Hello!

[Luchana]

Hi Mary,

you did a lovely investigation with resistance.

Asking these questions, thoughts came up about fearing the failure of not actually seeing no self. Like if the resistance to dive into the investigation, to look directly, arose to manifest the belief of not being able to see.

Right...
Notice - is there is an idea, a belief that there should be seeing "no-self"?
Is it possible to see something which doesn't exist?

But these are all thoughts. More and more stories. It's seems even silly to share this right now. Nothing other than thoughts are found when looking for the "I" who can miss this realization. It's just that there is still automatic identification with their content most of the time

YES>thougths after thoughts :-)

Look: who or what is being indentifing with their content?
How this one is experienced?

Much love and till tomorrow

Luchana

[Meri]

Hi Luchana,
Sorry for the late reply :)

Notice - is there is an idea, a belief that there should be seeing "no-self"?
Is it possible to see something which doesn't exist?

Yes there is that idea ahah it doesn't really make sense to see something that doesn't exists. But as we were saying the mind wants to put an end to this process and expects a clear realization.
In these couple of days after our meeting though, I've just remained quiet in not knowing and not pretending to understand how this process is unfolding :)

Look: who or what is being indentifing with their content?
How this one is experienced?

No one actually. There is the thought of being identified, but no one is found. It just seems that attention is completely absorbed in the content of thoughts and so it becomes more "heavy" and "solid".

Lots of love,
Mary

[Luchana]

Hi Mary,

Sorry for the late reply :)

Oh, it is ok. Sometimes it works like this.

In these couple of days after our meeting though, I've just remained quiet in not knowing and not pretending to understand how this process is unfolding :)

Beautiful, enjoy this :-)
Yes, we could say that the seeing is clear - seeing that there is only freedom, though it is not someone's :-)

What I would suggest is when you have a free time to go for a walk somewhere in nature. A small park nearby is a good option also. Walk for a while, sit somewhere and look arround. Trees, flowers, insects, birds, people's chatters, children's playing, sensations in the body, thoughts including the thought of I, Mary am sitting, looking and observing- all this is just one happening.
While siting look at these questions:

Is the main character, Mary, has any power over thoughts? Over sensations? Over sounds? Or colours and shapes around?

Or everything just happen effortlessly, including thoughts about “ Mary"?


Much love,
Luchana

[Meri]

What I would suggest is when you have a free time to go for a walk somewhere in nature. A small park nearby is a good option also. Walk for a while, sit somewhere and look arround. Trees, flowers, insects, birds, people's chatters, children's playing, sensations in the body, thoughts including the thought of I, Mary am sitting, looking and observing- all this is just one happening.

Beautiful! I will go in nature tomorrow morning :)

Love,
Mary

[Meri]

Hi Luchana,
I had such a lovely time walking in nature this afternoon. I was filled with wonder :)

Is the main character, Mary, has any power over thoughts? Over sensations? Over sounds? Or colours and shapes around?
Or everything just happen effortlessly, including thoughts about “ Mary"?

Everything happens effortlessly and spontaneously including the thoughts about a me. Thoughts about "Mary" arise and fall in a constant motion. It is the movement of life.
Everything is happening and is perceived at the same time, without the need of someone in control. Colors and shapes are seen, sound is heard, the wind and the warmth of the sun on the skin are felt without any effort. No separation is found in direct experience.

Sending love,
Mary

[Luchana]

Hi Mary,

you did a very nice looking.

Now let's investigate the seeing (how we spoke at our last meeting)

The usual belief that 'I am this body' is usually tied in with the belief that the body as a separate item is responsible or 'DOING' the senses - 'I see', 'I hear', 'I feel' etc

Let's begin with 'seeing'

Make sure you have time alone 10-15 or more minutes.

Close your eyes.
With eyes closed, you will now experience 'blackness'. There may be other things you can find going on, sure. If you are looking at a bright light, there may be a red glow. There may be sparkly bits or cloudy flecks appearing and disappearing - It really doesn't matter about the specifics.
Just to make things simple, whatever you can see with eyes closed, I'm going to refer to it as 'black' or 'blackness' just for simplicity.

1) With eyes closed, can you confirm that what is experienced is 'blackness' as I mentioned?
2) Is there anything else in 'seeing' other than 'blackness'?
3) Can what is witnessing the blackness be found?
4) Can a pair of eyes, an 'I' / 'me', a person be found that is witnessing the blackness? Or is there just 'blackness' to be found?

