Requesting a guide.

[IainB]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?

The character Iain exists solely within the content of thought however from a young age was believed to have its own separate existence. This character needs to be kept safe, must navigate its way as best it can through an external world, and has some control over the experiences belonging to me. "I" am here, standing separate from life. Effective guiding can trigger a shift in this network of belief.

What are you looking for at LU?

I was guided previously however continued seeking after the guiding process. Belief continued that I had some control over life as it unfolded, that past decision making had led to experience now, that there was a separate person here that could be advantaged or disadvantaged. I wish to be guided again to see through this.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?

I believe participation in the guiding process can allow beliefs to be questioned at a core level and it be known that there is no one here who may influence life as it is now. For guiding to work it's important to be completely honest and committed, and to really throw yourself open to the work of the guide, to be willing to genuinely question everything about life as it unfolds here.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?

Some buddhism when young. Later conventional and more radical psychological modalities, shamanic medicine, LU, contact with non duality sharers.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
11.5

[Vivien]

Hi IanB,

I might be able to help with guiding, if you are still interested.

Welcome back :)

As you said, complete honesty and commitment is essential part of the guiding process.

So I ask you to write regularly, please don't leave out several days without replying. Try to write every day, or every other day. If for some reason that's not possible, then please let me know. Are you OK with this?

Are you ready to start?

Belief continued that I had some control over life as it unfolded

Please spend a whole day and closely investigate what is it that you have control over?
what is it that you can actually control?

Have a nice day,
Vivien

[IainB]

Hi Vivian,

You've been superb in this space called LU. Thank you for picking things up with me.

Are you OK with this?

I sure am.

Please spend a whole day and closely investigate what is it that you have control over?

What is it that you can actually control?

The clock starts now. Speak in 24 hours.

I'm subscribed but not getting notifications, not really an issue. I hope you are getting notifications.

With love, Ian

[Vivien]

Hi Ian,

Yes, I'm getting notifications. When you reply, there is a box that needs to be ticked for notifications. Please check if it's ticked.

Love,
Vivien

[IainB]

Hi Vivian,

Please spend a whole day and closely investigate what is it that you have control over?
what is it that you can actually control?

There was lots of focus on this then it fell away late in the day as I launched into a carpentry project after work (without choice). I have patterns of over working, over activity, excercise and alcohol to zone out (doesn't matter).

Earlier I wrote down many things I have no control over but of course the direction was to identify that where there is control. Control by me.

I woke in the middle of the night and had a brief visceral fear that to know no separate self may equate to insanity with maybe some suicidal ideation and a fear of a nothingness / void I saw at the centre of my being. I briefly saw a 'self preservation' resistance present. I overcame sleepyness to make a note of this otherwise it would likely have faded and been disregarded. I'm mentaly healthy and good to continue of course.

I will continue into a further day of closely investigating what is it that I have control over until you come in and guide me otherwise. I don't just want to type out an easy obvious answer. I want to keep looking.

Love and gratitude.

[Vivien]

Thanks for your update.

Yes, please continue looking. Find the things that you have control over. Not what you don't have, but what you have.

If seeing that there is no separate self meant insanity, then many people must be insane. :) Including me, and your previous guide, and Ilona, and all the teachers you can find.

Look, there is already no separate self in control, whether you are aware of this fact or not. It's like the Earth is not flat, whether one knows or not. Saying that those who know that the Earth is not flat are insane... :) well, those say that who believes that the Earth is flat. But if you consider it, who is more 'insane', or more out of touch with reality?

Have a nice day,
V

[IainB]

Please spend a whole day and closely investigate what is it that you have control over?
what is it that you can actually control?

I move into day three of this now. I'm determined to find this for you. It may not appear in thought. It may not be possible to communicate it if and when found and so forth, but I will continue to try.

Regarding insanity and so forth.

I know you are right, that belief in a separate self is akin to a kind of psychosis, and not the other way round.

The fear I encountered was quite visceral, dark and perhaps not responsive to such civilised reasonings. Nonetheless I will remember and use this when it is encountered again. I may simply step into it.

I also like the flat earther analogy, but use it in a different way: to describe the active moving away from all the cultural ignorance that fetishises and celebrates the separate self and makes it taboo to enquire into it makes one a kind of flat earther, at odds with convention.

Of course here we are looking through the falsity of one particular belief, self, that has close ties to beliefs in time and control, and no new beliefs are being picked up as alternatives.

Anyway, lots of love.

[Vivien]

Fear is important because fear can be a hindrance of going further. But actually, fear is nothing more than a protective mechanism, and it does its job well. There is a belief, a story somewhere about pain or negative consequences to seeing the illusion of the self. And the fear tries to protect you from these supposed negative consequences. So let’s find out what this story is about and see if they are real threats or not.

What I’d like you to do is to investigate this fear. Examine it closely. Feel it. Don’t try to fix it or solve it, just sit with it.
Ask the fear as if it were a some kind of entity:

What do you want to protect me from?
What is the ‘negative’ story, what would happen if the illusion of the self is seen through?

Observe what visual thoughts and stories come up ‘justifying’ its right to fear.

If you ignore the stories (thoughts) and visual thoughts what is BEHIND the fear?

So whenever the fear or any resistance come up, you can use this kind of investigation. Yes, rationalization usually doesn't cut through, but looking at it, allowing it, and getting conscious of the unconscious or semi-conscious story around can help a lot.

