Show me the truth

[poppyseed]

Hi Meredith
Yes, yes, and yes!!! It seems like you are experiencing a shift! Awesome!
So, let’s continue with the exploration.
Exercise:
1. Sit comfortably on a chair. Close your eyes. Lift your leg and pay attention to the sensation of “leg lifted”
2. Open your eyes and now pay attention to the sight of the leg only.
3. While looking at the leg, pay attention to the sensation of the leg.
Do sight and sensation appear simultaneously?
Do they appear separately?
Do they depend on each other?
Is there a link between them?
You can do a similar exercise while you are watching a movie and explore the relationship between sound and sight. You can also explore sensation and taste of eating chocolate (yum!)
Take your time and enjoy!
Love
R

[Meredith57]

Just checking in - not with answers yet. I didn't get a chance to really practice the exercise until this afternoon. I'll check back in tomorrow with some answers. :)

[Meredith57]

I have really struggled with this exercise, but I’m going to do my best to tell you what I saw.

“Do sight and sensation appear simultaneously?”

Yes, there was no detection of one appearing before the other.

“Do they appear separately?”

When looking and feeling they are not appearing as separate.

“Do they depend on each other?”

I couldn’t see they were dependent on each other.

“Is there a link between them?”

There is knowing of them both.

I await your comments and guidance.

Thank you!

[poppyseed]

Hi Meredith
Great looking! I didn’t offer many hints this time so you can explore for yourself. What did you struggle with exactly?

Yes, there was no detection of one appearing before the other.
When looking and feeling they are not appearing as separate.
I couldn’t see they were dependent on each other.

Excellent! We don’t experience our senses individually. Rather, these are different aspects of experience. Mind tells us that our senses are separate streams of information. We see with our eyes, hear with our ears, feel with our skin, smell with our nose, taste with our tongue. In DE, though, it is seen as a one experience. Senses affect each other. Although speech is perceived through the ears, what we see can change what we hear. In this video, a man produces the same syllable over and over again. If you watch his mouth, you’ll hear the syllable “fah,” but if you look away, you’ll hear “bah.” Although your ears hear “bah,” your eyes see “fah”. This phenomenon is known as the McGurk effect. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2k8fHR9jKVM )
Anyway, the point of this exercise was to notice the totality of experience.

There is knowing of them both.

Is the knowing of each of them separate or it’s knowing of seeing_hearing_tasting_sensing_smelling_thinking / experience?
At this point, it will be a good DE exercise to get out for an actual walk in nature and observe interconnectedness. See how ALL is moving interdependently, including thinking and the senses. Hold these questions in mind:
Is there anything that is separate from everything else?
Is there a border that divides “me” and “my body” from everything else, or is it just a thought? Is that interdependent movement outside of you? Is there an “inside” and an “outside”?
Is there an owner of being?
Are there others? Is there an “I” in others?
Is there a “you”?
Love
R

[Meredith57]

OK I see where I was struggling - I couldn't even articulate it yesterday (why I was struggling) - but I see now I was trying to avoid using the word "experience". I got it into my head that if I said, "when experiencing sound and sight it is all one experience and that the more senses involved the experience changes," then I wouldn't be experiencing directly - my own mental block I had to work through.

I'll continue with the new exercises throughout tomorrow - taking my time a bit with them now that I have removed the struggle - I'm glad you asked me more about that.

Thank you!

[poppyseed]

Hey
There are no right and wrong answers - there is only what rings true at the moment. Don't be afraid to use whatever language that comes handy in describing your experience. What I was trying to discourage was the use of labels that don't point to anything in DE.
Take as much time as you need

Love
R

[Meredith57]

Thank you for that. :)

I did have to work most of today and am just reviewing again the exercises and seeing. I should have something to report back tomorrow.

So this was just checking in to let you know I'm here - still going.

Thank you!

[Meredith57]

“Is the knowing of each of them separate or it’s knowing of seeing_hearing_tasting_sensing_smelling_thinking / experience?”

Not knowing as separate - just that there is knowing/experiencing seeing, hearing, tasting - I wouldn’t describe the relationship as dependent, and yet they are interdependent as they give a different experience as each sense is added on to create a new experience. And now I am seeing it as dependent - if I am looking at the experience of seeing, hearing, feeling at the same time then each is dependent upon the other to create the combined experience. Does that make sense?

“Is there anything that is separate from everything else? “

There is absolutely nothing that is separate - I can’t see that anything is discreet and unaffected - it’s all connected - as if the whole world and everything in it is a fish tank - we’re all in it - if I flutter my little fin then a ripple is happening through the whole fish tank.

“Is there a border that divides “me” and “my body” from everything else, or is it just a thought?”

It’s just a thought. As with my answer above, there is no line, no border, no edge to “my body” and space, “my body” and sound, “my body” and seeing - it’s all in the same fish bowl.

“Is that interdependent movement outside of you?”