What do you find?

Can an INHERENT SEE-ER be found? Would anything that is suggested as the see-er, be anything other than a concept/idea/thought?

Much love,
Luchana

[Meri]

Hello :-)

1) With eyes closed, can you confirm that what is experienced is 'blackness' as I mentioned?

Yes

2) Is there anything else in 'seeing' other than 'blackness'

No in seeing only blackness is experienced

3) Can what is witnessing the blackness be found?

No!

4) Can a pair of eyes, an 'I' / 'me', a person be found that is witnessing the blackness? Or is there just 'blackness' to be found?

In blackness only blackness... no eyes no person no I :D

Can an INHERENT SEE-ER be found? Would anything that is suggested as the see-er, be anything other than a concept/idea/thought?

Nope, no see-er! The existence of see-er is dependent upon thoughts, not experience

Ready for the second part of the exercise :)

Sending love,
Mary

[Luchana]

Hi Mary,
you did a very good looking.

Here is the second part :-)


Again, address this very simply - The 'seeing' sense only for the moment.

With eyes open, a world of objects appears . . . a room . . . a computer screen etc
What you can specifically see isn't of interest here, and whatever it is, I am simply going to refer to it as 'what can be seen'.
This might be a little more tricky, but give it some consideration.

With eyes open, can you confirm that what is experienced is 'what can be seen' as I mentioned?

Is there anything else in 'seeing' other than 'what can be seen'?

Can what is witnessing 'what can be seen' be found?

Can a pair of eyes, an 'I' / 'me', a Justin be found that is witnessing 'what can be seen'? Or is there just simply 'what can be seen' to be found?

What do you find?
Can an INHERENT SEE-ER be found? Would anything that is suggested as the see-er, be anything other than a concept/idea/thought?

Much love,
Luchana

[Meri]

Hello dear Luchana :-)

With eyes open, can you confirm that what is experienced is 'what can be seen' as I mentioned?

Yes

Is there anything else in 'seeing' other than 'what can be seen'?

No, nothing else

Can what is witnessing 'what can be seen' be found?

No it can't. Without going into thoughts there is no witnessing either

Can a pair of eyes, an 'I' / 'me', a Justin be found that is witnessing 'what can be seen'? Or is there just simply 'what can be seen' to be found?

Definitely no Justin is found! Haha joking aside, no pair of eyes/witness/me is found in the seeing. In the seeing only shapes and colors

Can an INHERENT SEE-ER be found? Would anything that is suggested as the see-er, be anything other than a concept/idea/thought?

The see-er is just a concept. Nowhere to be found in the seeing

What do you find?

If I just keep my attention on the seeing without going into thought there is also a different perception of space and distance. Objects don't seem so solid and definite, dimensionality and perspective are not clear either. Overall the experience is more intimate and familiar
It is very quiet, the body is very relaxed as well.. sensations are more spacious

With love,
Mary

[Luchana]

Hi Mary,

for some reason I missed this reply..
You did a very good looking!

If I just keep my attention on the seeing without going into thought there is also a different perception of space and distance. Objects don't seem so solid and definite, dimensionality and perspective are not clear either. Overall the experience is more intimate and familiar
It is very quiet, the body is very relaxed as well.. sensations are more spacious

Yes! Wonderful.

Let's dive deeper into it, Into the notion of space and distance.

Lie on your back and relax. Have a look at the ceiling.

There is thought to be a distance between that what is thought to be known as ‘body’ and that what is labelled ‘ceiling’.
Close your eyes. Now focus on the space between body and ceiling. Take your time, breathe in and out and simply look. Keep the eyes shut. What do you notice?

Is there a body? Is there a ceiling? Is there a distance?

Much love,
Luchana

[Meri]

Hello Luchana :)

It took me a while for this one... I encountered some resistance these days, I felt restless and a little anxious trying to grasp something that was eluding me. A lot of the attention was in the mind space and the constant flow of thoughts that were largely believed and perceived as mine. This caused a lot of doubt as well... Right now I feel much calmer and it seems that the thought storm has passed hehe. It doesn't even seem important to focus on what happened actually

Is there a body? Is there a ceiling? Is there a distance?