Vivien

[IainB]

What do you want to protect me from?
What is the ‘negative’ story, what would happen if the illusion of the self is seen through?

I very much want to do this work on fear and hope you may give me some days on it.

The new visceral fear I briefly encountered hasn't returned. In general, there is little fear, but I still wish to use what arises for looking here.

The visual thoughts and stories that come up to justify are to do with a loss of the holding together of life, that life may simply unfold and I no longer be here in the driving seat, that the 'comfortable / ok' life I have may be lost as the unknown is entered.

I feel I can do more here and will continue.

With thanks, Iain

[Vivien]

All right, keep me updated how it goes.

[IainB]

Thank you for letting me remain here for a time Vivian.

I'll post now, as I've very busy over the next few days with a number of things coming up that may happen.

That's followed by two weeks when I will have a lot of free time to devote to this.

That 'delight in being busy' and a fear of the loss or shift away from 'Ian's busy life' comes up in fear actually.

There is more, and I will look and capture this.

Love, Iain

[IainB]

Hi Vivian,

I continue with the guidance, and check in at this juncture.

What do you want to protect me from?
What is the ‘negative’ story, what would happen if the illusion of the self is seen through?

I found the ‘negative’ story that would happen if the illusion of the self is seen through.

The fear was simply about being trapped 'as' Ian, or 'in' Ian. That what I am is here, and will be extinguished when Ian is over.

Also that this ordinary life is it. That there is nothing to get and no where to get to. (Of course, this is true, but not something to be fearful of).

This is reminiscent of an experience I had with bufo alvaris - the direct encountering of my biggest fear as being trapped as Ian forever.

I continue, but there is some good stuff here.

[Vivien]

That what I am is here, and will be extinguished when Ian is over.

What makes you think that when the self is seen through, Ian will be over? Do you expect Ian to disappear?

It's quite common to expect that, but it's not like that. Ian will not disappear. Rather it will be seen for what it is, just a fictionary character, existing only as a thought story, but not in reality. But it doesn't mean that thoughts of Ian will stop appearing.

It's like expecting a mirage in a dessert to disappear after realizing that it's not water but mirage. But will it? Or you will be just be able to see it again and again that in spite there being a SEEMING water there is no actual water, since it's just the play of light. Just as Ian is a 'play of thought'. But will the mirage be gone? Highly unlikely.

[IainB]

Thank you for looking into this with me.

what I am is here, and will be extinguished when Ian is over.

What makes you think that when the self is seen through, Ian will be over? Do you expect Ian to disappear?

I think this was more about a fear of death, and that death will mean game over (for me, and the imagined character Ian that's known). Perhaps it will. What we are is life now, so any story of what may or may not be after death is of course just that, a story.

Of course, all the thoughts about Ian, his preferances, memories, likes, dislikes, neurosis, back-story, highs, lows, the 'unique' life that unfolds will continue to unfold. The 'role' of Ian will go on unabated. A friend uses the analogy of 'remembering' you are simply a character in a play (and so fully enjoy living it out, and joyfully accept the Academy Award for being 'you'!

Ian will not disappear. Rather it will be seen for what it is, just a fictionary character, existing only as a thought story, but not in reality. But it doesn't mean that thoughts of Ian will stop appearing.

You mean to say just as batman or santa exists solely within a sequence of thought images, the character Ian that is known so 'stickily' in thought and would would seem to have been so deeply lived out has exactly the same level or 'real-ness'? I love looking at santa/batman in thought, then in slides a thought image of Ian, and it is known how both are a series of believed in thought stories (and not a shred more).

It's hard for me to know that all aspects of Ian are 100% arbitrary. They were never chosen, all experiences and characteristics simply came, nothing was ever done by a doer here. There seems to have been so much discomfort, worry, effort and responsibility about Ian's life going back decades.

A rich exploration x

[Vivien]

The thing is that it cannot be know in advance how it will be. Why? Because all expectations come on behalf of a separate self, who is always in a search for peace, happiness, lack of fear and suffering. We simply cannot imagine it, since we cannot step outside from the separate self’s perspective. We can only imagine it within the dream of me. The illusionary me is simply unable to imagine how it would be if it were discovered to be just a fictional character and not a reality. It can only imagine what it wants for itself.

They were never chosen, all experiences and characteristics simply came, nothing was ever done by a doer here. There seems to have been so much discomfort, worry, effort and responsibility about Ian's life going back decades.

When there is any form of suffering (or any form of discontent), it’s not just because there is a belief in a self. Suffering happens when certain stimuli poke or touch our ‘wounds inside’. Those wounds are not a person/self. The self is just an added narrative.

The personality stays almost completely intact when the self is seen through (at least at the beginning). All the conditionings from childhood, all the traumas, all the gathered emotional pains won’t dissolve in an instant just because the self is seen through. These most likely will stay, however, they are much more accessible and easier to work with after seeing through the illusion. This is just the first step, just the beginning, and not the end. But it is the beginning of the falling away of conditionings, which can last until the end of the organism.

There are many beliefs holding together the emotional reactions. These all have roots in childhood, as emotional wounds, what needs to be dealt with separately.

Is this fear thing still strong, and preventing looking the 'real stuff'.... like what is it that you are in control of?

Do you feel that you need to spend more time with fear, or are you ready to go back to the original questions?