I am

[AwayKen127]

Deeper Body Investigation

Here is an even deeper investigation of the body. Please follow each step, don't leave out any. Take your time. Don't move to the next step until the previous one is clearly seen. Repeat the exercise several times.

Stand in front of a bigger mirror.

(1) First, close the eyes and feel the sensations labelled ‘body’.

(2) Then open the eyes and look into the mirror while still paying attention to the sensations.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations and the image in the mirror?
Or just thoughts (and/or mental images) suggest that there is? 

(3) While still paying attention to the sensations move one hand and observe the movement from the mirror.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and image of movement in the mirror?

(4) Now do the same movement with the hand, but this time look at the hand directly, not from the mirror.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and the image ‘of movement’? Or only thoughts suggest it?

(5) Now, pay attention only to the image in the mirror. 

Does the image by itself suggest in any way that is ‘you’ or ‘your body’?
Does the image itself suggest in any way that it is a ‘body’ at all?
Or are there only colours and shapes?

(6) Where the mirror ends, some parts of the body (probably legs) cannot be seen.

Just by the image in the mirror, is there any ‘knowledge’ that there must be legs, or only thoughts and mental images suggest so?

(7) Now turn away from the mirror and look forward (don’t look directly to any body parts).

Is there a ‘body’ anywhere when all thoughts and images are ignored, or are there only sensations?

(8) Start to walk slowly.

Is there a ‘body walking’, or are there only sensations?
Is there actual experience of ‘walking’ at all?
Or just THOUGHTS ABOUT ‘walking’?
Can such a thing as ‘body’ be found OR just THOUGHTS ABOUT a ‘body’?
Can such a thing as ‘walking’ be found?
 
(9) Are the sensations localized in space, like ‘going through the room’; OR is there only an image that is labelled ‘room’ and appearing sensations without any location?

[suzana]

Deeper Body Investigation

ok ..
thanks
this will take some time...

[AwayKen127]

Okay, thanks for letting me know.

[suzana]

Hey Jeff
I sm still alive :-)

Then open the eyes and look into the mirror while still paying attention to the sensations. Is there any connection between the felt sensations and the image in the mirror?
Or just thoughts (and/or mental images) suggest that there is? .

There is no connection aside ftom thought

3) While still paying attention to the sensations move one hand and observe the movement from the mirror.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and image of movement in the mirror?

no

4) Now do the same movement with the hand, but this time look at the hand directly, not from the mirror.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and the image ‘of movement’? Or only thoughts suggest it?

No

quote] 5) Now, pay attention only to the image in the mirror.

Does the image by itself suggest in any way that is ‘you’ or ‘your body’? No
Does the image itself suggest in any way that it is a ‘body’ at all? No
Or are there only colours and shapes?[/quote] yes

[suzana]

6) Where the mirror ends, some parts of the body (probably legs) cannot be seen.

Just by the image in the mirror, is there any ‘knowledge’ that there must be legs, or only thoughts and mental images suggest so?

No no knowledge about it

7) Now turn away from the mirror and look forward (don’t look directly to any body parts).

Is there a ‘body’ anywhere when all thoughts and images are ignored, or are there only sensations?

No unfortunatly not :-)

8) Start to walk slowly.

Is there a ‘body walking’, or are there only sensations? Only sensations
Is there actual experience of ‘walking’ at all? No
Or just THOUGHTS ABOUT ‘walking’? Yes
Can such a thing as ‘body’ be found OR just THOUGHTS ABOUT a ‘body’? Only thoughhts
Can such a thing as ‘walking’ be found?

no
[
quote] Are the sensations localized in space, like ‘going through the room’; OR is there only an image that is labelled ‘room’ and appearing sensations without any location?[/quote] the second
Puhhh

[suzana]

6) Where the mirror ends, some parts of the body (probably legs) cannot be seen.

Just by the image in the mirror, is there any ‘knowledge’ that there must be legs, or only thoughts and mental images suggest so?

No no knowledge about it

7) Now turn away from the mirror and look forward (don’t look directly to any body parts).

Is there a ‘body’ anywhere when all thoughts and images are ignored, or are there only sensations?

No unfortunatly not :-)

8) Start to walk slowly.

