Why wait any longer... let's start !

[Ronald]

Dear Kevin,

Sorry for not seeing your post

No problem it probably has to do with the irregularity of our work.

To answer your question below, when pausing all thoughts, it is recognized that I am the space that hears the thoughts.
It is seen that my true essence is this space that includes everything - there is no separation.

You are not the open space, because there is no you (I or me), you (I or me) is just a concept…the open space is, and the open space knows everything that is arising in it and from it.

Meditation: Sit for a while and close your eyes, and be aware of the body, feel the sensations, the vibrations and notice that they are changing all the time….then notice that something is constantly aware of these changing sensations…then see/notice if there is a distance in time/space between this awareness and the sensations……..or is it just one “thing”/ no "thing".

However, as I've stated in the past, this recognition realized after the pauses/throughout the day.

Yes, in the beginning it takes some effort to keep the focus on what is real, because the conditioned mind starts labeling directly, hearing …becomes …I hear, feeling…becomes….I feel, seeing ...becomes I see, knowing…becomes…I know.
But one moment of reflection (pausing)and there is only hearing, feeling, seeing, knowing etc…, plan some moments to break free from the hypnosis of conditioning, it’s a de-conditioning…no problem…laugh about it…relax in it….life is just a game...everything is mysteriously coming from nowhere en going to nowhere.

Please plan some breaks during the day to look deeper.

Please write me about what is seen in the meditation.

Peace,

Ronald

[Kevin49]

Hi Ronald,

A poor choice of words were used in the post below. It can be seen, during a pause that there is no "me". I pause and look on a regular basis. What never changes is the "open space" that everything appears in - the "vastness", "nothingness" or "awareness".

Peace

Kevin

[Ronald]

Hi Kevin,

It can be seen, during a pause that there is no "me".

Perfect, and whenever you are "lost in illusion" you can take a pause and see the truth.

I pause and look on a regular basis.

Excellent tool.

What never changes is the "open space" that everything appears in - the "vastness", "nothingness" or "awareness".

Everything appears in en from this knowing-nothingness.


Yes , Kevin...it's very clear…it is enfolding.


Can you tell me, what seeing this does to you in your daily life ?

Peace,
Ronald

[Kevin49]

Hi Ronald,

Can you tell me, what seeing this does to you in your daily life ?

This "seeing" actually does a few things for me in my daily life. It brings me back to the present moment, it makes me realize how ridiculous some of my thoughts are and it makes me feel much calmer. It almost makes me feel like I should stop utilizing my mind sometimes because recognize how off base my is most of the time. Also, the "imaginary me" fades.

Thanks

Peace

Kevin

[Ronald]

Hi Kevin,

This "seeing" actually does a few things for me in my daily life. It brings me back to the present moment, it makes me realize how ridiculous some of my thoughts are and it makes me feel much calmer.

Sounds very good….

It almost makes me feel like I should stop utilizing my mind sometimes because recognize how off base my is most of the time.

The mind is a good servant but a bad master.

Even the thought of a not existing I that should stop utilizing his mind, is one of the upcoming products of the mind, it comes and goes automatically as everything else.

Also, the "imaginary me" fades.

Yes, like a wave falling back into the ocean.

Are there any questions?


Peace

Ronald

[Kevin49]

Hi Ronald,

Are there any questions?

I guess my only question is: Is the only thing left to do ( or not to do) is to continuously come back to the "seeing that there is no me/ come back to clarity/ notice where everything arises from and never changes as often as possible?

Thanks

Peace

Kevin

[Ronald]

Hi Kevin,

I guess my only question is: Is the only thing left to do ( or not to do) is to continuously come back to the "seeing that there is no me/ come back to clarity/ notice where everything arises from and never changes as often as possible?

Use whatever is helping you to stay clear.

When you see Santa you know that he appears to be someone he isn’t, and you can still enjoy the story, the emotions, the childhood memories, the reaction of the children, the presents etc.

The same with all appearances,including the body,the thoughts, you see, feel, smell, hear them but you have seen that there is one source, although they look real they are empty… enjoy the miracle of life.You can relax because everything is exactly as it should be………no mistakes.

When you feel ready for the 5 questions then let me know.

Enjoy

Ronald

[Kevin49]

Hi Ronald,

I could answer the 5 questions from the perspective of "what I see when I look".

I'm not sure if that would be sufficient.

Hope you're well.

Peace

Kevin

[Ronald]

Hi Kevin,

I could answer the 5 questions from the perspective of "what I see when I look".

Can you describe to me what the alternative perspective would be and which one of the two would that be the true or a false perspective, knowing that there is just one truth?

Hope you're well.

Peace

Ronald

[Kevin49]

Hi Ronald,

The "true perspective" is recognized when thoughts are watched and it is realized that the thoughts are not really a separate person, they're just thoughts. When the thoughts are watched or noticed, they eventually dissipate - and all that is left is space/awareness/isness. There is no separate person to be found when there is no thoughts. What notices the thoughts (and includes the thoughts) is somewhat indescribable - it is "everything. One cannot see it or look at it - because we are all it.

The "false perspective" arises when the above is forgotten and one identifies with thoughts and mistakenly believes that thoughts (and bodies) are who they are.