No, it is not outside of “me.” “I” am a part of the interdependence.

“Is there an “inside” and an “outside”?”

No, these are just labels we use for convenience. And while I’m using the fish bowl analogy above - I wouldn’t say there is an outside of the fish bowl either.

“Is there an owner of being?”

There is no owner of being, there is just activity, experiencing. Like the previous exercise we did last week - realizing no one is making the decisions/choices - there is no entity, nothing solid there. I can’t say I don’t forget this but whenever I remember to look for it (usually because I’m starting to believe again something is there) the experience instantly changes - there is spaciousness and lightness - no thing! :) Happy face because while there is no thing, there is a feeling of peace. And every time that feeling of space, lightness, and peace is there. As though I’ve just set down a heavy load (of imaginary “me”).

“Are there others? Is there an “I” in others?”

No others - no I’s in others either. There is experiencing (seeing, thinking, hearing…) in these temporary body suits. No “I”, but each experience slightly different - while completely interconnected/interdependent.

There is a definite aware-ing ) of layers (dare I say “stories”) being removed, and it feels lighter.

Thank you!

[poppyseed]

Hi Meredith
I can see you enjoyed the last exercise. Now to some clarifying questions…

I can’t say I don’t forget this but whenever I remember to look for it (usually because I’m starting to believe again something is there) the experience instantly changes - there is spaciousness and lightness - no thing! :)

Thoughts say many things, which are not necessarily true, as you have seen! Next time you watch a movie, notice how you get sucked into the story; how emotions come up and judgements appear. Then all of a sudden, there is like a flip back to the room - as if focus zooms out. Observe how it happens. At which point is there a decision to snap out? Is there one that makes that decision or does it simply happen, effortlessly? Is it different from being sucked into mind movies/ getting lost in thought? If there is nobody to believe, is ”believing in the story” actually happening or is it a story about “believing in the story” /more thought content?

if I flutter my little fin then a ripple is happening through the whole fish tank… “I” am a part of the interdependence.

If there is no separate “I” (no reference point) how can cause and effect be observed? Does interdependence exist outside of thought?

No others - no I’s in others either. There is experiencing (seeing, thinking, hearing…) in these temporary body suits. No “I”, but each experience slightly different - while completely interconnected/interdependent.

Is that what you actually see when you LOOK at others or is it just an assumption/thought content. How are “others” seen in DE? How does that feel?
Love
R

[Meredith57]

“Thoughts say many things, which are not necessarily true, as you have seen! Next time you watch a movie, notice how you get sucked into the story; how emotions come up and judgements appear. Then all of a sudden, there is like a flip back to the room - as if focus zooms out. Observe how it happens.”

I’m going to work with the first exercise more - to see what is actually happening when I zoom back out again - I hadn’t considered before how or what was happening when I zoomed back out - just that it happened - and it was a relief (it’s always a relief!). Will check into that more.

“If there is no separate “I” (no reference point) how can cause and effect be observed? Does interdependence exist outside of thought?”

While I was going to write a reply about how something (not I - but something) is observing cause and effect because it is real (hmmm??) - after rereading the question a few more times, now I’m stopped in my tracks. Does it exist outside of thought? Holy cow - in a good holy cow kind of way. I can’t explain right now but the question put this way is pointing to something that hadn’t been considered before. Will report back on this too.

“Is that what you actually see when you LOOK at others or is it just an assumption/thought content. How are “others” seen in DE? How does that feel?”

Yes, when zoomed out (I like the way you put that), there is seeing no "I" in others. Strong possibility of a thought being layered in there too though, will observe more on that. The feeling is more relaxed when seeing others like this - it is much easier being around others, not taking any of it so seriously because there is no “I” to worry about with me, and there is no “I” to try and please in them.

Excellent questions, and thank you for clarifying my answers, as there are still many assumptions being made..

I will keep going with all of these.

Thank you!!!

[Meredith57]

“Then all of a sudden, there is like a flip back to the room - as if focus zooms out. Observe how it happens. At which point is there a decision to snap out? Is there one that makes that decision or does it simply happen, effortlessly? Is it different from being sucked into mind movies/ getting lost in thought? If there is nobody to believe, is ”believing in the story” actually happening or is it a story about “believing in the story” /more thought content?”

Like all choices/decisions - not made by “me”, it just happens - one moment there is a believing the movie is real - and “I’m” the character feeling the same viewpoint, the fear, the tension - and then the next moment there is remembering it is just a movie and the tension disappears, the thought/belief “I” was the character falls away.

No different to the story of “me” and yet, there are consequences in the story of me that aren’t in the movie. At the risk of telling a story, I need some help understanding this/seeing this.

