feeling experienced

Yes!

So let's look at this now:

Here's a pointer to look at "control. "

Palm Flipping Exercise

1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.

2. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.

Watch like a hawk.

Don't go to thoughts – examine your direct experience.

Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:

How is the movement controlled?

Does a thought control it?

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

Who or what chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

Loving,

[SteveJ]

Hi Stacy.

Content of thought in this case is the word "Apple" and other thoughts about Apple. Thoughts do have content.

That "blah blah" IS the content. Content of thought is not AE, though. It's made up.

That total clears this up, thankyou Stacy for clarifying.

How is the movement controlled?

I dont know Stacy, intention at a guess, honest answer is I dont know

Does a thought control it?

Absolutely not, a thought is a thought, thought has no control.

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located

?

There is no controller found anywhere.

How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

movement is just happening.. mind wants to claim the doership, however through inquiring, thats known to be untrue

I have sat with movement often recently Stacy. moving my fingers, walking, all movement of the body. It lies on a belief that there is a "me". knowing that pbeliefs are made up with thought absolutely proves movement just happens.

Who or what chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

No choosing Stacy, instinctive, no thoughts it just happened to be a free hand
(Realising even hand is learnt)

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

There is no seperate individual, no choosing.. just an instruction given and followed

Thank you Stacy

Warm regards

Steve

[Anastacia42]

Mostly right, Steve.

just an instruction given and followed

Not even that period sometimes it's not followed. They aren't even related.


How does it feel to see this?


Loving,

[SteveJ]

Not even that period sometimes it's not followed. They aren't even related.


How does it feel to see this?

Absolutely amazing, can agree with other expressions that I have read on LU.. "a feeling of lightness"

Noticing also decisions just happen, no one choosing, no thoughts, just happening, its so subtle in experience and a monumental realisation in fact.

calmness Stacy is so refreshing, beautiful (sorry for using expressions) sometimes I can just stare at things in awe.

Feeling of "no mans land" im neither enlightened nor am I the person I believed I was, what a facination mixed with curiosity im experiencing.

So pleased for the help im having Stacy. You have found truth, and have selflessly gave your energy supporting me with this.

Thank you

Steve

[Anastacia42]

Steve, this is my way creating world peace - one mind at a time.

You've seen that there is no separate self & no one to choose or control anything. You're feeling it, not just thinking.

We have some traditional "final" questions. Would you like to answer those?

Loving,

[SteveJ]

Steve, this is my way creating world peace - one mind at a time.

Ahh Stacy, I just sensed a beautiful feeling, Love reading them words, thankyou.

Stacy please can I sit in this " cant find the word" for a short period?
Before the question?

From this heart thats open

Thankyou thankyou x

[Anastacia42]

Sure, take your time. Let me know if you need anything.

Loving,