With eyes closed there is no body nor ceiling nor distance and it feels pretty obvious. There are some sensations that I label body, body on bed, some thoughts on this task pop up. But distance is definitely not perceivable

Thank you Luchana for your patience and support. I am very grateful.
Sending love,
Mary

[Luchana]

Hi Mary,

you did a very good looking.

I encountered some resistance these days, I felt restless and a little anxious trying to grasp something that was eluding me. A lot of the attention was in the mind space and the constant flow of thoughts that were largely believed and perceived as mine. This caused a lot of doubt as well..

Yea, this is common, restlessness will appear again and again... it will need more time and for everyone is different..
Still coming here (rare) as a form of strong energy to move. I found that doing something with the body - walking, yoga or authentic movement helps.

Next time when you feel it - look for the place from which is it coming.
Can a spot from where restlessness flowing be found?

With eyes closed there is no body nor ceiling nor distance and it feels pretty obvious. There are some sensations that I label body, body on bed, some thoughts on this task pop up. But distance is definitely not perceivable

Nice:-)

Next I wish to share something with you. To reflect.

Are you familiar with Bahiya Sutta (supposedly form Buddha)? – here it is for you.

Bahyia sutta

In the seen, there is only the seen,
in the heard, there is only the heard,
in the sensed, there is only the sensed,
in the cognized, there is only the cognized.

Thus you should see that
indeed there is no thing here;
this, Bahiya, is how you should train yourself.
Since, Bahiya, there is for you

in the seen, only the seen,
in the heard, only the heard,
in the sensed, only the sensed,
in the cognized, only the cognized,

and you see that there is no thing here,
you will therefore see that
indeed there is no thing there.

As you see that there is no thing there,
you will see that
you are therefore located neither in the world of this,
nor in the world of that,
nor in any place
betwixt the two.
This alone is the end of suffering.”

Please read it several times, and check it in experience, line by line, if it’s true.
Let me know what you find.

Thank you Luchana for your patience and support. I am very grateful.

Oh, such a joy is to be able to share this with you, Mary.

Much love and till Friday,
Luchana

[Meri]

Hello Luchana,

Next time when you feel it - look for the place from which is it coming.
Can a spot from where restlessness flowing be found?

I usually feel it in the the chest, a sort of energy that accompanies some narration on why things are not ok as they are.

Thank you for sharing the Bahiya Sutta with me! I've loved it!
I’ve stayed with it for some time during the last few days. It is so beautiful, so intimate... it brings us back to the forgotten essence of our nature :)

Please read it several times, and check it in experience, line by line, if it’s true.
Let me know what you find.

In experience it is true, line by line.
A tingling in the heart space and a sense of joy and relief emerge while reading it.

Sending much love,
Mary

[Luchana]

Hi Mary,

In experience it is true, line by line.
A tingling in the heart space and a sense of joy and relief emerge while reading it.

I'm so glad that it resonates! So profound to experience that.

Like we spoke on our last meeting let' look some more questions before we go further with the final ones..

Investigate the followings one-by-one very carefully. Spend several minutes with each question.

Is there a control over ‘sensations’?

Is there a control over ‘sounds’?

Is there a control over ‘visual image/colors’?

Is there a control over ‘smells’?

Is there a control over ‘tastes’?

Is there a control over ‘thoughts’?

Is there a control over anything?


Much love,
Luchana

[Meri]

Hello Luchana,

I had written this long post explaining why I had struggle with expectations on this realization once again, and then laughed at it realizing it's just usual crap. HAha I guess expectations will go on just as they want to.
:) Sorry it took so long to reply anyway.

I meditated for quite some time on the question you last sent me and I couldn't find any controller: not in sensations, not in sounds, not in sight, not in smells, not in tastes.
I see there is no controller in thoughts as well but disidentifying from the thought process is still tricky. On one hand I notice thoughts come and go without any me in charge, without anyone arranging them in a certain order, nor making them into existence. On the other hand, whenever there is thought not immediately recognized as such, there is this simultaneous pulling or pushing on that thought that creates a movement and a following stream of thoughts... I don't really know how to express this clearly, but this motion around thought is what creates the feeling of being involved in thinking.
I am sure it is just the force of habit that makes it so compelling, but I get a little stuck here...

Sending much love,
Mary