Seeking the end of Seeking

[Hopefulness]

Hi again,

Good work.

when does the seeking end?

When the obsession to find it collapses into curiosity about it. Just my experience.

Tell me what qualities-good or bad-this identity has?

[Govinda]

Hi again and thanks for your answer,

Hope it`s ok for you, if I share some more experience. So there happened "deep seeing" some more times, at last over an hour without interruption which felt very peaceful and absolutely free but nevertheless in the end there appeared feelings I`d describe as depression and lethargy. Not sure what that means and guess it doesn`t matter either.
And the painful thing is that this "freedom" comes and goes. It seems to sink deeper somehow and maybe settle in, but as described before this on off game is like an addiction.
I also notice the tendency to withdraw from "the world" even more as before in order to "be in this peace" again. I notice the social anxiety increase here. ... The last sentence caused laughter here. Not sure what that was. Doesn`t matter either ...

When the obsession to find it collapses into curiosity about it. Just my experience.

Ok, that makes sense.

Tell me what qualities-good or bad-this identity has?

This identity is absolutely unreal as is the nature of thoughts.

Thanks for your guidance. Can you push "me" some more please?

[Hopefulness]

Hi again,

This identity is absolutely unreal as is the nature of thoughts.

And yet.

I feel ruled by the ego mind, who seems to dictate my actions and thoughts. I cant escape it, its like I am obsessed. Asking for guidance please...

You haven't answered my question.
Look at an object. Describe to me where the line of "separation" is between the point where "you" stop and the "object"
begins.

Look closely,
Take your time.

[Govinda]

This identity is absolutely unreal as is the nature of thoughts.

And yet.

[/quote]

Identity of being a Seeker, Sufferer, not being good enough, not being wanted, being an outcast, a loner, being a loser, hopelessness.

You haven't answered my question.
Look at an object. Describe to me where the line of "separation" is between the point where "you" stop and the "object"
begins.

There appears to be more like a space between "me" and the "object". Looking closer this is a thought suggesting this. Actual experience is looking, pure seeing. Separation is suggested by thoughts. Sinking into This right now or it sinks in, rather sinking or falling without an object or subject. in direct experience relaxation happens, seeing clearer, thoughts lose hold. Hold on what?
Confusion. doesn`t make sense. ... Sinking again

[Govinda]

Identity of being a Seeker, Sufferer, not being good enough, not being wanted, being an outcast, a loner, being a loser, hopelessness.

Which are not qualities at all. Do thoughts have qualities? They have effects on the body like tension, fear, sadness, etc., but qualities in itself I cannot find.

[Hopefulness]

Hi again,

Good work. Good start.

Same exercise. Different object.

Sit outside for a few minutes. Relax a little. Now do the exercise again but this time the object is the totality of experience.
Notice the sky, the clouds, the trees, the birds, and everything else in experience IN THAT MOMENT. If thought stories show up in that moment just notice them, let them pass, and go back to the exercise.

Try to find the line between where you stop and experience begins. Do you find one? Do you find an actual Sebastian as anything other than a fleeting thought of separation or do you only find ongoing, persistent experience?

What is more REAL. Sebastian or experience?

Take your time.
Look closely.

[Govinda]

Hi there, phases of "seeing" seem to become more calm, more natural while Energy releases in the body seem to decrease.

Try to find the line between where you stop and experience begins. Do you find one?

No, no line to find

Do you find an actual Sebastian as anything other than a fleeting thought of separation or do you only find ongoing, persistent experience?

Can`t find an actual Sebastian. Fleeting thoughts of separation happen but they are fictional.
There seems to happen "ongoing, persistent experience" without separation.

What is more REAL. Sebastian or experience?

Experience is more real. Sebastian is a fictional story or thought.

Thanks for these

[Hopefulness]

Hi again,

Very good. Good work.

This can be a very powerful exercise. Stay with it. Write what comes up.

[Govinda]

This can be a very powerful exercise. Stay with it. Write what comes up.

Yea, very strong exercise. It dawned that all thoughts are stories and it was like there were sucked back in again. Felt very clear, but there was still the sense that there is "me" the observer in the background. Later seeking energy rose up and it became clear that as long seeking happens for something thoughts and "I" are taken for real. At that point the seeking dopped and there was left nothing as it always was. Felt like done.

But yea, involving in social interactions the apparent sense of self came back. very painful. I stick with the exercises. I am grateful for further pushes. Thanks

[Hopefulness]

Hi again,

Stay with the exercise for now. Stay in the present moment. I want to avoid the, "I'll get this on the very next post" syndrome. Write what comes up. I will know when to move on.

[Govinda]

Stay with the exercise for now. Stay in the present moment.

I do.

I want to avoid the, "I'll get this on the very next post" syndrome.

made me laugh.

Write what comes up.

It happened again that seeking fell off apparently while only life remained without separation.
Sense of self seems to keep coming back. only in relaxed silent moments boundless freedom seems obvious. Right now I feel tension in neck and spine and mind say`s that this can`t be it, but it is experienced as part of wholeness. Still not sure if this is it. Mind is doubting.

[Govinda]

resistance against unpleasant feelings is still being experienced.

[Hopefulness]

Hi again,

Right now I feel tension in neck and spine and mind say`s that this can`t be it, but it is experienced as part of wholeness.

Yep. Stay with it. Write what comes up.

[Govinda]

Yep. Stay with it. Write what comes up.

All Feelings and thoughts still arise, also guilt, shame, (self-)blame. Sometimes taken serious sometimes not so much. When there is relaxation and stillness peace comes, resting in this. Conversations with people appear to be very personal still, all possible feelings and thoughts included. Have been very tired today. Deep feelings of shame and guilt arose. Cried. One of the closest thoughts seem to be "I am a complete failure, unworthy of love and life". existential fear arises. Thoughts say that I have rejected life and humanness too much. Crying. Confusion. Stillness and a feeling of loss, guilt and loneliness remain. So far

[Hopefulness]

Hi again,

Time to move on. I work in the morning but I'll have something new later on. We'll look at the nature of thought, or what you'll come to see as the tyranny of thought.

Stay with the exercise on a regular basis from now on, but for now just answer this question to start us off.

1. Can a thought think?