It is very hard to stay with and remember the true perspective and not identify with the false perspective - it seems as thought it must be continuously remembered and recognized.

Peace

Kevin

[Ronald]

Hi Kevin,

The "true perspective" is recognized when thoughts are watched and it is realized that the thoughts are not really a separate person, they're just thoughts. When the thoughts are watched or noticed, they eventually dissipate - and all that is left is space/awareness/isness.

Sounds clear.

There is no separate person to be found when there is no thoughts.

Is there a separate person or I to be found when there are thoughts or are there just thoughts with a certain content?
What about the thought; I am a pink Elephant, does that make you a pink Elephant?

What notices the thoughts (and includes the thoughts) is somewhat indescribable - it is "everything. One cannot see it or look at it - because we are all it.

Yes indescribable, everything is appearing in it and from it and is known by this open space of knowing.

Experiment: Listen to a sound, is there any distance between the sound and that what hears the sound? Or is there just hearing? Is there first a sound and then something that hears the sound or are they interwoven, appearing as one thing?

The "false perspective" arises when the above is forgotten and one identifies with thoughts and mistakenly believes that thoughts (and bodies) are who they are.

Yes, that is the main cause of suffering.
But something is aware of this misidentification or not?

It is very hard to stay with and remember the true perspective and not identify with the false perspective - it seems as thought it must be continuously remembered and recognized.

Maybe the suffering and confusion will be the wake up call to really see what is going on and to remember who you really are?

We all play the I role during the day especially in communicating with others, but it’s just a role, and like an actor we know it’s just a role. We can let go of it whenever we want, because the truth of our existence is seen.

You are doing fine I notice the change in your answers, just keep on looking, you have seen it, trust it.

Could it be that there are certain expectations, about how it is when the Gate has been passed, that are blocking the clear view?

Hope to hear from you…
Peace, to you.

Ronald

[Kevin49]

Hi Ronald,

Once again, a poor choice of words (below).

There is no separate person to be found when there is no thoughts.

There's also no separate person when there are thoughts present - a "false" perspective of a self exists when thoughts are incorrectly interpreted as "who you are" or when it is believed that thoughts are "owned" by a self.

Experiment: Listen to a sound, is there any distance between the sound and that what hears the sound? Or is there just hearing? Is there first a sound and then something that hears the sound or are they interwoven, appearing as one thing?

Sound and hearing just happen - the mind judges the distance of the sound and provides an interpretation of the sound based on the sense of hearing.

But something is aware of this misidentification or not?

Yes something is aware of this misidentifictaion, however, there are times when thoughts are mistakenly "believed in" and hinders/blocks the awareness. The awareness is still there, it is just being hindered by the false belief of the thought in that particular moment.

Could it be that there are certain expectations, about how it is when the Gate has been passed, that are blocking the clear view?

Possibly, however, expectations have changed. The current expectation is that there won't be any (or as much) falling back into the "false perspective" - there will be a stronger clarification. When reading the forum, it seems there are many posters in "Red or Blue" who are requesting clarification and help with seeing the truth more clearly.

Peace,

Kevin

[Ronald]

Dear Kevin,

To go through the Gateless Gate,two things should be seen.

First:
There has never been an I, there is no I and there will never be an I.
The I we are using is just a conditioned illusion, a means to communicate.

Second: There is no seer, witnesser, looker, experiencer, there is just seeing, witnessing, looking, experiencing. There is just an open space which knows everything that is arising in it and from it.

When you see this clearly, there will be a different perspective in life, and this can unfold and unfold.....

As you have seen on the forum, sometimes the conditioning takes over, this also happens automatically. There is no doer or undoer.

But one thing doesn’t change, that’s the open space which knows everything that is arising in it and from it.

Yes something is aware of this misidentifictaion, however, there are times when thoughts are mistakenly "believed in" and hinders/blocks the awareness. The awareness is still there, it is just being hindered by the false belief of the thought in that particular moment.

Just being aware of what is going on false or true, means that awareness is there.

You can find the 5 questions on your thread, look at them , you don’t have to answer them, just look where you find it difficult to answer them.

I hear from you,Peace,

Ronald

[Kevin49]

Hi Ronald,

First:
There has never been an I, there is no I and there will never be an I.
The I we are using is just a conditioned illusion, a means to communicate.

Second: There is no seer, witnesser, looker, experiencer, there is just seeing, witnessing, looking, experiencing. There is just an open space which knows everything that is arising in it and from it.

All of this is recognized when there is a pause, an investigation or taking a look.

As you have seen on the forum, sometimes the conditioning takes over, this also happens automatically. There is no doer or undoer.

This is the issue - there is 49 years of conditioning to overcome. The expectation is that once and for all, the "true perspective" will "stick" at some point and the false perspective will drop - the "illusion" will not be "believed".. There is currently a 90 percent "false perspective/believed in illusion" to a 10% "true perspective". Most authors/teachers regarding this subject suggest "remembering or spending time" in the "true perspective" as often as possible in order for a transition to occur. One good look doesn't seem to do the trick (as suggested by this site). It may, however, work very well for others.

I'll dig up those questions and give it another shot within the next 5 days.

Take care.

Peace,

Kevin

[Ronald]

Hi Kevin,

Good I hear from you.

Peace,

Ronald