Let’s say I lost all my clients, and had no income - I would suggest that couldn’t happen in the movie, or at least it wouldn’t affect me in “reality” - but is it not still just a movie - in the movie all the clients are lost and I believe there is someone there it is happening to, in the story of me if I lost all my clients, part of me would say.- see it’s really happening, but how is that really different? Because there is no “me” this is happening to. It’s like a movie, in that things are happening, choices are made, plot lines are played out - but there is no “me” it is really happening to. There could potentially be the argument, well then why not just jump in front of a moving car if there is no “me?” and Why not? Does it matter? Here again the belief coming in that “I” would be making this choice, that “I” am coming to this point of nihilism imagining well then what the hell matters? But “I’m” not doing that. I’m not choosing any of this. There is experiencing “the experience of Meredith,” the experience happening from this vantage point. But Meredith isn’t going to decide to make the fatal decision to jump in front of a car - that’s just a way of getting the belief of Meredith to come back into view. Don’t go so far down the rabbit hole - you’ve now got to come back to some kind of reality. But is it reality? What is reality? Who’s typing these words? Who’s trying to see this? Who wants to know? Who wants to send what’s been written so far to Rali to get his guidance? How is “Meredith” different than the character in the movie?

Since writing above - the last couple of hours stunned into silence, could barely move with the realizing that “this” isn’t at all what I thought it was, nor is “this.” Not exactly a relief, or relaxing as before - when the zooming out took place - going from dream to remembering not being in dream. The zooming is way bigger, a little unnerving, disturbing, but still OK. Just not what I thought it was going to be. It’s kind of like seeing but not being able to describe what is being seen. Just that it’s radically different than what I thought. Everything is appearing more vivid, sights, sounds, but also different - not sure how it’s different but it is. There is a feeling of waking in the dream but holy fuck this is not a cartoon waking from the dream, fantasy, rainbows and puppy dogs…

Will share more tomorrow. Still being with this, exploring.

[poppyseed]

Hey
Take your time with these. Just, when you LOOK at others, do it in terms of the five senses - colors, sound, smell, taste :), sensation, and labels ;). You can't actually see if there's an "I" in others or not (the same way you can't experience their thoughts) - your experience of others is all about your perceptions, the rest is assumptions based on your own experience. Spend some more time with this as well, please.
Love
R

[poppyseed]

Hey
Only I posted I noticed that you have posted again...

Haven’t we all been there?! Yes of course once the story has started, there will be causes and effects and a character who suffers the effects, but seeing that the character is an illusion, changes the story a tiny bit. Zooming out allows the “big picture” to be seen – things are not personal, they just happen and it’s only thought which characterises them as “good” or “bad”, based on previous thoughts. Thoughts about jumping in front of a car are just that – thoughts. Things will continue to happen on their own as before; the “I” will continue to be an illusion as before. You are seeing it already, just the mind says no; it’s like being used to one thing and expecting that to change. Life is expressing itself through us – like seeing the same object from different points of view :). Good experiences, bad experiences are only experiences if they are seen as the” same taste”. It takes time for the “I” thoughts to settle. It will start to loosen up and eventually, in time, their effect will diminish. What actually changes in time is the description of what is happening – the mind becomes a better servant. It almost seems like thoughts are going through the five grieving stages (with the “death” of the “I”)- denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance :). It’s OK as long as thoughts are seen for what they are – fiction. Stepping in and out of story is part of the dance of life. All is included. Ask yourself - can life go on without the story?

[Meredith57]

Things have settled down a bit. I don’t know if it’s helpful or not to show you the rantings of my writings - let me know. I usually edit my responses for you the next day but yesterday was another one of those mind blowing moments (perhaps better said Meredith obliterating moments). There was just this impulse to send it to you. Of course, “I’m” not really sending it to you anyway! I’m just seeing this all happen - it’s crazy! And it’s hilarious, and so many other things, I don’t know what else to say about it.

Rali, I have had many, many insights over my 25 years of spiritual practice (story alert! Yes, but just sharing) but over these past few weeks a much deeper seeing of what’s really happening. Not looking through the lens of what I think is supposed to happen, but really seeing. It’s interesting also as I haven’t watched or read any spiritual teachings since we began and I find that kind of liberating/freeing (keep in mind though I am a Meditation Teacher, so I am still teaching!).

I do have a lot of work to do today - a presentation later - so I’m going to respond more to your specific questions tomorrow.

Thank you so so much for guiding me Rali. This has been the most wonderful gift to have someone walking me through these steps. I wouldn’t have been ready for this 10 years ago- definitely not 20 years ago - but I’m ready now, and your guidance is perfect for me. From the bottom of my heart thank you so so much.

But in short to your last question,

Can life go on without the story?

Yes, it can, it does, and mind you it's still there, but it's fading. More tomorrow!

With gratitude,
Meredith

[poppyseed]

Hi Meredith
It's really my pleasure guiding you!
Like I said earlier, there are no right and wrong answers. It would be helpful to know what you are going through - rantings or whatever. This process is entirely for your benefit - to help you where you are stuck.
It's really great that your seeking is diminishing as well! I'm looking forward to your answers but don't rush. Life happens :)

Love
R