Is there a ‘body walking’, or are there only sensations? Only sensations
Is there actual experience of ‘walking’ at all? No
Or just THOUGHTS ABOUT ‘walking’? Yes
Can such a thing as ‘body’ be found OR just THOUGHTS ABOUT a ‘body’? Only thoughhts
Can such a thing as ‘walking’ be found?

no
[
quote] Are the sensations localized in space, like ‘going through the room’; OR is there only an image that is labelled ‘room’ and appearing sensations without any location?[/quote] the second
Puhhh

[AwayKen127]

Hi Suzana,

I'm looking for guidance from you where to go next. You seem to have complete understanding of the illusion of the separate self. You see how it's created in the mind from thoughts. But you say the understanding lasts only a millisecond and then you feel like a planner, a doer, a thinker. Is that right?

Or is it bothering you that you still *feel* like the separate self is real?

Hugs,
Jeff

[suzana]

looking for guidance from you where to go next. You seem to have complete understanding of the illusion of the separate self. You see how it's created in the mind from thoughts. But you say the understanding lasts only a millisecond and then you feel like a planner, a doer, a thinker. Is that right?

Or is it bothering you that you still *feel* like the separate self is real?

It is sort of i have sensations .. i don’t connect it with the thoughts … i don’t label it with body … but this sensations are also bit different than the sensations of my balciny in front of me … akthough I feel the space is everywhere .. they are different forms … my form is different than some others … Even if we remain by colors forms without knowing what that is .. without explaining with the thought there is some difference in the forms … there I do see the separation.. my furniture is separate from me wit my eyes being seen
If I get deeper I can sense that everything is in this same energy … like there are different levels of perception
If the baby without labeling knowledge would walk and bump in the chair it will feel the hardness of it … it is separate from the baby .. it is something else … aside from saying this is a chair …
How I get from this sensing seeing the form?
There is this existence out of labeling ..
It is only going deeper and sensing the same essence in everything?
Hugs

[AwayKen127]

akthough I feel the space is everywhere .. they are different forms … my form is different than some others … Even if we remain by colors forms without knowing what that is .. without explaining with the thought there is some difference in the forms … there I do see the separation.. my furniture is separate from me wit my eyes being seen

You say there is some difference in the forms. How do you notice that difference? Please explain in great detail.

It is only going deeper and sensing the same essence in everything?

Can you find an essence in direct experience? If I told you I want to see "essence",where would you tell me to look to see it?

[suzana]

seen
You say there is some difference in the forms. How do you notice that difference? Please explain in great detail.

As I already wrote I see it.
I see that the chair is different than the table
Dufferent than my body
Through my eyes
Also I can touch it and sense ..feel the differrnt texture volume
If I go through the space with the hand there is a difference between air and cupboard etc
For me that is a sign that there are different objects .. separate from each other on the visual and tactil level

Can you find an essence in direct experience? If I told you I want to see "essence",where would you tell me to look to

I mean with essence the space the “one eye “
There is no place where we can find it … it is everywhere
Yes I can find it in direct experience… I can sense the space …the Nothing ….
The one eye we can call it.. but it is also a label of the Mr Lang or what was his name …
I can not point it out to any form any object and still there are objects to be seen touched Heard …cars … they exist or not?
This is my irritation…
That why I tried to let both things be here … the objects and the essence which is everywhere .. in and out …
Simultaneously

[AwayKen127]

Hi Suzana,
Here's an exercise. We'll get back to your questions afterward.

Sit or lie down with eyes closed, holding an object in both of your hands. Just relax fully and notice what is. There is no technique, just noticing. This may take 45 minutes.

When there is no sound in the room, is there still a sound that is always present? This is called "nada".

After a while, can you tell whether the sensation in your hands has a form? Without moving, can you still feel the object you are holding and your hands as separate things? Or is there just a formless cloud of sensation?

If thoughts arise, consider just the sensation of the thought. If the thought consists of words, then the thought is experienced as pure sound. If it is a visual thought, then it is experienced as shapes and colors. If anything is labeled, realize that is just another thought.

This is a good daily practice, which we can call "natural meditation". We just explore sensation as it is.

What is that like for you? Do you notice anything?

Hugs,
Jeff

[AwayKen127]

Hi Suzana,
It was great seeing you at Vince's Zoom meeting today! What did you get out of it?

I understood from what you said that you are focused on "taking it off the cushion"--recreating the meditation experience as you go through your daily routine. I once thought this was my goal. Now, I believe my energy was misdirected. This "problem" takes care of itself in time, but in a way which you can't imagine or understand ahead of time. Now, I think the focus should be on examining and seeing through false beliefs and seeing contradictions.

I'm looking forward to continuing our dialog!
Hugs,
Jeff

[suzana]

[quoteIt was great seeing you at Vince's Zoom meeting today! What did you get out of it? ][/quote]
It was great idea inviting me there and seeing you and others there.

I do want first to clear it once again...about us being stuck...and your need to open for others...as I asked u if you want that I change guide...you said no...although it was your feeling?? I will welcome the fact if you have said you dont know further...it is ok with me...not personally at all..
I have get many inputs...I liked it so much...I coudlnt sleep ..at 2am I slept...
It influneced me a lot
what vince said
what you said..because You knew me...already
waht paul said
what todd said
what berry said
what the other men said...i dont know the names
it was a break through
when do i get the recording of it?

I understood from what you said that you are focused on "taking it off the cushion"--recreating the meditation experience as you go through your daily routine. I once thought this was my goal. Now, I believe my energy was misdirected. This "problem" takes care of itself in time, but in a way which you can't imagine or understand ahead of time. Now, I think the focus should be on examining and seeing through false beliefs and seeing contradictions.

it is not my focus now. I am not meditating since years...and being off coushion since years...I do already imagine and know that it takes care of it self. i dont controll anything.
I do feel at the moment that you ...as the others in some sequences yesterday dont get where I am..:-)))) but no problem..thats why we are talking with each other...and I am very conciouss about conradictory in my words...

I worked already in the night with todds suggestion ...it hit the nail! with self inquiring in to the need that there should be always this counciousness feeling. or vince saying about my expactations...I have my way of inquiring...but I would like to know what exactly Todd think with it...do you know that? I would like to concentrate on it...but we can also do the false beliefs...I dont know exactly what you mean?
I tell you how I did it...
Who is wanting the disolved state?
who is iritated of contractions?
Where are contractions?
am I labeling it? what is prior to the feeling I have lost the one eye?
Who am I? and it changed
the part with berry helped me a lot...looking at his process...it was marvelous...

or can we have some mail contact with other people out of groups...so I can ask Todd to tell me how is he doing it?

waht did you mean with going to the other FED?? group...I didnt understand...
hugs S

[AwayKen127]

Hi Suzana,

I do want first to clear it once again...about us being stuck...and your need to open for others

I don't think we're stuck. I was just confused about where you are in the process and what you needed next. I have more clarity now. I don't need to finish with you and go on to another client. I have no quota and no time table.

we can also do the false beliefs...I dont know exactly what you mean?

All we do here, and all we can do, is expose false beliefs. That's what this process is.

Who is wanting the disolved state?
who is iritated of contractions?
Where are contractions?
am I labeling it? what is prior to the feeling I have lost the one eye?
Who am I? and it changed
the part with berry helped me a lot...looking at his process...it was marvelous...

Would you like to discuss these things?

Hugs,
Jeff

[suzana]

dear Jeff,

sorry of not answering here...I was on the travel the whole day yesterday

I have contacted Todd yesterday out of train......because I wanted to see about this inquiry what he said...but we can come back here...you and I discussing it...working on it further on...I am sending you my questions and answers to him...his answers not...or would it be better that way?

here is my writing to him
I asked Jeff if your mail … at first place ..because of the self inquiry what you mentioned to me on the meeting You said that I could do some self inquiry about my not wanting so many :-) contractions in my life.
I was wondering if you meant what I mean by self inquiry or not.

I did it this way: please tell me what I can change if…

Who is wanting only the “spacious space “ ?
Not the “one eye”....there is no need of not having the forms from the perspective of I am.

Who rejects every day forms? It is again not the I am ….but the wish of having it easier and fear of maybe loosing it.


How is the baby dealing … sensing the both?
Baby is not bothered by it. It even doesn’t experience it as a duality ...it doesn’t care about it. Everything is fine.

Is “space” ever away also if the everyday stress is being felt? No
hugs s